General Reconciliation

[1689Dave]

Your understanding misses the reason God created. It is not about people. It is about his glory.

Your posting that made me think of my thread in C&A John 3:16 pt 2 which no one has commented upon.

God created for the, "In Hope," by which the glory to God comes.

Read in the context of what you posted above.

Who gets the glory in salvation? The self-righteous who think they save themselves? Or God who saves those who cannot save themselves?

 

[atpollard]

Well, your answer was easy, I suppose. The question, not so much. If Jesus raises all at the last day, and He is the resurrection, how can you say that those people aren't saved from death?

I do not pit Scripture against Scripture, but accept the truth of each and every verse within its surrounding paragraph, chapter and book.

Could you post the specific verse or verses to which you refer that claim(s) "Jesus raises all at the last day" and "He is the resurrection" and "those people are all saved from death"?
I am familiar with no verse that teaches this, but I am willing to be enlightened.

 

[canadyjd]

The Lord does:

Psalms 139.
Jeremiah 1:5.
Acts of the Apostles 15:18.
Romans 8:29-30.

He also gives them new names:

Isaiah 62:2.
Revelation 2:17.
Revelation 3:12.

On a side note, I really like this passage:

" [Even] every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him." ( Isaiah 43:7 ).



Good evening to you, and I wish you well.

What he said.

peace to you

 

[Van]

Please share the verse that says "we are chosen for salvation based upon the faith we display."

I have never read any verse in the Bible that says such a thing or even implies such a thing. Therefore, unless you can clearly produce that verse, I call your teaching false.
Your turn to prove your teaching isn't false, Van.
Where does the Bible say, "we are chosen for salvation based upon the faith we display."???

LOL Folks, this Calvinist rewrites my statement and then charges me with a false statement. I kid you not...
2 Thessalonians 2:13 says we are chosen for salvation through or on the basis of "faith in the truth. Is the election based then on "the faith we display." Nope, of course not. Now if God alone credits our faith, as worthless as it might be, as righteousness, He then places us into Christ, which constitutes our individual election.

On and on folks, Calvinism cannot be defended rationally, so its duped defenders (beloved by God) can only deflect using disparagement and misrepresentation. So sad

 

[Dave G]

LOL Folks, this Calvinist rewrites my statement and then charges me with a false statement. I kid you not...
2 Thessalonians 2:13 says we are chosen for salvation through or on the basis of "faith in the truth. Is the election based then on "the faith we display." Nope, of course not. Now if God alone credits our faith, as worthless as it might be, as righteousness, He then places us into Christ, which constitutes our individual election.

" But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ." ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 ).

Chosen to salvation through two things...
Sanctification ( purification in the sight of God ) of ( by or from ) the Spirit,
And belief of the truth.

and let's not forget:

" For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake; " ( Philippians 1:29, AV ).
" For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, " ( Philippians 1:29, NKJV )

Who gets the glory in salvation?

The Lord does.

We should always be mindful, brothers and sisters, that were it not for the Lord and being His workmanship ( Ephesians 2:10 ), created in Christ Jesus unto good works, that we would instead be cast into Hell where we rightfully belong.
It's His grace and mercy alone ( Titus 3:5-6 ) that are the reason any of us are saved.

 

[Dave G]

On and on folks, Calvinism cannot be defended rationally

That's where we disagree and where we will probably, except by the grace of God, always disagree.

What you call "Calvinism" can be defended Scripturally, Van.
Those of us who see it continue to try and show you, but it seems the words on the page don't have the same impact that they do to many that read and post here.

Nevertheless, I wish you well, as always.

 

[Van]

Van, SNIP
/QUOTE]
Fault is yet again found in my behavior.
Nothing addressing the topic, i.e. the biblical doctrine that says Christ provides the means of salvation for mankind, but only those whose faith in Christ is credited by God "receive" the reconciliation provided by Christ's sacrifice.

 

[atpollard]

Question ...

Van,
In the light of what is quoted above, I'd like to suggest that if you're going to judge someone for doing something, that you do your level best not to be guilty of it yourself ( Matthew 7:1-2 ).
Wouldn't you agree?

Response ...

Fault is yet again found in my behavior.
Nothing addressing the topic, i.e. the biblical doctrine that says Christ provides the means of salvation for mankind, but only those whose faith in Christ is credited by God "receive" the reconciliation provided by Christ's sacrifice.

Translation: "No."

