It will be done away with, but the dark nighttime was part of the very good original creation. Just as the sea was very good, yet done away with in the new heavens and earth.
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? - Gen 1:31
- Thread starter percho
- Start date
It will be done away with, but the dark nighttime was part of the very good original creation. Just as the sea was very good, yet done away with in the new heavens and earth.
timtofly
Well-Known Member
Last time I looked darkness begins in the evening. Verses 1-2 was the foundation of the whole universe. Everything after that is manipulation of the universe. Light came first, not separation. Logically it went creation of the universe. Light, then separation of light and darkness. Then evening and the morning were the first day.
Logically the day light came before the night darkness, yet the darkness of night came first. Now you can say that it was dark first by default. But God says that the separation came after the light, and God stepped back for a few seconds admiring that the light was good. How can God admire the light, before the separation?
Is it wrong to say light came before the first evening? Even if just for a few seconds, while God admired His own light? Or should we say light happened after 12 hours of darkness?
I'm not sure the point you're making, but I do believe the day is first, then the night. I know the jews had a different idea, but I think they misinterpreted Genesis in this regard.
The reason evening is motioned before morning is because evening marks the end of the day, while morning marks the end of the night. Thus you have day>evening>night>morning.
timtofly
Well-Known Member
In a fallen world, maybe.
God declares a perfect world. The evening from 6 pm to 6 am, was perfect darkness. The morning from 6am to 6pm, was perfect light. It was God who declared that, not any human with limited understanding.
God says the day started at 6pm and ended 6pm, 24 hours later. It is foolish to attempt any other interpretation or human excuse that God was wrong.
37818
Well-Known Member
Day 3 is after the beginning Genesis 1:1-2, Hebrews 1:2, ". . . Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands. . . ." citing the Psalms 102:25, ". . . Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. . . ."
Impossible. Sailhamer tried to make this case, as did other gap theorists, but they failed.
Noticed the heavens and earth sandwich that day 3 falls within. It's clear the creation of the heavens and earth starts in verse one and ends after day 6 in verse 2:1. Everything in-between is an account of the process of the creation verse 1 mentions.
Gen. 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
Gen. 1:3 Then God said, “Let there be light”….
Gen. 1:6 Then God said, “Let there be a firmament….
Gen. 1:9 Then God said, “Let the waters under the heavens…let the dry land appear”….
Gen. 1:11 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth grass….”
Gen. 1:14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament….
Gen. 1:20 Then God said, “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures,….let birds fly above….
Gen. 1:24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature….
Gen. 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image….
Gen. 1:31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good….
Gen. 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished.
Gen. 1:3 Then God said, “Let there be light”….
Gen. 1:6 Then God said, “Let there be a firmament….
Gen. 1:9 Then God said, “Let the waters under the heavens…let the dry land appear”….
Gen. 1:11 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth grass….”
Gen. 1:14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament….
Gen. 1:20 Then God said, “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures,….let birds fly above….
Gen. 1:24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature….
Gen. 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image….
Gen. 1:31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good….
Gen. 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished.
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God didn't say this. He said evening morning, which means close of the day, close of the night. By mentioning the close of the day first, he put day before night.
day>evening>night>morning
37818
Well-Known Member
Genesis 1:1-2. Psalms 102:2. go together. Is what it says, Hebrews 1:10. Plain and simple.Impossible. Sailhamer tried to make this case, as did other gap theorists, but they failed.
Noticed the heavens and earth sandwich that day 3 falls within. It's clear the creation of the heavens and earth starts in verse one and ends after day 6 in verse 2:1. Everything in-between is an account of the process of the creation verse 1 mentions.
Gen. 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
Gen. 1:3 Then God said, “Let there be light”….
Gen. 1:6 Then God said, “Let there be a firmament….
Gen. 1:9 Then God said, “Let the waters under the heavens…let the dry land appear”….
Gen. 1:11 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth grass….”
Gen. 1:14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament….
Gen. 1:20 Then God said, “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures,….let birds fly above….
Gen. 1:24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature….
Gen. 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image….
Gen. 1:31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good….
Gen. 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished.
What's plain and simple is that God created the heavens and rested when they were completed after day 6.
BTW, is it Sailhamer's gap theory you're advocating, or the traditional gap theory?
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And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. Gen 2 first part.
How dark is that darkness? Is it present before the light? Just what was the light? IMHO it was the Word of God, not the sun, now consider and I will again use Barnes and show why I believe him to be wrong.
Barnes on John 11:9,10
Twelve hours - The Jews divided the day from sunrise to sunset into twelve equal parts. A similar illustration our Saviour uses in John 9:4-5. See the notes at that place.
If any man walk - If any man travels. The illustration here is taken from a traveler. The conversation was respecting a journey into Judea, and our Lord, as was his custom, took the illustration from the case before him.
He stumbleth not - He is able, having light, to make his journey safely. He sees the obstacles or dangers and can avoid them.
The light of this world - The light by which the world is illuminated that is, the light of the sun.
In the night - In darkness he is unable to see danger or obstacles, and to avoid them. His journey is unsafe and perilous, or, in other words, it is not a proper time to travel.
