Go ahead and pound me: But I believe the Government should be involved in healthcare.

[OldRegular]

Brother got a similar infection, only his was MRSA. In just a few hours, a small spot on his hand had turned into a large spot, and his arm was swollen. He (because of not having insurance) had to go to a hospital all the way in Houston, which, if he would not have had gas money, would have just been too bad for him.

Surely you or his father would have given him gas money!

Incidentally he would have been treated in any emergency room.

 

[Havensdad]

Surely you or his father would have given him gas money!

Incidentally he would have been treated in any emergency room.

Not so. The hospital in this area is a private Hospital. They do have an emergency room, but all they will do is stabilize you (if necessary) and send you to a different hospital. If your situation is not immediately life threatening (you are bleeding to death from a gun shot wound or something) they will not accept you at all. If you say "I don't have money to get to a different hospital!" they will tell you "I am sorry, sir, there is nothing we can do."

Now, my brother could have went home for a few hours, to wait until the situation was immediately life threatening, and come back: but he would have lost an arm, and maybe died.

P.S. Yes, in fact, I believe my father did give him gas money. What about the 55 year old lady living next to me, with no relatives?

 

[targus]

Not so. The hospital in this area is a private Hospital. They do have an emergency room, but all they will do is stabilize you (if necessary) and send you to a different hospital. If your situation is not immediately life threatening (you are bleeding to death from a gun shot wound or something) they will not accept you at all. If you say "I don't have money to get to a different hospital!" they will tell you "I am sorry, sir, there is nothing we can do."

Now, my brother could have went home for a few hours, to wait until the situation was immediately life threatening, and come back: but he would have lost an arm, and maybe died.

P.S. Yes, in fact, I believe my father did give him gas money. What about the 55 year old lady living next to me, with no relatives?

The situation that you are describing may not be the ideal but it is certainly different than the claim of receiving no health care.

 

[Havensdad]

The situation that you are describing may not be the ideal but it is certainly different than the claim of receiving no health care.

If he wouldn't have had family, he may well have lost his arm or died. If the former, the taxpayers would have been out far more than the cost of his medical care, in disability payments. If the latter...well you get the idea.

"may not be ideal" is the understatement of the year! It needs fixing!!

 

[targus]

If he wouldn't have had family, he may well have lost his arm or died. If the former, the taxpayers would have been out far more than the cost of his medical care, in disability payments. If the latter...well you get the idea.

"may not be ideal" is the understatement of the year! It needs fixing!!

How would you feel about an insurance program for the uninsured that is funded by contributions by people who believe as you do?

How much would you personally be willing to contribute?

 

[Hardsheller]

I personally know a man who was declared medically disabled and officially retired from the state job he had. He applied for Social Security Disability and for two years went unapproved because of red tape and medical boards.

This is the same Government you want to handle your Health Insurance?

 

[OldRegular]

Not so. The hospital in this area is a private Hospital. They do have an emergency room, but all they will do is stabilize you (if necessary) and send you to a different hospital. If your situation is not immediately life threatening (you are bleeding to death from a gun shot wound or something) they will not accept you at all. If you say "I don't have money to get to a different hospital!" they will tell you "I am sorry, sir, there is nothing we can do."

Now, my brother could have went home for a few hours, to wait until the situation was immediately life threatening, and come back: but he would have lost an arm, and maybe died.

P.S. Yes, in fact, I believe my father did give him gas money. What about the 55 year old lady living next to me, with no relatives?

I said it before and I will say it again with emphasis. If the Baptist churches would quit tearing down their barns and building bigger ones they could aid those who are in need. I believe Baptist churches probably do less of this than any denomination. Perhaps they are afraid of being accused of doing good works! However, we are told in Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

A particular area of South Carolina near where I live has very few Lutherans yet a town in that area has a Lutheran assisted care facility. South Carolina is overflowing with professing Baptists yet I am not sure they have any such facilities. Perhaps my fellow South Carolinians will correct me.

I have heard the lament for years that: If everyone just tithed look what we could do! Yes! Build bigger barns. Sort of like the Prestonwood Baptist Church in Texas.

 

[Dragoon68]

Pound, pound, pound!

 

[John Toppass]

Social Security, same thing. I have paid in about 80,000 dollars in on Social Security, to fund other peoples retirement over the last 15 years(although, again, I do not believe the government should be involved in the retirement fund business either). Medicare, same thing. I have paid in enough medicare taxes, to BUY insurance for me and my children for the next 5 years, if the government wants to give it back.

.

If my math is right 80,000 on social security would equal more than one million dollars earned. Does this mean that you live better than most but still whine that you make poor choices and deny your family medical insurance. Search the scripture and read about stewardship and responsibility. My prayers are with you and especially your family.

