Go ahead and pound me: But I believe the Government should be involved in healthcare.

[Revmitchell]

Then the constitution needs amending. It is ridiculous that we can collect taxes to kill people, but not to save them.

I would vote against it. It is not necessary to have the government involved in it and it is very dangerous. I do understand your concern but I believe you are not seeing the bigger problems here. Demcoms like to use taxes and things like this to control behavior they see offensive. This would be a useful tool for those purposes.

There are always other ways to resolve concerns like you have. Government is the worst possible scenario.

 

[Havensdad]

Havensdad, I am still hoping for an answer to my proposal.

I will ask again for a third time.

How about a system of medical insurance for the uninsured that is paid for through voluntary donations from people who feel as you do?

What percentage of your income would you be willing to contribute?

O.K.:

How about a system where the roadways, schools, and military are paid for through voluntary donations from people who desire those things? How much would you be willing to contribute?

 

[targus]

O.K.:

How about a system where the roadways, schools, and military are paid for through voluntary donations from people who desire those things? How much would you be willing to contribute?

You are the one that says that it is our responsibility to pay for insurance for the uninsured.

So you would reject a system based on voluntary giving?

Why is that?

BTW - we do have a voluntary system for roads and schools - toll roads and private schools.

 

[Havensdad]

You are the one that says that it is our responsibility to pay for insurance for the uninsured.

So you would reject a system based on voluntary giving?

Why is that?

Because it is more important, and more a matter of public concern, than schools and overpasses. If those two things were taken out of the government's hands, then that system might work.

I currently know several couples who have no children (or no public school attending children) who nevertheless have to pay large amounts of taxes for public schools. This is no different.

 

[Revmitchell]

I currently know several couples who have no children (or no public school attending children) who nevertheless have to pay large amounts of taxes for public schools. This is no different.

Doesn't justify government run healthcare. Neither should be. You would do well to stay away form justifying your position with other current programs. They can never prop your position up. The fact that government is involved in our education system is the reason it is a never ending money pit. neither is it constitutional on the fed level.

 

[targus]

Because it is more important, and more a matter of public concern, than schools and overpasses. If those two things were taken out of the government's hands, then that system might work.

I currently know several couples who have no children (or no public school attending children) who nevertheless have to pay large amounts of taxes for public schools. This is no different.

Actually it is different.

Schools are paid for with local tax dollars not federal.

Would you then be willing to have health insurance for the uninsured be paid for at the local level?

If not then you need to drop that comparison.

 

[Johnv]

... But I believe the Government should be involved in healthcare.

I don't have a problem with Government being involved in healthcare. I ahve a problem with THE WAY government is trying to involve itself in healthcare. When its involvement restricts competition and increases taxes on the populus, that's not how I see government's involvement being healthy.

 

[abcgrad94]

I still haven't seen a legitimate reason stated in this thread for why other people can't do what I had to do. That is WORK HARD to get a decent education and become a productive member of society instead of staying on public assistance my whole life.

Here's how I interpret this thread relative to my life:
I was raised poor and lived in government housing. I studied and earned scholarships and worked my way through college. After that, I got married and continued to work until the kids came. My kids are fed and clothed and housed by dh and I, not the government. Because we CHOSE to work and be responsible, we are able to have health insurance and food, etc.

Now I read this thread and learn that I am a terrible Christian with no compassion for others because I don't want to take from my children and turn around and hand our money to my former neighbors in the housing projects. Wow, what a great incentive to try to give my children a better life than what I had! I mean, how DARE I live better than anyone else, even if they've had the same chance to work and use their brains but refused to do so. And since I don't wish to fund laziness, the government wants to decide that for me, to make sure everyone gets a chance at my wallet.

No thanks. If I can work for what I have, so can everybody else!

 

[targus]

I still haven't seen a legitimate reason stated in this thread for why other people can't do what I had to do. That is WORK HARD to get a decent education and become a productive member of society instead of staying on public assistance my whole life.

I think that this thread is even worse than that.

The author of the OP has a wife and children and has chosen not to buy medical insurance even though he describes himself as having the ability to do so.