No light in him - He sees no light. It is dark; his eyes admit no light within him to direct his way. This description is figurative, and it is difficult to fix the meaning. Probably the intention was the following:
1.Jesus meant to say that there was an allotted or appointed time for him to live and do his Father‘s will, represented here by the 12 hours of the day.
2.Though his life was nearly spent, yet it was not entirely; a remnant of it was left.
3.A traveler journeyed on until night. It was as proper for him to travel the twelfth hour as any other.
4.So it was proper for Jesus to labor until the close. It was the proper time for him to work. The night of death was coming, and no work could then be done.
5.God would defend him in this until the appointed time of his death. He had nothing to fear, therefore, in Judea from the Jews, until it was the will of God that he should die. He was safe in his hand, and he went fearlessly into the midst of his foes, trusting in him. This passage teaches us that we should be diligent to the end of life: fearless of enemies when we know that God requires us to labor, and confidently committing ourselves to Him who is able to shield us, and in whose hand, if we have a conscience void of offence, we are safe.
I believe the day and night, light and darkness in John is just as in Acts 26:18 YLT to open their eyes, to turn from darkness to light, and the authority of the Adversary unto God, for their receiving forgiveness of sins, and a lot among those having been sanctified, by faith that is toward me.
Compare Psalms 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. ------- Let there be Light
What was that darkness in verse 2?
Now here is another thought. Man isn't created until late on day six. Ps 8:6 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
We have man there and the son of man and this passage is carried forth into the NT Heb 2:begining V 9 as you know. From Heb 2 you can tell that the dominion assigned to the man of Gen 1 will actually take place in the Son of Man Jesus made a little lower than the angels, because of the death, and then by resurrection out of the dead, crowned with glory.
Verse 14 tells us it it was through that death the devil is destroyed.
Now back up in verse 5 it is stated; For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
Now I understand world there isn't kosmos however does not that verse imply that the world to come οἰκουμένην will not be subject to angels as this present world kosmos? The one laid down in Gen 1:3-31 - 2:1-4 Also consider Daniel 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
Adam was never intended to be the head of man. From before the foundation of the world the head would be the Son of God, born of woman, manifested as the Son of Man to destroy the works of the darkness of Gen 1:2
In my humble opinion the devil needed destroying well before man was created. Man would be the needs for the Son of Man.
Death would be required to destroy the one with the power of death. How will death come upon man? Why don't we make him out of the ground as flesh and blood, carnal, and give him a law and put him in the presence of the devil.
Remember plan, before the foundation of the world?
For I reckon that the sufferings of the present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory about to be revealed in us; for the earnest looking out of the creation doth expect the revelation of the sons of God; for to vanity was the creation ,<Gen 2:1-4) made subject -- not of its will, but because of Him who did subject it -- in hope, that also the creation itself shall be set free from the servitude of the corruption to the liberty of the glory of the children of God;
Scripture has answered your questions and assertions. God created the formless empty dark earth and then lit it up, all on day one. It's your choice to believe it.
37818
Well-Known Member
Sounds to me that you are just plain close minded.
Hebrews 1:10 explicitly refers to Genesis 1:1-2. Not theory.
timtofly
Well-Known Member
Why put words in God's mouth?
5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. So there was evening, and there was morning, one day.
5 And God called the Light, Day, and the darkness he called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.
Evening and Morning were called first day. Yes the morning started the Day as light. Yes the evening started the Night as darkness. The Darkness was there first then the Light.
4 And God saw the light that it was good, and God separated the light from the darkness.
If you want Light to be the first day, and God said it was dark before the light, you have to have evening first, because at 6pm it was total darkness, it was also total darkness at 5 pm, if there was a 5 pm. The light did not come until 6am. If the act of light was the first day, then God would have said, "The morning and the evening were the first day."
God did not say that. Creation started at 6pm, because God said evening came first. 12 earth hours later God said, "Let there be Light. " The first day had already started, the evening before the light. Thus God told Moses, the day started in the evening, and the Jews to this day agree with God. I have for the past 4 years, slept between 2am, and 7am. My day starts at 7am and ends at 2am. It does not start at 2am and end at 2am. I do not count the 5 hours I sleep. If I slept 14 hours a day, I would adjust that, because most of my day would be sleep. Not sure why God, Who started the world in darkness at 6pm, and brought forth light at 6am, would be considered strange to say, "the evening and the morning was the first day, " and then we can't see that God pointed out that after 12 hours of Night, and 12 hours of Day, that the day started at 6pm and ended at 6pm? You can call the day anything you want or what makes you feel comfortable. You cannot change the words of Genesis. You can interpret it to mean what it does not say. People may even agree with you.
What was the purpose of the tree whose fruit brought death? Was the result very good for Adam and Eve, or very good for God's purpose?
Indeed. I follow Paul's advice, not to go beyond what is written. I don't add things to God's word to harmonize it with man's ideas.
It's right there. Day mentioned before night. Close of day mentioned before close of night.
Why not just trust that?
My point stands. None of this refutes it.
Non-answer Sir. Repeating the question: What was the purpose of the Tree whose fruit brought death?
Irrelevant to the thread. Maybe start a new thread if you want to discuss the purpose of God's various actions.
On a side note: I sounds like you're advocating fatalism. You speak of the fall in existential terms rather than volitional terms. I didn't figure you for the hypercalvinist type.
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