 

[targus]

If my math is right 80,000 on social security would equal more than one million dollars earned. Does this mean that you live better than most but still whine that you make poor choices and deny your family medical insurance. Search the scripture and read about stewardship and responsibility. My prayers are with you and especially your family.

Your math is correct. That equals about $67,000 a year in income.

On which he claims to have paid $10,000 a year in property taxes.

Something is not adding up here.

Unless of course Havensdad has lived way beyond his income and borrowed money like crazy to finance it.

That could explain the lack of medical insurance and the current camper trailer housing choice.

And this is an example of someone that the rest of us should be required to provide medical insurance for - at our own expense?

 

[Hardsheller]

Now we're getting to the truth.

There are a lot of folks who chose not to purchase health insurance and in America that is their right.

But here we have a person who can afford it but chooses not to.

He then bellyaches about the healthcare system he chooses not to participate in and supports a government takeover of the same system he chooses to spurn.

He will ultimately get what he wishes. Government run healthcare and he will not have a choice whether he wants to participate or not.

Remember this discussion Havensdad when you have to pony up and write the check to the federal government for the healthcare you so want them to provide.

 

[rbell]

Don't know about that. Do know my Father got a staph infection on his back: handed them the Medicare card, they stuck him in a room, I believe they lanced it (or possibly cut a portion of it out? Wasn't in the room) gave him antibiotics, and he was fine. No problem.

Brother got a similar infection, only his was MRSA. In just a few hours, a small spot on his hand had turned into a large spot, and his arm was swollen. He (because of not having insurance) had to go to a hospital all the way in Houston, which, if he would not have had gas money, would have just been too bad for him.

Two anecdotes doesn't even come close to answering my question. Try again.

 

[rbell]

"may not be ideal" is the understatement of the year! It needs fixing!!

And you think the federal government's involvement "fixes things?"

What planet have you been on lately?

The problem I have with your view (one of many): You state, "A Christian should help those in need." (right? sure.)

Then you go on to limit Christians--claiming the only way they can help is to have their money confiscated by an inept, power-hungry federal government that could screw up an anvil with a rubber mallet. (right? not so much)

There are other ways to help, you know...

 

[saturneptune]

And you think the federal government's involvement "fixes things?"

What planet have you been on lately?

The problem I have with your view (one of many): You state, "A Christian should help those in need." (right? sure.)

Then you go on to limit Christians--claiming the only way they can help is to have their money confiscated by an inept, power-hungry federal government that could screw up an anvil with a rubber mallet. (right? not so much)

There are other ways to help, you know...

You are correct. This thread reminds me of the war threads with people who have no experience with military service giving their glorious opinions. If anyone has been involved with any agency of the federal government in any fashion, common sense would say that person would not walk, but run away from any governmental involvement in their health care.

 

[Hardsheller]

AMEN. As much as I love our military personnel I feel sorry for them because I know personally how FRUSTRATING the MILITARY CHAIN OF COMMAND and ORGANIZATION is to deal with.

Egads! Just thinking about some of my experiences in the military make me want to hide under my bed 'til Jesus comes.

The idea of the Government in charge of healthcare is the biggest nightmare I can imagine.

My wife just turned 65 this past year. I still don't understand the Medicare System - Not the whole thing mind you - just the little bitty USER END OF IT!!!!

Now if I can't understand it with an Accounting Degree plus a Masters Degree how do you think the rest of the "SHEEPLE" feel?

Havensdad doesn't know what he's asking for!!!
:BangHead:

 

[Havensdad]

If my math is right 80,000 on social security would equal more than one million dollars earned. Does this mean that you live better than most but still whine that you make poor choices and deny your family medical insurance. Search the scripture and read about stewardship and responsibility. My prayers are with you and especially your family.

Bro,

Accusations are hardly appropriate. Have I attacked you personally?


As I have stated, now for the fourth time, I am not talking about myself. Yes, if you must know, I made very good money (at least the last few years). I even broke 6 figures two years (gross), working sometimes 96 hours a week (when the BASF plant blew up in Freeport a few years back).

I and my wife made a personal choice, in our case, in order to go into ministry and share the gospel. So again, for the fifth time, I am not talking of myself.

Why is it that people cannot share their views, without personally attacking others? I am not worried about myself and my Children: I am worried about others who were not afforded my opportunities in life.

Where is the empathy for the less fortunate? Where is the loving kindness that should epitomize the Christian?

