God commands disobedience to his word

[Matt Janes]

In another thread, he insisted he isn't Catholic, but he clearly holds to Catholic teaching about the "communion of the saints", sola fide, and sola scriptura. He's making the same arguments, using the same talking points, and telling the same lies about Protestants that Catholics do.

Clearly, he was not telling the truth when he said he's not Catholic.

The only thing missing is the "30,000 denominations" lie.

Depends on what you mean by Catholic. I don't accept Catholic dogma or all the traditions...

However, it is Catholics that other Christians are calling Pagan n the whore of Babylon , so it is Catholics that I will defend.

Also, I have received much Grace from praying the Rosary. If that makes me Catholic whatever.... I take from each denomination what works.

It's pointless arguing with you because I've already proven to you that Sola scriptura is unbiblical... Yet you insist I haven't and fail to show me anywhere that the Bible teaches that scripture is the sole, the only, and the final Authority.

It's pointless debating with you.

Where did the Bible ever tell anybody which Canon of scripture was correct, or tell church leaders to compile the scriptures into one volume? There was a need for church Authority outside of scripture. That is obvious.

Jesus says if your eye causes you to sin pluck it out. My eye causes me to sin, should I pluck it out? Jesus said those who live by the sword will die by the sword, and then he says buy a sword, and said I have come to bring a sword not peace...

Jesus said you should hate your mother and your father and your brother and sister.

Jesus said many will become eunuchs for the kingdom of God. The definition of eunuch is a castrated person. Any volunteers?

Scripture is difficult to understand and leads people to opposite opinions.

 

[Matt Janes]

The King James version, which is generally considered the closest in translation, says 'kill'

 

[JohnDeereFan]

It's pointless arguing with you because I've already proven to you that Sola scriptura is unbiblical...

No, repeatedly claiming you've proven something isn't actually proof.

Yet you insist I haven't and fail to show me anywhere that the Bible teaches that scripture is the sole, the only, and the final Authority.

Yeah, the reason I haven't shown you that is because that isn't what sola scriptura is.

It's pointless debating with you.

When did you ever try to debate me? Just repeating, "Nuh-uh" isn't debating.

Where did the Bible ever tell anybody which Canon of scripture was correct, or tell church leaders to compile the scriptures into one volume? There was a need for church Authority outside of scripture. That is obvious.

Nobody has claimed there wasn't a need for Church authority. The issue is what authority guides the Church.

Jesus said those who live by the sword will die by the sword, and then he says buy a sword, and said I have come to bring a sword not peace...

So then, you're comparing something Jesus said in one context to something Jesus said in an entirely different context to a metaphor Jesus used to show that Jesus contradicted Himself?

And you wonder why we think you're a fool.

Jesus said many will become eunuchs for the kingdom of God. The definition of eunuch is a castrated person. Any volunteers?

Actually, this is isn't a command. It's descriptive, not prescriptive, and is a metaphor, at that.

Scripture is difficult to understand and leads people to opposite opinions.

And yet, our children are able to grasp it easily.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

The King James version, which is generally considered the closest in translation, says 'kill'

Actually, the KJV renders it "murder" in Matthew 19:18.

 

[Matt Janes]

No, repeatedly claiming you've proven something isn't actually proof.



Yeah, the reason I haven't shown you that is because that isn't what sola scriptura is.



When did you ever try to debate me? Just repeating, "Nuh-uh" isn't debating.



Nobody has claimed there wasn't a need for Church authority. The issue is what authority guides the Church.



So then, you're comparing something Jesus said in one context to something Jesus said in an entirely different context to a metaphor Jesus used to show that Jesus contradicted Himself?

And you wonder why we think you're a fool.



Actually, this is isn't a command. It's descriptive, not prescriptive, and is a metaphor, at that.



And yet, our children are able to grasp it easily.

That's why more children belong to Catholic and Orthodox Churches than Protestant churches , far more .... really sounds like children do get it

 

[Matt Janes]

Actually, the KJV renders it "murder" in Matthew 19:18.

Jesus didn't always speak literal... Look at how he used the word eunuch

 

[Matt Janes]

And you haven't been honest when you say Sola scriptura does not mean the Bible is the final Authority. When I asked you what the final Authority is for settling disputes, you said scripture. That's not found in Scripture. At the Council of Jerusalem, the apostles had no scripture to back up their decision that Christians didn't need to be circumcised or follow Mosaic law

 

[JohnDeereFan]

That's why more children belong to Catholic and Orthodox Churches than Protestant churches , far more .... really sounds like children do get it

What's your source for that claim?

How did you come to the conclusion that numbers equal hermeneutic accuracy?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

And you haven't been honest when you say Sola scriptura does not mean the Bible is the final Authority.

Actually, I never said it doesn't mean the final authority.

When I asked you what the final Authority is for settling disputes, you said scripture.

So, now, in the very next sentence after accusing me of lying by saying the Bible is not the final authority, you admit that I did say that the Bible is the final authority.

You can't even keep your own lies straight.

At the Council of Jerusalem, the apostles had no scripture to back up their decision that Christians didn't need to be circumcised or follow Mosaic law

Actually, I corrected you on this in the other thread.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Jesus didn't always speak literal... Look at how he used the word eunuch

First of all, your claim was that the KJV doesn't say "murder". I showed you where it says "murder".

