Go ahead and pound me: But I believe the Government should be involved in healthcare.

[JohnDeereFan]

Keep drinking the grape Flavor-Aid.

Actually, he's right. The same people who now say that they just have to have their health care plan so they can save the poor people are the same ones who fought common sense solutions for the last thirty years.

Go down the list and compare the politicians favoring socialized healthcare with their votes on tort reform in the early 90s.

Go and compare the names with the names of the politicians who repeatedly voted in favor of ever-increasing, cost increasing, distribution lowering restrictions on drug companies.

If they're really "for the people", then why haven't they allowed people to purchase insurance from out of state carriers, where they could pay less?

 

[Bob Alkire]

Actually, he's right. The same people who now say that they just have to have their health care plan so they can save the poor people are the same ones who fought common sense solutions for the last thirty years.

Go down the list and compare the politicians favoring socialized healthcare with their votes on tort reform in the early 90s.

Go and compare the names with the names of the politicians who repeatedly voted in favor of ever-increasing, cost increasing, distribution lowering restrictions on drug companies.

If they're really "for the people", then why haven't they allowed people to purchase insurance from out of state carriers, where they could pay less?

You are so right my friend. Most of us at some point in our lives might not have had health insurance.

I recall the day that friends, family and church helped folks with health issues, rent, food and education if need be. Today so many think it should be the government. If we have it we wanted to keep it, if we don't we want the government to pay or the rich and rich is anyone who has more than me.

 

[rbell]

Government programs quickly turn into vote-buying schemes.

If one is honest, one will admit that this will happen with medical care as well.

Havensdad, I'm sorry you've had it rough. I really am. But you are mistaken if you think that government is a panacea for all these societal ills.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

You are so right my friend. Most of us at some point in our lives might not have had health insurance.

I recall the day that friends, family and church helped folks with health issues, rent, food and education if need be. Today so many think it should be the government. If we have it we wanted to keep it, if we don't we want the government to pay or the rich and rich is anyone who has more than me.

Yep. It still is that way to some degree. I can't tell you how many emails I get for "Beef and Beer for Joe Blow's Medical Expenses" or "Ted and Jane are having a rent party on the 19th", etc.

Our church helps to run three missions that provide a wide variety of services to the poor, from health care and job training, to help with the rent, debt counseling, child care, etc. We've helped thousands of people and just held a dental clinic for the poor in our area. NOT ONE DIME OF GOVERNMENT MONEY!

I also belong to a group called Parrotheads in Paradise and we throw fundraisers for people or groups that help those people about once a month. Every area has a local chapter and that's more or less what we do: hold fundraisers and volunteer.

 

[Aaron]

What if he can not?

Manure occurreth.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Manure occurreth.

Yep, there's that uncompassionate conservatism again. I got mine, to heck with you and your family. Even a good system has room for improvement. I suppose some will only change their tune when something beyond their control takes away what they formerly believed to be their security.

 

[Revmitchell]

Yep, there's that uncompassionate conservatism again. I got mine, to heck with you and your family. Even a good system has room for improvement. I suppose some will only change their tune when something beyond their control takes away what they formerly believed to be their security.

That is correct. I completely agree with you. Every system has room for improvement. But that does not mean to completely change the system for political power. As a Bivo pastor I have been without insurance for me and my family. I know what it is not to have it. But we all still received timely medical care.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

That is correct. I completely agree with you. Every system has room for improvement. But that does not mean to completely change the system for political power. As a Bivo pastor I have been without insurance for me and my family. I know what it is not to have it. But we all still received timely medical care.

I am glad you did. But when a moderately catastrophic condition strikes, life-saving treatment can be beyond the reach of a family who has no insurance. It is a real problem.

 

[Revmitchell]

I am glad you did. But when a moderately catastrophic condition strikes, life-saving treatment can be beyond the reach of a family who has no insurance. It is a real problem.

Sorry that is just false in America. But....under the communist medical care in Canada and Europe it is very true. The problem IN America is not obtaining the care. There is just no issue there. It can be a problem paying for it. But medical services are never withheld for inability to pay in America.

