God Controls Hearts and Thoughts as He Says in His Word

[preacher4truth]

So... He controls our thoughts, puts some thoughts in our mind, but not all thoughts. So .... Which thoughts does He put there?

Maybe you should go study out these truths, and prove them by Scripture. Or are you just doing drive-bys again?

 

[JesusFan]

What actually happened here jc, is you've used a specific reference proving your point by Scripture. Or better yet, to prove your point is Scriptural.

I mean, how dare you prove, that God Himself, allowed and permitted sinful man, to nail His Son on a tree, and doing so, accomplishing a great purpose?

How dare you used this to prove it!!! :laugh:

Therefore, he hit the moot button, as is the norm for passages that prove him to be inaccurate.

Great job. God, in fact, allows sin. God, in fact, uses it to His Glory and to accomplish His purposes. This does not mean, God tempts man. That many on here fail to distinguish between these things is seriously hard to understand as to why.

- Blessings

Pretty basic here...

Either God IS aware of all things , and in control of all things, He either predetermines/causes thing to come to pass, or else that He permits things to happen and still has that worked into His "master plan" or else we have a God who is limited and needs us to help Him out in trying to still remain in control and in charge!

 

[preacher4truth]

Pretty basic here...

Either God IS aware of all things , and in control of all things, He either predetermines/causes thing to come to pass, or else that He permits things to happen and still has that worked into His "master plan" or else we have a God who is limited and needs us to help Him out in trying to still remain in control and in charge!

Which is exactly why I charge their inaccuracy and theology as limiting God. And this assessment is 100% accurate.

Timothy Keller describes some of this in his book "Counterfeit Gods."

Also, I believe J.I. Packer does so in "Knowing God."

 

[JesusFan]

Which is exactly why I charge their inaccuracy and theology as limiting God. And this assessment is 100% accurate.

Timothy Keller describes some of this in his book "Counterfeit Gods."

Also, I believe J.I. Packer does so in "Knowing God."

Knowing God is a great book...

Just curious, though i do not advocate everything that he holds to.... BUT

His Cross of Christ also a great read, by John Stott, every read it?

 

[preacher4truth]

Knowing God is a great book...

Just curious, though i do not advocate everything that he holds to.... BUT

His Cross of Christ also a great read, by John Stott, every read it?

Have not. I will some day. I have a stack of books to get through.

And guess what? Not one of them is by John Calvin!!!!!

Isn't it cool, I just happen to believe ALL the Scriptures about God, and His Sovereignty, am labeled a calvinist, and even hyper, yet haven't read his works?

:smilewinkgrin:

 

[DHK]

In other words, DHK, you want to turn your blind eyes from the truth. Look whos' talking proof-texting. In other words someone used Scripture that clearly refutes your position?

My position wasn't refuted. Romans 8:28, previously referred to, has nothing to do with unbelievers. That is taken out of context. It speaks of believers only. The one who uses that verse to speak of the world in general including unbelievers is proof-texting disregarding the context of the verse.

You have to limit God, because you're scared of the reality that He permits sin.

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said that. You are quick with the false allegations. If you think you know what I said, quote me anyway.

You can't separate permission from "author" because you're incapable obviously. So what do you do? We talk about God controlling and permitting all things, and you get twisted and say "we're making Him the author" in essence. Nope. You're the one who fashions God to your liking.

I never said anything about God not permitting sin. Go back to school and learn how to read and comprehend.

The crucifixion is not a moot point, that's total nonsense. You would twist anything, including this priceless event so you can be what you think is "right." And this is really really sad.

It is a moot point. When Christ, as God, came to die for our sin, it wasn't sin was it? Is Christ a sinner? Is that what you believe? He came out of love, out of his own free will (oh, I forgot--you don't believe in free will: he must have sinned. )

God permitted it, you limit the fact of it's grieviousness, and of God being its Author, because it happened to Gods Son? Wow.

