God controls quite a lot or God controls all?

[Reynolds]

I present what God shares in the Bible. If that's circular logic to you, then take it up with God for sharing it with humanity.

You present circular logic from your mind. Scripture is not circular at all. Your argument is pretty much as follows: man is totally depraved and can not seek God without Gods call. Gods call is irresistible because man is not a sovereign over God. All who God calls will accept. No one who is called will not accept. Man can not come without a particular call. If he receives that call, he has to come. And on and on and on.

 

[MennoSota]

You've shown one example, specific to the apostle Paul and you've misinterpreted Ephesians 2:8-9 in an attempt to show another. Besides these dubious examples, please show the other examples that you contend scripture "repeatedly says".



You better ask this phantom person that you continually allege says this, because I'm not claiming that.



Sure. What makes that html text more special than another bit of html text?

I can easily copy and paste multiple verses. It's much more difficult with my ESV version.

Any person who claims that they chose God by having their own faith is presenting a man-centered gospel. So far, you, utilyan and sheep have pushed a man-centered gospel.

 

[MennoSota]

You present circular logic from your mind. Scripture is not circular at all. Your argument is pretty much as follows: man is totally depraved and can not seek God without Gods call. Gods call is irresistible because man is not a sovereign over God. All who God calls will accept. No one who is called will not accept. Man can not come without a particular call. If he receives that call, he has to come. And on and on and on.

1) Man is corrupted entirely. Yep.
2) Man does not seek God. Yep.
3) God's call is to the elect and is irresistible. Yep
4) God is Sovereign and God has selected His elect before the foundation of the world. Man is a creation of God and is a slave to sin so that man is never free. Yep
5) All whom God adopts are adopted. Yep
6) Those whom God does not adopt are illegitimate and are dead in their sins. There is no call for them to accept or reject. Yep
7) God makes the decision. End of story. No circle to the debate.

God is in complete and total control at all times.

The circle is in Arminian theology that argues one can both chose and reject God over and over again until a person dies. That's the circle and it's entirely man-centered.

 

[Reynolds]

1) Man is corrupted entirely. Yep.
2) Man does not seek God. Yep.
3) God's call is to the elect and is irresistible. Yep
4) God is Sovereign and God has selected His elect before the foundation of the world. Man is a creation of God and is a slave to sin so that man is never free. Yep
5) All whom God adopts are adopted. Yep
6) Those whom God does not adopt are illegitimate and are dead in their sins. There is no call for them to accept or reject. Yep
7) God makes the decision. End of story. No circle to the debate.

God is in complete and total control at all times.

The circle is in Arminian theology that argues one can both chose and reject God over and over again until a person dies. That's the circle and it's entirely man-centered.

When questioned on a point you will consistently circle to another point in defense. You eventually circle back to the original point to defend a subpoint you used to defend the original point.

 

[InTheLight]

Any person who claims that they chose God by having their own faith is presenting a man-centered gospel.

No one is doing that.

So far, you, utilyan and sheep have pushed a man-centered gospel.

No, because I'm quoting 2 Tim. 3:15 which says we get faith from knowledge of the scriptures.

 

[utilyan]

1) Man is corrupted entirely. Yep.
2) Man does not seek God. Yep.
3) God's call is to the elect and is irresistible. Yep
4) God is Sovereign and God has selected His elect before the foundation of the world. Man is a creation of God and is a slave to sin so that man is never free. Yep
5) All whom God adopts are adopted. Yep
6) Those whom God does not adopt are illegitimate and are dead in their sins. There is no call for them to accept or reject. Yep
7) God makes the decision. End of story. No circle to the debate.

God is in complete and total control at all times.

The circle is in Arminian theology that argues one can both chose and reject God over and over again until a person dies. That's the circle and it's entirely man-centered.

Your post itself is perfect proof you are wrong.

See you believe God is an idiot who needs your cooperation for us to understand scripture. IE. you believe God is so dumb he can't be understood without your help.

John 3:16
16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.


No one reads that line and figures........Oh the world means SOME FOLKS.

How could everyone get that wrong? How can't God clearly state what he means?

What would he have to say if he really loved the whole world?


Don't answer....OR ANSWER since God needs your help to answer! Because you have made the word of God the work of an idiot who could not communicate what he means without his "synergetic" help from you!

 

[utilyan]

World, ALL, Marvelled.

Leave it to Calvinist to make sure you believe God is dependent on them for communication.

No one is going to read the bible and come up with Calvinism on their own.

 

[Reynolds]

No one is doing that.



No, because I'm quoting 2 Tim. 3:15 which says we get faith from knowledge of the scriptures.

If you do not agree with him in totality, he states the view you hold as an extreme exaggeration of your view. Failure to completely agree makes you an extreme Arminian.
I do not believe God tells every limb where to fall and as a result, I do not believe God is sovereign. I believe He is "weak and impotent."

 

[utilyan]

John 4

39From that city many of the Samaritans believed in Him because of the word of the woman who testified, “He told me all the things that I have done.” 40So when the Samaritans came to Jesus, they were asking Him to stay with them; and He stayed there two days. 41Many more believed because of His word;42and they were saying to the woman, “It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world.”