 

[OldRegular]

The government is already running a health care program for many ... both Medicare and Medicaid for seniors ... and the VA health system for veterans.

Oh, and from what I hear they run a very good healthcare system for senators and representatives.

The health insurance for government workers is government run also ... oversight is to run.

Critics seem to overlook this point in their objections.

You are showing your ignorance [lack of knowledge].

Medicaid is a state run program that receives some aid from taxes imposed by the Federal on the consumer.

http://www.cms.hhs.gov/MedicaidGenInfo/

Don’t talk about Medicare unless you are on it. Folks who are on Medicare generally receive adequate treatment though supplemental insurance is necessary to cover the costs that Medicare doesn’t. Also a premium is required for Medicare though those who receive it generally paid into the fund along with their Social security. There are two major problems with Medicare:

1. It is really, like Social Security, a Ponzi scheme and is on the verge of bankruptcy.

2. The reimbursement rate to doctors and hospitals is a disgrace. I know personally of heart surgeons who are paid less than plumbers. Many doctors will not accept Medicare patients. The Mayo Clinic has announced that if the current Senate Bill is passed they will take no additional Medicare patients.

Simply put the VA health care system is a disgrace.

It is true that Senators and Representatives have a good health care system. That is the reason they are excluding themselves from the proposed Obamacare reforms.

The question is: If the government can’t run the post office how can they run one sixth of the economy. They can’t. The democrats intend to develop a system that will lead to rationing and euthanasia of the old just like the system they have for slaughtering the unborn.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Simply put the VA health care system is a disgrace.

I can attest to that. Many years ago, I was a paramedic and routinely took patients to the Philadelphia Naval Hospital, the Philadelphia VA Hospital, Walston Army Hospital (I once had a young woman beg me not to take her to Walston because she had previously worked there and knew what a dump it was), the VA hospital in Wilmington, etc.

I just remember thinking how I wouldn't send my dog to one of those places. They were terrible.

And now they want to bring that fine level of care to a hospital near you.

It is true that Senators and Representatives have a good health care system. That is the reason they are excluding themselves from the proposed Obamacare reforms.

This is my argument all along: if their healthcare plan is so good, then why haven't they done it for themselves by now?

 

[abcgrad94]

This is my argument all along: if their healthcare plan is so good, then why haven't they done it for themselves by now?

A question we STILL have not heard the liberal politicians answer. . . .

*crickets chirping*

 

[Timsings]

I haven't come to a conclusion about this yet. My income is down this year, and the insurance options for my wife's retirement plan will be significantly more expensive next year. So I would like to have some other options. However, I also question the sincerity of politicians and their dedication to do this right. One thing I have noticed in reading this thread: all of the critics of the OP seem to be saying that there is only one way for the government to run health care. I'm not sure that this is correct. Here is a link to an article by T. R. Reid, "5 Myths About Health Care Around the World". I posted this article in a thread in August when it first appeared, and it received a few views, but no responses. About the same time I heard an interview with Reid concerning his book which is mentioned at the end of the article. Both the article and the book explore the different ways in which government "runs" health care in other countries and how those different ways already exist in the US, run by the government.

Tim Reynolds

 

[John Toppass]

Unfortunately, it is not uncommon for people to choose a certain lifestyle and when they can not support themselves and their family they call for everyone else to be forced to chip in, so they do not have to change their chosen lifestyle. Then they call the people they expect to be made to pay for their poor choice "idiotic conservatives" if they do not willingly go along.

That kind of logic is idiotic. I also wonder how can someone and their family be covered by a relatives insurance without a bit of fraud involved. It may be so but I am not aware of this happening legally, atleast in Texas.

 

[rbell]

I can attest to that. Many years ago, I was a paramedic and routinely took patients to the Philadelphia Naval Hospital, the Philadelphia VA Hospital, Walston Army Hospital (I once had a young woman beg me not to take her to Walston because she had previously worked there and knew what a dump it was), the VA hospital in Wilmington, etc.