Mat 5:40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
Mat 5:41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
Mat 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

 

[windcatcher]

AMEN. As much as I love our military personnel I feel sorry for them because I know personally how FRUSTRATING the MILITARY CHAIN OF COMMAND and ORGANIZATION is to deal with.

Egads! Just thinking about some of my experiences in the military make me want to hide under my bed 'til Jesus comes.

The idea of the Government in charge of healthcare is the biggest nightmare I can imagine.

My wife just turned 65 this past year. I still don't understand the Medicare System - Not the whole thing mind you - just the little bitty USER END OF IT!!!!

Now if I can't understand it with an Accounting Degree plus a Masters Degree how do you think the rest of the "SHEEPLE" feel?

Havensdad doesn't know what he's asking for!!!
:BangHead:

Sometimes misery loves company.

Unfortunately, many are now receiving some good care because of the benevolence of Christian doctors, pharmaceutical companies making special offers, gifts and fund raising who might not have nearly the effective care if health care went national and one is on a list for a gp who refers to a specialist who orders tests which are reviewed by the gp and then more tests, referrals, tests, referrals etc until treatment..... and at each stage..... they are held up by being a number in line for care.

Sorry, Havensdad, I'd truly like to be more compassionate, but sometimes we pray, sometimes we ask and seek and find..... and sometimes a prayer doesn't answer our way so we refuse God's answer and belly ache about our own condition. Whatever happened to committing all things into God's hands and thanking Him in faith that even when things would not appear to others to be going our way.... we know that He is faithful and we trust His will be done..

Health care by government will not be more caring....... it will be much much less...... and reduce the means and the choices of those who would help from doing so.

Regulating health care means government will regulate the services of doctors.... Gone with the voluntary office visits and care some doctors give without charge to the very poor uncovered by ANY plan. When government institutes price controls, gone will be the profit incentive to develope more effective meds or research develope and modify medical equipment and technology for improvements in diagnosing, treatment and care.

Who have you asked for help? When did you stop making phone calls? You have internet? Have you searched for help? Have you told your SS class and church of your need? If they couldn't help.... have you taken your needs to other churches? Have you engaged your friends and relatives to be alert for information which might help you? Are you living in an area where you are so restricted from resources and people that this is the problem and you could solve it if willing to move?

 

[Havensdad]

Who have you asked for help? When did you stop making phone calls? You have internet? Have you searched for help? Have you told your SS class and church of your need? If they couldn't help.... have you taken your needs to other churches? Have you engaged your friends and relatives to be alert for information which might help you? Are you living in an area where you are so restricted from resources and people that this is the problem and you could solve it if willing to move?

??


Again, for the sixth time, I am not talking about myself. How many times do you have to say something, before someone actually hears it?

 

[targus]

Bro,

As I have stated, now for the fourth time, I am not talking about myself. Yes, if you must know, I made very good money (at least the last few years). I even broke 6 figures two years (gross), working sometimes 96 hours a week (when the BASF plant blew up in Freeport a few years back).

What are we to believe?

Previously you said this:

Social Security, same thing. I have paid in about 80,000 dollars in on Social Security, to fund other peoples retirement over the last 15 years(although, again, I do not believe the government should be involved in the retirement fund business either). Medicare, same thing. I have paid in enough medicare taxes, to BUY insurance for me and my children for the next 5 years, if the government wants to give it back.

What have you written that is about you and what is about someone else?

When you were talking about your brother were you really talking about your brother or some other person's brother or maybe just a hypothetical brother?

What are we now supposed to believe?

 

[Havensdad]

What are we to believe?

Previously you said this:

Social Security, same thing. I have paid in about 80,000 dollars in on Social Security, to fund other peoples retirement over the last 15 years(although, again, I do not believe the government should be involved in the retirement fund business either). Medicare, same thing. I have paid in enough medicare taxes, to BUY insurance for me and my children for the next 5 years, if the government wants to give it back.

This was an example. I only have personal examples, since I am not omnipresent. Someone mentioned something about "stealing their money" to pay for someone else's healthcare. My example here, was to show the huge amount of money already taken for other people, from me, and the rest of the public. I was demonstrating that society is necessarily a give and take relationship. Some people pay for roads they never use. Others pay for healtchare for others: give and take.

What have you written that is about you and what is about someone else?

When you were talking about your brother were you really talking about your brother or some other person's brother or maybe just a hypothetical brother?

Is my brother me?

As I believe I stated in my post, my brother was fine because he had family: my point was specifically about others (not my brother) who did not have money, nor family. This post specifically excluded me and my family.

What are we now supposed to believe?

What I have actually said, instead of reading into my posts whatever you want. If you want to discuss the issue, discuss the issue. I have not been rude to anyone, and I do not deserve personal attacks.