Second, what in Matthew 19:18 indicates He was not speaking literally?

 

[delizzle]

A Catholic believes the holy Spirit guides church councils to settle disputes on faith and morals. How do you know that they aren't guided?

Protestant Churches are founded by men (with an unbiblical basis.).

Catholics believe Jesus set up a visible authority guided by the holy spirit to settle disputes on faith and morals. The Bible is a Catholic book.

I'm not asking you to be Catholic but see where Catholics are coming from and don't be hostile to their faith and practices.

People may despise Catholics all they want and accuse them of false teachings and worshiping the anti-christ. However, the one thing protestants have to say is that the Catholic church got it right when they compiled the bible. I was born and raised Catholic btw.

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[delizzle]

In another thread, he insisted he isn't Catholic, but he clearly holds to Catholic teaching about the "communion of the saints", sola fide, and sola scriptura. He's making the same arguments, using the same talking points, and telling the same lies about Protestants that Catholics do.

Clearly, he was not telling the truth when he said he's not Catholic.

The only thing missing is the "30,000 denominations" lie.

It sounds more like him playing "Devils Advocate". No pun intended.

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[Matt Janes]

Actually, I never said it doesn't mean the final authority.



So, now, in the very next sentence after accusing me of lying by saying the Bible is not the final authority, you admit that I did say that the Bible is the final authority.

You can't even keep your own lies straight.



Actually, I corrected you on this in the other thread.

And no where does scripture say scripture is the final authority or that everything must be tested to add up with scripture.

Sola scriptura (Latin: by Scripture alone) is a Christian theological doctrine which holds that the Christian Scriptures are the sole infallible rule of faith and practice.

Then find out where such a Doctrine is biblically sound. You have not done it.

The first Christians obeyed church Authority.

I'm not telling anyone to convert to Catholicism, just respect those Christians who decide that God works through church councils. It is biblical from the council of Jerusalem that church authorities are guided by the Holy Spirit in settling matters of doctrinal disputes.

How do you know God wasn't speaking through church councils like Ephesus?

If a person wants to use the Bible as their final guide and sole rule for theology, that's fine with me , and I'm not going to try to convince them otherwise , until they start accusing other Christians of being satanic or pagan.

If a person finds that they receive Grace from some friends they believe are in high places, feel free to reject it... But for all you know, their experience may have been mandated by God. If God can heal people through a bronze serpent, certainly God can heal people through his mother or soul in heaven or crucifix

 

[Matt Janes]

It sounds more like him playing "Devils Advocate". No pun intended.

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Precisely! For the sake of Christian Unity it has become necessary

 

[HankD]

And no where does scripture say scripture is the final authority or that everything must be tested to add up with scripture.

Correct - that belief is an element held by faith.

The Baptist distinctive concerning the Bible is not exactly the "Sola Scriptura" of Martin Luther:

Biblical Authority

The Bible is the final authority in all matters of belief and practice because the Bible is inspired by God and bears the absolute authority of God Himself. Whatever the Bible affirms, Baptists accept as true. No human opinion or decree of any church group can override the Bible. Even creeds and confessions of faith, which attempt to articulate the theology of Scripture, do not carry Scripture’s inherent authority.
2 Timothy 3:15–17; 1 Thessalonians 2:13; 2 Peter 1:20, 21

Baptist DistinctivesGARBC

HankD

 

[delizzle]

Correct - that belief is an element held by faith.

The Baptist distinctive concerning the Bible is not exactly the "Sola Scriptura" of Martin Luther:



Baptist DistinctivesGARBC

HankD

I agree. The bible is the standard and has been appropriately declared to be the "final" authority. However, nowhere in the Bible does it declare it to be the "only" authority. The Catholic church could be correct in all doctrines and practices that agree with the Bible. It's the things that contradict the Bible that led me to leave the Roman Catholic Church.

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[HankD]

I agree. The bible is the standard and has been appropriately declared to be the "final" authority. However, nowhere in the Bible does it declare it to be the "only" authority. The Catholic church could be correct in all doctrines and practices that agree with the Bible. It's the things that contradict the Bible that led me to leave the Roman Catholic Church.

Agreed, I am also a former Catholic.

HankD

 

[Matt Janes]

How do you know the Council of Ephesus, which approved of Marian devotion, wasn't inspired by the Holy Spirit?

 

[Matt Janes]

The Council of Ephesus was a council of Christian bishops convened in Ephesus (near present-day Selçuk in Turkey) in AD 431 by the Roman Emperor Theodosius II. This third ecumenical council, an effort to attain consensus in the church through an assembly representing all of Christendom,[1] confirmed the original Nicene Creed,[2] and condemned the teachings of Nestorius, Patriarch of Constantinople, who held that the Virgin Mary may be called the Christotokos, "Birth Giver of Christ" but not the Theotokos, "Birth Giver of God". It met in June and July 431 at the Church of Maryin Ephesus in Anatolia.
Council of Ephesus - Wikipedia

I believe that Council was inspired by the Holy Spirit. It was before the Catholic Church became corrupt

 

[Yeshua1]

He said not to make a graven image

The commandment is to not make one of GOD....Unless you think the Bronze Serpant was God?