God permitted Christ to die for our sin!!!!!!!!!
Absurd. Christ is God. He came because he wanted to. If you deny the deity of Christ you don't belong on this board. IT is for Christians only.

How utterly foolish.

That sin, nailing Him to the cross was YOU pal. You. Your sins. Mine. Others. You get it? And yet you minimalize it because it happened to God, and can't accept He as the author and the One who ulitmately permitted it? Very interesting. And quite pitiful of you.

He permits sin; he is not the author of it; as you would have some to believe.

I've never seen a child of God, ever minimalize the crucifixion of Christ as you do here. And you do so to "secure" your weak theological stance that fails to see ALL Who God is, and to keep Him fashioned to your liking? Unbelievable to say the least.

And you have portrayed God himself as a sinner. You are one to talk.

The thing is, God permits sin. He controls all things.

Permits and controls all things are two different concepts. He permits all things, but he doesn't control all things. He doesn't control my thoughts. I do. I choose to worship him or not to worship him. He doesn't control that. He only knows ahead of time what I will do. In that you err, and go entirely against the Bible. The commands to meditate on the Bible would be moot or entirely useless if God controls all my thoughts.

And you? You just don't like that too much. Too bad, He's God anyhow.

It doesn't matter what I like or dislike; it is what the Bible teaches. And what the Bible teaches you have refused. You have believed the teaching of a man like Calvin over God. And even Calvin doesn't believe some of the things you believe.

And sin does accomplish the will of God. Pharoah? Judas? Hello? Crucifixion? Hello? More bad theology from you?

The Lord went to the cross willingly. He went to the cross in spite of their sin. Their sin was still wrong. Christ gave Judas every chance to repent. He refused. He didn't have to betray Christ. He chose to.

In your world? Man controls things. In Winmans, he grants more power to Satan than he will admit to God. In God's world? He controls all things and some just don't like that too much, now do they? And He clearly uses sin to accomplish His purpose.

In the world man chooses to sin; God doesn't control the actions of man. God allows them to sin; he doesn't control their actions. They choose to sin and someday will give account for their sin. If God controls their actions then God himself will give account for their sin. That is absurd theology.

I thought I've seen alot until I saw this. This is unbelievable nonsense. The thing is DHK, anything that proves you wrong is a moot point to you. Even the crucifixion, and even Scripture.

You believe in a sinful Christ. You have denied his deity. You shouldn't even be on this board.

 

[DHK]

he is God, but also was/is fully Human....
And as such, was NOT able to control all things while on earth, as he submitted to the Will of His father in ALL things, left it outside His direct controlling!

That again is moot. Go further back into history. He left the glories of heaven even before he became a man.
"God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
He sent. Before he became a man; from the glories of heaven.
Then it was Christ incarnate. And he came out of love; not forced to do anything. Always keep in mind that he never gave up his deity. He was always the second person of the triune Godhead.

this Man, delivered over by the (Z)predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, (AA)you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. 24

Don't know. doesn't this sound like God was allowing and directing everything to come to pass in a Soverign fashiopn?

Christ is God. Christ submitted to the first person of the trinity while on earth, yet at the same time never gave up his deity. He rebuked Peter saying: "Don't you know I could call 12 legions of angels." He didn't have to go to the cross. He could have called 72,000 angels to destroy the Roman army and the wicked Jews. But he went willingly, out of love. He said: "I lay my life down; I take it up again. No man takes it from me."

 

[Rippon]

You are quick with the false allegations.

Yeah,like your false allegation that John Calvin was a plagiarist.

 

[preacher4truth]

My position wasn't refuted. Romans 8:28, previously referred to, has nothing to do with unbelievers. That is taken out of context. It speaks of believers only. The one who uses that verse to speak of the world in general including unbelievers is proof-texting disregarding the context of the verse.

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said that. You are quick with the false allegations. If you think you know what I said, quote me anyway.

I never said anything about God not permitting sin. Go back to school and learn how to read and comprehend.

