"God became man so that we might become God"

[CatholicConvert]

Uhhhhhh.....3AMom....

You put the wrong sign up for Carson. It's we Orthodox who use incense at every Liturgy, not the Romans.

Fun icon.

Would someone mind telling me how you guys do that?

Brother Ed

 

[Carson Weber]

Ed,

You are not an Orthodox, for St. Pete's sake. You are an Eastern Catholic, and we use incense at the university on various Feast Days.

 

[Rakka Rage]

This isn't an outrageous teaching that only Catholics hold to. Basically, it's as fundamental to Christianity as the Trinity.

becoming God may be fundamental to Catholics, but I can assure you it is not considered fundamental to Christians i know. and yes it is outrageous.

but again... i realize that you have no authority to believe what you want and if if i really want to change your position on anything i must argue with the pope and not you.

 

[CatholicConvert]

Carson --

Dear brother, if you will go over to our web site, you will find various references to what it means to be Byzantine.

One of the nomenclatures is "Eastern Orthodox in Communion with Rome."

Everything in our praxis is Orthodox, not Latin.

We are both Orthodox and Catholic -- a strange hibrid indeed.

Brother Ed

 

[Carson Weber]

becoming God may be fundamental to Catholics, but I can assure you it is not considered fundamental to Christians i know. and yes it is outrageous.

Rakka, I understand your opinion. However, you need to address the Scripture that I presented, which teaches Christian doctrine.

I wrote, "Yes, there is only one God, and, he has only one nature: the divine nature. As Christians, our salvation is our being made 'partakers of the divine nature' (That's in 2 Pet 1:4)."

Are you going to reply to this? If Scripture teaches it, aren't you, as a Christian, supposed to believe it?

 

[Carson Weber]

One of the nomenclatures is "Eastern Orthodox in Communion with Rome."

I've never heard of that before.

Everything in our praxis is Orthodox, not Latin.

Ehh - You're "Eastern". The Latins are orthodox as well.

We are both Orthodox and Catholic -- a strange hibrid indeed.

Yeah, it's so strange that I think it's a bad idea to use the term "Orthodox" when referring to yourself.

 

[Rakka Rage]

Are you going to reply to this? If Scripture teaches it, aren't you, as a Christian, supposed to believe it?

i assure you, i do believe the Bible. "partaking in the divine nature" is not "becoming God"

 

[trying2understand]

Originally posted by Rakka Rage:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Are you going to reply to this? If Scripture teaches it, aren't you, as a Christian, supposed to believe it?

i assure you, i do believe the Bible. "partaking in the divine nature" is not "becoming God" </font>[/QUOTE]Please, explain then what it does mean to partake in the divine nature.

 

[Carson Weber]

i assure you, i do believe the Bible. "partaking in the divine nature" is not "becoming God"

Well, let's see here.

The Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, who is God, became man, partaking in the human nature.

Christians, who are human, become God, partaking in the divine nature.

Do you see the correspondence?

How many divine natures are there?

 

[LisaMC]

3AngelsMom,

Signs of the Times.

That organization is oozing of prophetic fulfillment.

One world religion anyone?

I was thinking this brought 2 Thess 2:3 to mind.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

[ February 12, 2003, 09:41 PM: Message edited by: LisaMC ]

 

[Carson Weber]

Hi Lisa,

What is your point?

Are you calling John Paul II a man of perdition?

Do you know anything about Karol Wojtyla?

 

[LisaMC]

Carson,

(I'm not laughing at you or John Paul II) It's just that I was afraid someone would ask that question.

No. I'm not calling John Paul II the "man of perdition." I was referencing the "great falling away" that will occur before the man of perdition is revealed and before Christ returns for His saints.

 

[Rakka Rage]

Christians, who are human, become God, partaking in the divine nature.

i agree that if we did become God we would be partaking in the divine nature. but if we partake of the divine nature we do not automatically become god. we may only become more like God, not actually becoming God.

when you partake of pie do you become pie?

 

[Carson Weber]

if we partake of the divine nature we do not automatically become god. we may only become more like God, not actually becoming God.

I think you mean to say that we retain our human nature when we share in God's nature, and I agree.

when you partake of pie do you become pie?

When Jesus partook of human nature, did he become human (without, of course, losing his divinity)?

 

[CatholicConvert]

No. I'm not calling John Paul II the "man of perdition." I was referencing the "great falling away" that will occur before the man of perdition is revealed and before Christ returns for His saints.

Lisa dear --

This part of eschatology has already happened and is over.

Christ made an interesting promise in Matthew 16:28:

Mt 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Christ promised that all who were standing right there listening to Him would not taste of death before His coming in His kingdom. Which, of course, means that He already has come in His kingdom and is present with us now as our King.

The great falling away was a reference to the apostasy of the Jews between AD 33 and AD 70. St. Paul warned believers not to get caught up in it.