I just remember thinking how I wouldn't send my dog to one of those places. They were terrible.

And now they want to bring that fine level of care to a hospital near you.

This is my argument all along: if their healthcare plan is so good, then why haven't they done it for themselves by now?

You're not going to get an answer. That's because you've "snookered them" on this one.

 

[carpro]

I know a lot of my conservative friends (I myself am socially conservative, but fiscally moderate) might disagree with me; I DO believe in small government, to some extent. But I believe that the government SHOULD be in control of health care.

Why? Well the first reason is theological. I believe that Roman 13:4 teaches a basic theological truth: the earthly powers which God has established, are responsible for the physical well being of it's people, just as the Church is responsible for the spiritual well being. In this day and age, this applies not just to law enforcement, but also medical care.

Saving people's lives is the one area in which capitalism should not apply: at least in the application of it to individuals.

:laugh:

Then you should just love government healthcare ...

unless you or someone you love are allowed to die off because your care would be too expensive or sent home in pain to die.

 

[Aaron]

Yep, there's that uncompassionate conservatism again. I got mine, to heck with you and your family. Even a good system has room for improvement. I suppose some will only change their tune when something beyond their control takes away what they formerly believed to be their security.

I worked 11 years with no insurance. When my income rose to a level I could afford it, I purchased family coverage. Now that coverage is getting too expensive, we will be dropping it again.

 

[targus]

Yep, there's that uncompassionate conservatism again. I got mine, to heck with you and your family. Even a good system has room for improvement. I suppose some will only change their tune when something beyond their control takes away what they formerly believed to be their security.

Here's an alternative system that should please everyone:

An insurance program that is entirely based on voluntary contributions.

The uninsured get their insurance free...

And the compassionate people can make voluntary contributions to support the system.

So MP - what percentage of your gross income would you personally be willing to put into such a system so that others can have medical insurance?

 

[sag38]

No, liberals don't believe in volunteering thier income for anything. They would rather the government forcibly take it.

 

[Havensdad]

As much as some do not like it, society requires give and take. For example, people in an outlying rural section of a county, pay the same property taxes as everyone else. So the big overpasses and 4 lane highways, are paid for by them, even though they might never use them. This does not mean the yuppies who drive that highway everyday are stealing from the rural people.

Likewise, the public school system. (Although I do not personally believe the government should be at all involved in the school system). I have paid approximately 40,000 dollars in property taxes over the last 14 years. 90 percent of that money, went to pay for schools that my children will never use.

Social Security, same thing. I have paid in about 80,000 dollars in on Social Security, to fund other peoples retirement over the last 15 years(although, again, I do not believe the government should be involved in the retirement fund business either). Medicare, same thing. I have paid in enough medicare taxes, to BUY insurance for me and my children for the next 5 years, if the government wants to give it back.

For those who do not support the war overseas (I Do support it: think it is terribly important), why are their tax dollars being "stolen" to support something they do not believe in?

The fact is, the only reason the lower class cannot pay for their own medical insurance, is because so much of their money is being taken already. Here in Texas, we have a sales tax, in addition to other taxes like property tax. A poor family making only 20k dollars a year, who owns a moderate 1 bedroom house, and only one car, can expect to pay about 1/4 of their income in taxes, even though they are not paying "federal" taxes. Most of that, is for things the government should not be involved in.


Understand that I am not arguing for my own sake. I have noticed several posters point at me, as if this is something I want for myself. I do not: I trust in the Lord, and I am fine. However, I have seen some very good, hardworking families go through hardships because of lack of Medical coverage. And until the government stops wasting 1/4 of their money on things like public schools (which they will NEVER do) something needs to be done to provide for them. If your child takes advantage of a public school, paid for by these peoples taxes, (many who do not have children, or who do not attend public school), or if you drive on those big fancy overpasses (paid for in large part by rural ranchers and large property owners who rarely, if ever, use them) you have no right to complain when they want their life saved by YOUR tax dollars...