It is a moot point. When Christ, as God, came to die for our sin, it wasn't sin was it? Is Christ a sinner? Is that what you believe? He came out of love, out of his own free will (oh, I forgot--you don't believe in free will: he must have sinned.)

God permitted Christ to die for our sin!!!!!!!!!
Absurd. Christ is God. He came because he wanted to. If you deny the deity of Christ you don't belong on this board. IT is for Christians only.


He permits sin; he is not the author of it; as you would have some to believe.

And you have portrayed God himself as a sinner. You are one to talk.

Permits and controls all things are two different concepts. He permits all things, but he doesn't control all things. He doesn't control my thoughts. I do. I choose to worship him or not to worship him. He doesn't control that. He only knows ahead of time what I will do. In that you err, and go entirely against the Bible. The commands to meditate on the Bible would be moot or entirely useless if God controls all my thoughts.

It doesn't matter what I like or dislike; it is what the Bible teaches. And what the Bible teaches you have refused. You have believed the teaching of a man like Calvin over God. And even Calvin doesn't believe some of the things you believe.

The Lord went to the cross willingly. He went to the cross in spite of their sin. Their sin was still wrong. Christ gave Judas every chance to repent. He refused. He didn't have to betray Christ. He chose to.

In the world man chooses to sin; God doesn't control the actions of man. God allows them to sin; he doesn't control their actions. They choose to sin and someday will give account for their sin. If God controls their actions then God himself will give account for their sin. That is absurd theology.

You believe in a sinful Christ. You have denied his deity. You shouldn't even be on this board.

Absolutely false. I confirm Christ is God. I believe in a sinful Christ? Absolutely false. I guess if you think you say something enough, it comes true?

I've never stated God the Author of sin. That is your conclusion when you see God in Scripture using sin and sinful man to accomplish His will.

It is a moot point. When Christ, as God, came to die for our sin, it wasn't sin was it? Is Christ a sinner? Is that what you believe? He came out of love, out of his own free will (oh, I forgot--you don't believe in free will: he must have sinned.)

"It wasn't sin?" Then what was it? The thing you don't understand is that when God punished His Son, for our sins, He did so justly. That is how effective His imputation was, in our place. Do I believe Christ a sinner? Absolutely not. But you cannot see God allowing sin to accomplish His purposes. He did so through His son. God mooted your point. I'm sure what you are really trying to say when you say "it wasn't sin, was it?" you are trying to say "it wasn't HIS sin?" Uh...ya think?

You're correct, I don't believe in free will. How you make this into "he must have sinned" is unfortunate. But this is seen throughout your threads, teying to make me say something(s) I totally deny.

The Lord went to the cross willingly. He went to the cross in spite of their sin. Their sin was still wrong. Christ gave Judas every chance to repent. He refused. He didn't have to betray Christ. He chose to.

Nothing you've said above denies that He allowed this sin, and used it for His own glory. He allowed sin to accomplish His purposes. Who denies Judas chose to betray Christ? That doesn't diminish the truth that God allowed the sin, to accomplish His will.


"What the Bible teaches, I have refused?" Nope. Show me something from the Bible I have denied to believe, or just put an end to your accusations. I believe in all Scripture, not just the parts that make me feel comfy. All of it.

All of your drawn out assumptions and accusations of heresy, don't make it true. Stop the saying I don't believe Christ is God, and that I believe He was sinful. All of this is patently false.

This is your second attempt of accusing me heretical. This is not allowed on the BB.

- Blessings and Peace

 

[DHK]

Yeah,like your false allegation that John Calvin was a plagiarist.

We are over that now, ok. Don't need to bring it up again.

 

[Rippon]

We are over that now, ok. Don't need to bring it up again.

I'm not over your slander. You aren't man enough or Christian enough to apologize for your false allegation.

 

[JesusFan]

That again is moot. Go further back into history. He left the glories of heaven even before he became a man.
"God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
He sent. Before he became a man; from the glories of heaven.
Then it was Christ incarnate. And he came out of love; not forced to do anything. Always keep in mind that he never gave up his deity. He was always the second person of the triune Godhead.