Even though he talks about trusting in God, I find it very hard to believe that he would not be at the nearest emergency room looking for his free medical attention if anything serious were to fall upon either his wife or children.

Instead he spends his time here arguing about how we are supposed to take care of those who have no insurance.

His personal testimony only reinforces my belief that it is not our responsibilty to be the financiers of his personal folly by means of government force.

 

[Bob Alkire]

O.K.:

How about a system where the roadways, schools, and military are paid for through voluntary donations from people who desire those things? How much would you be willing to contribute?

My friend, you are way off on this one.

Roadways have enough money from the trucking industry to pay for the roads, but the government has been using it for other things for years. Interstate highways and military are to be paid for by the federal government.
Schools should be a state deal. In my state if you own or are buying a home you pay school tax.

Health care is a personal deal. If I wish to help, it is my call, if your family wants to help, it is their call, if you church wants to help it is their call, not the government.

 

[Havensdad]

I was raised poor and lived in government housing.

So you received a hand up, but you are unwilling to extend the same courtesy?

 

[Havensdad]

My friend, you are way off on this one.

Roadways have enough money from the trucking industry to pay for the roads, but the government has been using it for other things for years. Interstate highways and military are to be paid for by the federal government.
Schools should be a state deal. In my state if you own or are buying a home you pay school tax.

Which is wrong. A single person without Children, has no business paying for schools.

Health care is a personal deal. If I wish to help, it is my call, if your family wants to help, it is their call, if you church wants to help it is their call, not the government.

Education is a personal deal. If a person wishes to pay to send their child to school, it is their call. If their church wants to help, that is their call, not the government.

 

[abcgrad94]

So you received a hand up, but you are unwilling to extend the same courtesy?

My tax dollars already fund that "hand up" that you speak of, and the recipients of it have the same chance I did.

You're avoiding my question. Why can't people simply work their way up and earn their needs and wants? After all, I'm living proof it CAN be done.

 

[targus]

Havensdad - a personal question.

As I understand it you have no medical insurance.

What is your plan if your wife or one of your children become seriously ill?

 

[Havensdad]

My tax dollars already fund that "hand up" that you speak of, and the recipients of it have the same chance I did.

You're avoiding my question. Why can't people simply work their way up and earn their needs and wants? After all, I'm living proof it CAN be done.

Possible: not guaranteed. It is really simple math: there are 2.5 million available jobs currently in the U.S., vs. 11 million people currently unemployed. Note that this number ONLY includes those who are actively looking for work: it does not count homeless, nor other categories, such as disabled persons.

 

[Havensdad]

Havensdad - a personal question.

As I understand it you have no medical insurance.

What is your plan if your wife or one of your children become seriously ill?

My friend, I and my wife were called by God into the ministry. He has provided for our food, clothing, gas etc.: I can only assume he will provide in those cases as well. We have many family members and friends who support our work, we are part of a church, etc. We have a good support structure, and a loving creator. I have no worries.

 

[targus]

My friend, I and my wife were called by God into the ministry. He has provided for our food, clothing, gas etc.: I can only assume he will provide in those cases as well. We have many family members and friends who support our work, we are part of a church, etc. We have a good support structure, and a loving creator. I have no worries.

I am not asking if you have worries.

I am asking what is your plan if your wife or one of your children become seriously ill?

 

[Havensdad]

I am not asking if you have worries.

I am asking what is your plan if your wife or one of your children become seriously ill?

Trust God to provide, just as He has done thus far.

 

[targus]

Trust God to provide, just as He has done thus far.

Then why don't you trust that God will also provide for the other uninsured people?

 

[Havensdad]

Then why don't you trust that God will also provide for the other uninsured people?

Why do you tithe? Why did Jesus, when he told the story of the Good Samaritan, condemn the priest who passed by the half dead man, yet God himself, according to scripture ordains the misfortunes of Christians when they share the gospel? (Such as Paul who was beaten, and left for dead)

The answer is this: God's sovereignty does not relieve us of personal responsibility to the poor. Just because he has called me to trust him in a special circumstance, does not relieve me, nor this nation, of it's responsibility to the "widows and orphans.'