Samaritans said Savior of the world and we are suppose to believe they were calvinist! LOL believing elect only! What a joke.

 

[MennoSota]

When questioned on a point you will consistently circle to another point in defense. You eventually circle back to the original point to defend a subpoint you used to defend the original point.

My points have been made. No circling. I am waiting for the biblical text to support your idea that God doesn't concern himself with the unimportant things. How you doing on that circle you created where you declare that there are unimportant things, but only God knows what they are.

 

[MennoSota]

No one is doing that.



No, because I'm quoting 2 Tim. 3:15 which says we get faith from knowledge of the scriptures.

Every person who says they chose God is doing that.

 

[MennoSota]

No one is doing that.



No, because I'm quoting 2 Tim. 3:15 which says we get faith from knowledge of the scriptures.

2 Timothy doesn't say that. You make the claim that it says such a thing. You can make the claim until death, but it won't be any more accurate. It will still be a false statement from you.

 

[MennoSota]

Your post itself is perfect proof you are wrong.

See you believe God is an idiot who needs your cooperation for us to understand scripture. IE. you believe God is so dumb he can't be understood without your help.

John 3:16
16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.


No one reads that line and figures........Oh the world means SOME FOLKS.

How could everyone get that wrong? How can't God clearly state what he means?

What would he have to say if he really loved the whole world?


Don't answer....OR ANSWER since God needs your help to answer! Because you have made the word of God the work of an idiot who could not communicate what he means without his "synergetic" help from you!

LOL, you lost me when you made the foolish claim that I believe God is an idiot.

No, utilyan, I believe you are an idiot, not God. [emoji41]

 

[Reynolds]

My points have been made. No circling. I am waiting for the biblical text to support your idea that God doesn't concern himself with the unimportant things. How you doing on that circle you created where you declare that there are unimportant things, but only God knows what they are.

Doing fine. Much better than you are doing in explaining Adam in the garden.

 

[MennoSota]

If you do not agree with him in totality, he states the view you hold as an extreme exaggeration of your view. Failure to completely agree makes you an extreme Arminian.
I do not believe God tells every limb where to fall and as a result, I do not believe God is sovereign. I believe He is "weak and impotent."

Yet, many have shared scripture passages showing that God does indeed direct every falling branch, every wisp of the wind, every breath of an ant.
Your version of Sovereign is not the Bibles version of Sovereign.

 

[MennoSota]

Doing fine. Much better than you are doing in explaining Adam in the garden.

LOL you trust your own reasoning and toss God's word to the side when it doesn't fit your thoughts.
I am perfectly content with God being Sovereign and ordaining the fall for His own good purpose.

 

[Iconoclast]

http://www.chapellibrary.org/files/3913/7643/2884/aogo.pdf

God did not merely decree to make man, place him upon the earth, and then leave him to his own uncontrolled guidance;

instead, He fixed all the circumstances in the lot of individuals, and all the particulars which will comprise the history of the human race from its commencement to its close.


He did not merely decree that general laws should be established for the government of the world, but He settled the application of those laws to all particular cases.


Our days are numbered, and so are the hairs of our heads. We may learn what is the extent of the divine decrees from the 5 dispensations of providence, in which they are executed. The care of Providence reaches to the most insignificant creatures, and the most minute events—the death of a sparrow, and the fall of a hair.


Those who resist the truth here do not trust in God's wisdom as it is expressed here;
Secondly, the decrees of God are wise. Wisdom is shown in the selection of the best possible ends and of the fittest means of accomplishing them. That this character belongs to the decrees of God is evident from what we know of them. They are disclosed to us by their execution, and every proof of wisdom in the works of God is a proof of the wisdom of the plan, in conformity to which they are performed. As the Psalmist declared, “O LORD, how manifold are Thy works! in wisdom hast Thou made them all” (104:24)

 

[Iconoclast]

Fourthly, they are absolute and unconditional. The execution of them is not suspended upon any condition which may, or may not be, performed. In every instance where God has decreed an end, He has also decreed every means to that end. The One who decreed the salvation of His elect also decreed to work faith in them (II Thess 2:13). “My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure” (Isa 46:10): but that could not be, if His counsel depended upon a condition which might not be performed. But God “worketh all things after the counsel of His own will” (Eph 1:11)

Whether God has decreed all things that ever come to pass or not, all that own the being of a God, own that He knows all things beforehand. Now, it is self-evident that if He knows all things beforehand, He either doth approve of them or doth not approve of them; that is, He either is willing they should be, or He is not willing they should be. But to will that they should be is to decree them (Jonathan Edwards).[/QUOTE]

 

[InTheLight]

2 Timothy doesn't say that.

Your reading comprehension is abysmal.

You can make the claim until death, but it won't be any more accurate. It will still be a false statement from you.

Yes, but enough of your interpretation of Ephesians 2:8-9

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.

 

[MennoSota]

Your reading comprehension is abysmal.



Yes, but enough of your interpretation of Ephesians 2:8-9

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.

...because you think salvation is by works?