True, BUT the father was the One who originated the Plan to send His Son to earth to die and atone for sinners, Christ agreed with that, as the truine God always in perfect agreement 1 in essence 3 in persons


Christ is God. Christ submitted to the first person of the trinity while on earth, yet at the same time never gave up his deity. He rebuked Peter saying: "Don't you know I could call 12 legions of angels." He didn't have to go to the cross. He could have called 72,000 angels to destroy the Roman army and the wicked Jews. But he went willingly, out of love. He said: "I lay my life down; I take it up again. No man takes it from me."

Again, he willingly laid aside the use of those divine attributes while upon the earth as a man, choosing to rely upon the father and the Holy Spirit, not His own divinity which He always still had..

 

[DHK]

Absolutely false. I confirm Christ is God. I believe in a sinful Christ? Absolutely false. I guess if you think you say something enough, it comes true?

I draw conclusions from what you have said and they are not false, as you will see from what you continue to post.

I've never stated God the Author of sin. That is your conclusion when you see God in Scripture using sin and sinful man to accomplish His will.

Your deterministic outlook on life, including God controlling everything good and evil traces evil back to God. How then can God not be the author of sin with that kind of theology.

"It wasn't sin?" Then what was it? The thing you don't understand is that when God punished His Son, for our sins, He did so justly.

That statement in and of itself denies the deity of Christ. Think it through. Christ is God! God cannot punish God! Christ came willingly to this earth. Christ said: "I lay my life down; I take it up again; No man takes it from me." This is God incarnate suffering for our sins. If you deny this you deny the deity of Christ.

That is how effective His imputation was, in our place. Do I believe Christ a sinner? Absolutely not. But you cannot see God allowing sin to accomplish His purposes. He did so through His son. God mooted your point. I'm sure what you are really trying to say when you say "it wasn't sin, was it?" you are trying to say "it wasn't HIS sin?" Uh...ya think?

Rather, think of it this way. God loved you enough that if you were the only one of the face of this earth God would have come and died just for you. It was out of love, in spite of the sins of others.
Yes, God allowed others to sin. I never denied that. But your statement is that he controlled the actions of others including sins and the very thoughts of others. You don't simply say he allows sin, you go to the extent that he controls it. That is going too far.

You're correct, I don't believe in free will. How you make this into "he must have sinned" is unfortunate. But this is seen throughout your threads, teying to make me say something(s) I totally deny.

Christ chose freely to come and die for our sins. I hope you believe that. It is an example of free will.
We are to be conformed to the image of Christ. Part of that is the free will to make good choices. I hope you can see that.

Nothing you've said above denies that He allowed this sin, and used it for His own glory. He allowed sin to accomplish His purposes. Who denies Judas chose to betray Christ? That doesn't diminish the truth that God allowed the sin, to accomplish His will.

He did allow sin. I never denied that. He didn't force them. Why do you think I don't believe that God allowed Judas to sin? Did I say that? No. What I did say is that Judas didn't have to sin. He could have chosen not to sin. Jesus gave him every chance to repent, but he didn't. In saying that I am agreeing that he allowed him to sin. Can't you see that?? And at the same time he had the free will to choose to betray him. He did, and then saw the evil he did and was sorry (but not repentant), and went out and hung himself (of his own free will). He chose to do it. And God allowed it.

"What the Bible teaches, I have refused?" Nope. Show me something from the Bible I have denied to believe, or just put an end to your accusations. I believe in all Scripture, not just the parts that make me feel comfy. All of it.

As long as you are adamant that Christ as God did not choose of his own will to come out of love and die for our sins you deny his deity, and make him only a man. That is heresy. It is not simply the Father sending a "human" son. It is God himself choosing to come to earth and dying for our sin. Let's be straight on that.

All of your drawn out assumptions and accusations of heresy, don't make it true. Stop the saying I don't believe Christ is God, and that I believe He was sinful. All of this is patently false.