 

[Van]

The passage, in context, Jesus is clearly speaking of a call to salvation. Jesus says of those He calls, they will follow him, He will lose none and raise them up. He is clearly speaking of a call to salvation.
To call it “poppycock” and “nonsense” is missing the clear understanding of the text.
Thanks for not calling me names.
peace to you

I will agree, one of us is missing the clear meaning of the text.
Since you did not provide the post number where I supposedly called you names, I will take this post as an apology for smearing me in your post #19.

John 10:3 (NASB) “To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.

Using sound hermeneutics and logical necessity, not to mention context, we see that the sheep (mankind) hear his voice (the ones who are "of My sheep" and that Jesus calls "his own sheep" by name. So this has nothing to do with the call of the gospel to believe in Christ, but rather that once placed in Christ, we are known intimately, and therefore Christ calls us by our individual names.

 

[Van]

which is an earnest of our inheritance, to the redemption of the acquired possession, to the praise of His glory. Eph 1:14
the eyes of your understanding being enlightened, for your knowing what is the hope of His calling, and what the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, Eph 1:18

It appears to me, that our inheritance, the redemption of our body, becomes the inherited glory of God.

Percho, the topic is reconciliation.

 

[Van]

You are stealing God's glory when you repent without giving him thanks or credit. Bristling instead with self-righteousness. God glories when he grants repentance to you and gives you a repentant heart. There's nothing worse than stealing God's glory. Herod tried it and was eaten of worms.

Is there a quote which says to not ascribe to God glory? OTOH, to deny our turning and trust denies our ascribing glory to God.

 

[Van]

" But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ." ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 ).

Chosen to salvation through two things...
Sanctification ( purification in the sight of God ) of ( by or from ) the Spirit,
And belief of the truth. SNIP

Thus because we were chosen through or on the basis of "faith in the truth" we already had faith (as credited by God as righteousness) before being chosen. Game, set and match.

 

[Van]

That's where we disagree and where we will probably, except by the grace of God, always disagree.

What you call "Calvinism" can be defended Scripturally, Van.
Those of us who see it continue to try and show you, but it seems the words on the page don't have the same impact that they do to many that read and post here.

Nevertheless, I wish you well, as always.

As I show repeatedly there is no support, except what Calvinism reads into vague and ambiguous texts.
No one seeks God becomes no one ever seeks God
Cannot understand the things of the spirit becomes cannot understand all the things of the Spirit.
Calls his sheep by name becomes calls the sheep into the kingdom.

On and on folks, there is no actual support for the TULI of Calvinism anywhere in scripture

 

[Van]

Question ...
Response ...
Translation: "No."

Yet another smokescreed post, addressing me and not the topic.
Calvinism cannot be defended from scripture, so all they have is smear, ignore, and misrepresentation.

 

[1689Dave]

Is there a quote which says to not ascribe to God glory? OTOH, to deny our turning and trust denies our ascribing glory to God.

Self-salvation = self glorification

 

[Van]

Self-salvation = self glorification

There is no "self-salvation!" So Dave you have again engaged in deceitfulness. And even though you were "gently rebuked" you ignored scripture and plowed ahead.

Does salvation depend on the person willing to be saved? Nope Salvation depends on God alone, Romans 9:16

Pay no attention to Calvinists who misrepresent the views of others and scripture.

 

[1689Dave]

There is no "self-salvation!" So Dave you have again engaged in deceitfulness. And even though you were "gently rebuked" you ignored scripture and plowed ahead.

Does salvation depend on the person willing to be saved? Nope Salvation depends on God alone, Romans 9:16

Pay no attention to Calvinists who misrepresent the views of others and scripture.

Do you believe in free will? Do you believe you must respond to God to be saved? Let's peel back the layers and see what you believe.

 

[AustinC]

Thus because we were chosen through or on the basis of "faith in the truth" we already had faith (as credited by God as righteousness) before being chosen. Game, set and match.

You are adding to scripture what is not stated in scripture. That's how false teaching starts...

 

[Van]

Do you believe in free will? Do you believe you must respond to God to be saved? Let's peel back the layers and see what you believe.

Folks, behold subject change effort after subject change effort. First they disparage my character, then want to know about another subject. LOL

BTW, I have addressed that other subject at length. Calvinist ignore the answers and then ask the question again and again

 

[1689Dave]

Folks, behold subject change effort after subject change effort. First they disparage my character, then want to know about another subject. LOL

BTW, I have addressed that other subject at length. Calvinist ignore the answers and then ask the question again and again

We cannot solve your problem without probing it.