timtofly
Well-Known Member
The stars were created when God said He made them, just like humans were created when God said He made them, by forming them out of the dust of the earth.
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God created all things, the universe and the earth in 6 days, about 6000 years – the Bible and real
- Thread starter SavedByTheLord
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37818
Well-Known Member
In Genesis it does not say when He made the Sun, Moon or stars. We agree, I presume, that the Sun and Moon were made to be those two lights. The stars were already to be lights.
timtofly
Well-Known Member
It is assumed that when God says He is about to do something it is on the day He is about to do it.
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.... And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."
That you agree with, but then you change your mind about:
"And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs.... And the evening and the morning were the fourth day."
In the first example, I did not even start at the beginning of the 6th day. The beginning included all the other living creatures other than humans, as they were created first.
In the lights of the sky, the moon is the only light that can be seen both at night and during the day conditions permitting. The moon does not divide nor define neither the day nor the night, even though that is the perception humans place on the dichotomy relationship of the sun and moon.
The only defining light during the day is the sun. The only defining lights at night are the stars. So please explain how the stars are not the lights God created to seperate the night from the day on the 4th day?
Yes, even the verses declare 2 great lights. Which humans then deny that the moon is even a light at all. Humans already contradict God's Word be declaring the moon is not a literal light as a light source. Yet you state the stars are not the lights at night as their own light source created on the 4th day.
I would be so bold to say that God's Word over and over relates these lights as the angels, and even the sun and moon are just two angels doing the job they were created to do. Humans have moved away from God's Word and have created a virtual use of the moon to something other than God described in Genesis 1. Even in Revelation 19:17, John sees the angel standing in the sun.
"And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;"
Now, one can argue that is just symbolism or a figure of speech. Or John was talking about the angel who has been shining as the sun, and we get to hear the sun actually talk. Not sure why a star cannot be sent to the earth and appear as a human to be a messenger of God? Other than human science teaches us human imagination contrary to God's Word.
Even at the birth of Jesus, the shepherds watched in the night sky, the stars appearing as humans and singing to them.
The point remains that the term lights (plural) on the fourth day is not limited to the human notion of a single light, and something God placed to reflect that single light. The 4th day was the creation of all the lights in the firmament. And those lights are the angels, as "star" and "angel" have been terms used interchangeably throughout the entire Bible for those created beings on the 4th day.
And the "sons of God" / "Adamkind" are the beings created on the 6th day.
God leaves nothing to human imagination, so we do not have to come up with our own ideas to explain things that clearly do not need some extra biblical explanation. Which covers all mythology and the majority of western science we teach ourselves on a daily basis. Obviously, that goes against modern day thought processes. We are the product of our society.
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37818
Well-Known Member
. . . So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. . . .
The word of God nowhere says that.
timtofly
Well-Known Member
So nothing happened on the 4th day of creation? Why did Moses put the 4th day in the account if nothing happened. You are not making any sense.
"And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good."
Are you saying none of these beast were created on the 6th day?
37818
Well-Known Member
On the 4th day God says He made two great lights. And we know their identity to be our Sun and Moon.
timtofly
Well-Known Member
Made or created?
37818
Well-Known Member
Genesis 1:14-19, . . . God made two great lights . . . .
And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years, and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so.
Genesis 1:14–15 ESV
Genesis 1:14–15 ESV
FUNCTIONAL PURPOSE: (1) signs for the seasons, (2) to give light
While the earth remains, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night, shall not cease.”
Genesis 8:22 ESV
Yours is the day, yours also the night;
you have established the heavenly lights and the sun.
You have fixed all the boundaries of the earth;
you have made summer and winter.
Psalm 74:16–17 ESV
He made the moon to mark the seasons;
the sun knows its time for setting.
You make darkness, and it is night,
when all the beasts of the forest creep about.
Psalm 104:19-20 ESV
Give thanks to the Lord of lords,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
to him who alone does great wonders,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
to him who by understanding made the heavens,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
to him who spread out the earth above the waters,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
to him who made the great lights,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
the sun to rule over the day,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
the moon and stars to rule over the night,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
Psalm 136:3–9 ESV
PURPOSE CONFIRMED: Days/warmth, nights and seasons are associated with the establishment of the celestial bodies.Genesis 8:22 ESV
Yours is the day, yours also the night;
you have established the heavenly lights and the sun.
You have fixed all the boundaries of the earth;
you have made summer and winter.
Psalm 74:16–17 ESV
He made the moon to mark the seasons;
the sun knows its time for setting.
You make darkness, and it is night,
when all the beasts of the forest creep about.
Psalm 104:19-20 ESV
Give thanks to the Lord of lords,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
to him who alone does great wonders,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
to him who by understanding made the heavens,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
to him who spread out the earth above the waters,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
to him who made the great lights,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
the sun to rule over the day,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
the moon and stars to rule over the night,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
Psalm 136:3–9 ESV
SO,
The Sun and Moon are the "great lights",
The stars are the ... not so great lights. lol
Their function was assigned on creation day 4.
Rob
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timtofly
Well-Known Member
So the stars came from nothing, but you think already existed? Humans were formed from the dust of the ground, but you say created out of nothing?
You have yet to determine or prove a defined difference between "made" and "create".
God said let there be.... so He made.
Later, God said let us make... so He created.
Why do you declare a difference between "make" and "create"?
God made something out of nothing. Then God created man from the dust. Then you declare one thing cannot happen on a specific day, because of the usage of two different words?
37818
Well-Known Member
They were an unmentioned ex nihilo creation per Genesis 1:1.
timtofly
Well-Known Member
That is not found in that verse.
You totally miss the 4th day when they were actually made.
If you are going by the point that the heavens were without form, when did God create the temple that is described in heaven.
"And the earth was without form, and void."
This says nothing about the heavens where God was present.
The stars were made and placed into the firmament between the water above them and water on the earth. At one point there was water above the stars.
No verse says that God took the stars from a prior creation and placed them between the water above and the water below.
In fact, that water above, was not that far away, because it came back during the Flood.
That water passed all those stars God made on the 4th day.
37818
Well-Known Member
Unmentioned.
timtofly
Well-Known Member
They were left out of Genesis 1:1 because the stars were made on the 4th day per verse 16.
"he made the stars also."
If God made man on the 6th day from the elements, what is the issue of making the stars on the 4th day in a similar fashion?
God did not "create" humans ex niliho. Yet you claim God "made" stars ex niliho. To create means out of nothing. To make does not necessitate out of nothing.
37818
Well-Known Member
timtofly
Well-Known Member
It is part of making lights to rule the night. Hebrew does not have to be exact like you are thinking English is not being exact.
If you go by the Hebrew, God only made the sun. The moon and stars were made at some other time as you put it.
The verb action that applies to the sun, carries into the action applied to the moon and stars.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
For some it matters because it is proof of the existence of God. We can know there is God because we have creation and what we see did not just happen as Stephen Hawking suggested:
"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist." Stephen Hawking
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/hawking_no_gods_necessary.html
The question Hawking never answered was why those laws of physics exist? Another thing that is not answered is, if there is nothing then what does gravity work upon to create something?
The timeline is not as important as the fact. He created all that we see and we should praise Him for it.
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37818
Well-Known Member
Such a type of argument is a poor argument.
In such an argument, existence exists. God needs the existence.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Yes Hawking's argument was rather, should we say puerile. He just wanted to come up with something that eliminated God.