Then be clear on what you say. It wasn't simply a human that died for our sin; it was God himself. He was the God-man.

This is your second attempt of accusing me heretical. This is not allowed on the BB.

It is an attempt for you not to spread heresy by accurately stating the truth. God came from heaven. God died for our sins. God did it out of love. God did it out of his own free will.

 

[preacher4truth]

I draw conclusions from what you have said and they are not false, as you will see from what you continue to post.

Your deterministic outlook on life, including God controlling everything good and evil traces evil back to God. How then can God not be the author of sin with that kind of theology.

That statement in and of itself denies the deity of Christ. Think it through. Christ is God! God cannot punish God! Christ came willingly to this earth. Christ said: "I lay my life down; I take it up again; No man takes it from me." This is God incarnate suffering for our sins. If you deny this you deny the deity of Christ.

Rather, think of it this way. God loved you enough that if you were the only one of the face of this earth God would have come and died just for you. It was out of love, in spite of the sins of others.
Yes, God allowed others to sin. I never denied that. But your statement is that he controlled the actions of others including sins and the very thoughts of others. You don't simply say he allows sin, you go to the extent that he controls it. That is going too far.

Christ chose freely to come and die for our sins. I hope you believe that. It is an example of free will.
We are to be conformed to the image of Christ. Part of that is the free will to make good choices. I hope you can see that.

He did allow sin. I never denied that. He didn't force them. Why do you think I don't believe that God allowed Judas to sin? Did I say that? No. What I did say is that Judas didn't have to sin. He could have chosen not to sin. Jesus gave him every chance to repent, but he didn't. In saying that I am agreeing that he allowed him to sin. Can't you see that?? And at the same time he had the free will to choose to betray him. He did, and then saw the evil he did and was sorry (but not repentant), and went out and hung himself (of his own free will). He chose to do it. And God allowed it.

As long as you are adamant that Christ as God did not choose of his own will to come out of love and die for our sins you deny his deity, and make him only a man. That is heresy. It is not simply the Father sending a "human" son. It is God himself choosing to come to earth and dying for our sin. Let's be straight on that.

Then be clear on what you say. It wasn't simply a human that died for our sin; it was God himself. He was the God-man.

It is an attempt for you not to spread heresy by accurately stating the truth. God came from heaven. God died for our sins. God did it out of love. God did it out of his own free will.

Brother, you are way out of line. This is accusation #3 of you calling me a heretic on BB. This is not allowed on BB.

I deny all of your false allegations in love. No need to go through all you've said here, line by line, because all of your conclusions are false. Bottom line? You've called me a heretic, again.

We are getting nowhere with this. I don't take this lightly.

- Blessings and peace

 

[JesusFan]

I draw conclusions from what you have said and they are not false, as you will see from what you continue to post.

Your deterministic outlook on life, including God controlling everything good and evil traces evil back to God. How then can God not be the author of sin with that kind of theology.

That statement in and of itself denies the deity of Christ. Think it through. Christ is God! God cannot punish God! Christ came willingly to this earth. Christ said: "I lay my life down; I take it up again; No man takes it from me." This is God incarnate suffering for our sins. If you deny this you deny the deity of Christ.

Rather, think of it this way. God loved you enough that if you were the only one of the face of this earth God would have come and died just for you. It was out of love, in spite of the sins of others.
Yes, God allowed others to sin. I never denied that. But your statement is that he controlled the actions of others including sins and the very thoughts of others. You don't simply say he allows sin, you go to the extent that he controls it. That is going too far.

Christ chose freely to come and die for our sins. I hope you believe that. It is an example of free will.
We are to be conformed to the image of Christ. Part of that is the free will to make good choices. I hope you can see that.