I look for no son of perdition to come. Only the Son of God, to wrap up time, resurrect the dead from their graves (John 5: 28 - 29) and begin the timeless eternal and permanent reign of God over all.

Brother Ed

 

[LisaMC]

Ed,

So, was the Son of Perdition revealed? Who was he?

 

[The Harvest]

wow, this discussion is mind boggling. i cannot believe people who quote the Bible but miss the most important part. have any of you read these verses?

Ephesians 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Titus 3
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Romans 10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

All your sacraments and praying to paintings/pictures/statues, whichever you choose will take you to Hell just like anything else. Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and His payment for sin ALONE, will take a person to Heaven.

How many of you can say that you are 100% sure you are going to Heaven when you die? You can if you accept Christ as the payment for your sins.

1 John 5
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

John 3
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

 

[Carson Weber]

Hi there Harvest,

I noticed that you were quoting from my favorite Book: the Holy Bible. That is, God's Word.

You asked, "How many of you can say that you are 100% sure you are going to Heaven when you die? You can if you accept Christ as the payment for your sins."

I have a moral assurance that I will be saved when I die if I don't reject Jesus Christ before that time occurs.

If you are so presumptuous as to think that there is nothing you can do to cause you to fall from grace, you need to read the entire New Testament, not just the isolated verses that your sect has pounded into your head.

"I want to raise a question in regards to the great proof text 1 John 5:13 where John begins the Epilogue to his first epistle. It is often used as a verification that one ‘knows’ for sure they have eternal life. It is often asked of Catholics, ‘Do you know you are going to heaven, are you positive of eternal life?’ To which the Catholic usually stumbles around and looks foolish as the great proof text is clearly read. I would make two points: first, 1 John 5:13 begins the epilogue to the epistle and the intent of John’s letter was primarily to defend the true Faith against the heresies of the Gnostics who said one needed special knowledge (implying a knowledge the Christians did not have) to have eternal life. John is refuting the Gnostics and comforting the Christians that they did have the true knowledge and the true knowledge was the true and only way to eternal life. It was not meant as a proof text between those who hold eternal security and those who deny it. It had a higher purpose which had little to do with the question of eternal security or absolute knowledge and confidence of eternal life. This is born out in the second point I would like to make and that is the verse, as the epilogue, may very well be a summary of the preceding document. It should be noted that the conditional word ‘if’ is used 21 times in the preceding text and could very well be saying, ‘If you understand and abide by the conditions of this letter, if you love one another, if you avoid sin, if you believe in the Son, etc. etc., you may know that you have eternal life. It is probably meant to be a Moral Certainty of which the preceding pages gives you a yardstick to measure yourself by. John Stott says in his commentary The Epistles of John, ‘They (the recipients of John’s letter) had been unsettled by the false teachers and become unsure of their spiritual state. Throughout the epistle John has been giving them criteria (doctrinal, moral, social) by which to test themselves and others. His purpose was to establish their assurance.’ But at the same time, could they securely rest in their absolute assurance of salvation if their lives were not living up to the ‘criteria’ John gave them? One should be cautious in reading too much into a text without understanding its context, and the rest of Christian teaching." - Stephen K. Ray, Crossing the Tiber (San Francisco: Ignatius Press 1997)

God bless,

Carson

 

[The Harvest]

Carson, you believe you will be saved after you die if you don't reject Christ while you are alive. Have you ever actually accepted Christ? See Rom 10:9-10, 13. Also in John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Also Heb 9:27 says And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: Once you are at that judgment, your fate is sealed. The decision you make in this life determines what will happen after you die. You are either saved now or never.

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by Carson Weber:
I have a moral assurance that I will be saved when I die if I don't reject Jesus Christ before that time occurs.

Murph***Brother Harvest beat me to reminding you that not accepting is rejection

If you are so presumptuous as to think that there is nothing you can do to cause you to fall from grace, you need to read the entire New Testament, not just the isolated verses that your sect has pounded into your head.

*** Murph sometimes my head hurts from all the pounding

thanks for your concern but I will rest securely in Jesus hands fro as He told Paul his grace is sufficent.

‘If you understand and abide by the conditions of this letter, if you love one another, if you avoid sin, if you believe in the Son, etc. etc., you may know that you have eternal life.

*** Murph, I think my favorite question for you "fall from grace" fellas is how do you know whether or not you have stepped over the line? i enjoy the comment "if you avoid sin" the wages of sin is death and no one can avoid it completely, only by the blood of the lamb can our penalty be paid for.

It is probably meant to be a Moral Certainty of which the preceding pages gives you a yardstick to measure yourself by.

**** Murph, the bible tells us that all judgement is given to the Son (not His mama) faith in Christ is the yardstick.

One should be cautious in reading too much into a text without understanding its context, and the rest of Christian teaching."

Murph*** one should also be cautious in overlooking grace no matter how well we think we understand the scripture.