He did allow sin. I never denied that. He didn't force them. Why do you think I don't believe that God allowed Judas to sin? Did I say that? No. What I did say is that Judas didn't have to sin. He could have chosen not to sin. Jesus gave him every chance to repent, but he didn't. In saying that I am agreeing that he allowed him to sin. Can't you see that?? And at the same time he had the free will to choose to betray him. He did, and then saw the evil he did and was sorry (but not repentant), and went out and hung himself (of his own free will). He chose to do it. And God allowed it.

As long as you are adamant that Christ as God did not choose of his own will to come out of love and die for our sins you deny his deity, and make him only a man. That is heresy. It is not simply the Father sending a "human" son. It is God himself choosing to come to earth and dying for our sin. Let's be straight on that.

Then be clear on what you say. It wasn't simply a human that died for our sin; it was God himself. He was the God-man.

It is an attempt for you not to spread heresy by accurately stating the truth. God came from heaven. God died for our sins. God did it out of love. God did it out of his own free will.

The truine God 3 persons are ALWAYS in perfect agreement, but BOTH the Son and Spirit have voluntarily submitted to the Father in all things...

As Jesus Himself said, "Not MY will, But THINE WILL be done!"

So in a sense Jesus was letting His Father "call the shots!"
IF Jesus is willing and able to do that, how MUCH more should beings like us be willing to let "God be God" in His ways and decisions/plans etc?

 

[DHK]

The truine God 3 persons are ALWAYS in perfect agreement, but BOTH the Son and Spirit have voluntarily submitted to the Father in all things...

As Jesus Himself said, "Not MY will, But THINE WILL be done!"

So in a sense Jesus was letting His Father "call the shots!"
IF Jesus is willing and able to do that, how MUCH more should beings like us be willing to let "God be God" in His ways and decisions/plans etc?

Quite true. While on earth, Jesus submitted to his father. He came to do his father's will as he said. But before that, before he came, who was/is Christ. God is spirit. He was/is part of the triune Godhead and could not rightly be separated as such. How do you separate "spirit"? God himself came to earth. He was born as Jesus, yet as God. At that point the second person submitted himself to the first person. Perhaps a difficult concept to grasp. While on earth he became man. But he wasn't man in heaven to begin with. It was God coming to earth from the glories of heaven to begin with.

There were many times in his ministry that he did exercise his divine powers to demonstrate his deity. Those were the "works" that he did, or miracles: the calming of the sea, the multiplication of the bread, the turning of water into wine, the resurrection of Lazarus, etc. These miracles could not be duplicated, not even by the disciples.

The greatest miracle of all was his own resurrection proving once and for all his deity, conquering satan, death and sin.

However, we still have the statement of Scripture that Christ himself said: "I lay my life down; I take it up again; No man takes it from me." He went willingly to the cross, out of love. It was his choice.

 

[DHK]

Brother, you are way out of line. This is accusation #3 of you calling me a heretic on BB. This is not allowed on BB.

I deny all of your false allegations in love. No need to go through all you've said here, line by line, because all of your conclusions are false. Bottom line? You've called me a heretic, again.

We are getting nowhere with this. I don't take this lightly.

- Blessings and peace

In my last post to you, I simply asked you to clarify yourself.
I said if you believe___________, then it is heresy.
If you don't want to clarify your statements, then that is up to you.

 

[preacher4truth]

In my last post to you, I simply asked you to clarify yourself.
I said if you believe___________, then it is heresy.
If you don't want to clarify your statements, then that is up to you.

No friend, you've done more than "simply" that. Above and beyond.

You've accused me 3 times, unfounded, for being a heretic.

I've already clarified my beliefs about your accusations, then you "simply ask me to clarify myself" again, then tag me with being a heretic, again, the third time.

I've been patient with you. There was no need for this from you.

- Blessings and Peace

 

[Gershom]

Maybe you should go study out these truths, and prove them by Scripture. Or are you just doing drive-bys again?

Answer the question. Which thoughts does God put into your mind?

 

[JesusFan]

Answer the question. Which thoughts does God put into your mind?

If God is the one who is putting those thoughts in there...

Are they wrong if God is the one doing it, or doesn't He have the right to do such?