37818
Well-Known Member
Not in any way.
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God created all things, the universe and the earth in 6 days, about 6000 years – the Bible and real
- Thread starter SavedByTheLord
- Start date
timtofly
Well-Known Member
Then do you think the Bible should conform to paganism that states death is good, until it is not?
37818
Well-Known Member
No.
There was such thing of death before the fall of Adam and Eve. God didn't lie.
God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
timtofly
Well-Known Member
God never stated there was death, before Adam disobeyed. That is you "putting words" in "God's mouth".
Death only resulted from one particular sin, and that was Adam's disobedience, and no one else.
37818
Well-Known Member
Genesis 3:3, . . . God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Would like your thoughts.
1 John 3:8 YLT he who is doing the sin, of the devil he is, because from the beginning the devil doth sin; for this was the Son of God manifested, that he may break up the works of the devil;
When did the devil sin? Did the sin of the devil bring death to anything? Why was it foreordained from before the foundation of the world for there to be redemption from sin and death through the blood?
Acts 26:18 YLT to open their eyes, to turn from darkness to light, and the authority of the Adversary unto God, for their receiving forgiveness of sins, and a lot among those having been sanctified, by faith that is toward me.
Is that the same darkness and light found in Gen 1:2,3
Out of darkness light to shine 2 Cor 4:6 ? on the earth ? Was that because of the sin of the devil?
David Koberstein
Member
The year on the Hebrew calendar is 5785. Which means it has
been 5785 years since creation. The Jewish
New Year is on Rosh Hashanah.
Which falls in early fall. Messianic Rabbis believe Yeshua was born on or very near
to Rosh Hashanah the Jewish New Year. December 25 is connected to a pagan holiday
which obviously isn't Messiah's time of birth.
Shalom
been 5785 years since creation. The Jewish
New Year is on Rosh Hashanah. Which falls in early fall. Messianic Rabbis believe Yeshua was born on or very near
to Rosh Hashanah the Jewish New
Year. December 25 is connected to a pagan holidaywhich obviously isn't Messiah's time of birth.
Shalom
And scientists discovered the half life of an atom is around 5,730 years which almost lines up perfectly.
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
Hello, David!The year on the Hebrew calendar is 5785. Which means it has
been 5785 years since creation. The Jewish
Which falls in early fall. Messianic Rabbis believe Yeshua was born on or very near
to Rosh Hashanah the Jewish New
which obviously isn't Messiah's time of birth.
Shalom
I have here in my study two commentaries on the Hebrew text of Genesis by Jewish scholars that you would probably find to be enlightening:
The 2,314-page commentary by Meir Zlotowitz published in two volumes in 1977 and 1986 respectively.
The 454-page commentary by Ephraim A. Speiser published in 1963.
Shalom
Alan Dale Gross
Active Member
It's in the Bible. That's all that matters.
Reading will teach these concepts just fine.
Blank
Active Member
I wonder if the authors of these commentaries took notice of the fact that God Himself defined a day as equaling='morning and evening'=ONE day. Gen 1:5,8,13,19,23,31.
God even gives cardinal numbers (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc.) to these days (to help out the confused 'theologians' writing commentaries).
So, I'm not surer how at least 28 authors of these commentaries missed this, unless their natural bias prevented them from seeing it or they are devoid of God's Spirit, in which case, I'd chuck all 28 volumes
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
Your post gives me the impression that you are assuming that Genesis 1-11 is a literal account of actual historical events. Nevertheless, how can that be in this age when information to the contrary is so readily available? The Jewish rabbis continued to believe until the 7th century that Genesis 1-11 is a literal account of actual historical events, but Christians began to observe and write at least as early as the 3rd century that what they could see with their eyes and touch with their hands proved a very different reality.
We Christians who are committed to the truth that the Bible is the inspired word of God and who carefully and prayerfully read it can plainly see for ourselves that Genesis 1-11 is written in a genre of literature that is very different from the genre of literature that the rest of Genesis is written in. Indeed, Genesis 1-11 is written in a genre of literature that is not found anywhere else in the Bible. And, of course, we Christians know that God is not careless or clumsy and that He had a very good reason for giving us Genesis 1-11 in the genre of literature that He did.
Because of the uniqueness of Genesis 1-11, it is studied today as a distinct body of literature by Christian scholars giving us entire volumes on Genesis 1-11 by such men as the ultra-conservative Baptist scholar Kenneth A. Matthews (644 pages) and the renown Old Testament scholar Claus Westermann (648 pages).
Blank
Active Member
Yes literal. If it's metaphorical, than any one can make anything say anything. Jesus quoted from Genesis 1-11, and took it as literal.
Which 'information to the contrary' do you think is readily available?
The Jewish rabbis also rejected Jesus. Not having the Holy Spirit they walk by sight and not by faith.
Yes. so that we Christians won't compromise our faith under the pressure of scholastic pagan scholarship which contradicts God's word.
Now would you mind addressing my point that evening and morning equals one day?
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
Genesis 1-11 is written in a genre of literature that never uses metaphorical language but exclusively literal language. Genesis 1-11 is a literal account of non-historical events—that is, events that never occurred. Indeed, the “windows of heaven” in Gen. 7:11 and 8:2 are to be understood as real windows rather than metaphorical or poetical expressions as young earth creationists claim. The “dome” in Genesis 1:6-8 is to be understood as a real solid dome rather than a poetical expression or mistranslation as young earth creationists claim.
Gen. 1:6. And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. (KJV)
The Hebrew Masoretic text of Genesis 1:6-8 (from which the Old Testament in the KJV is translated) expressly describes the creation of a flat earth covered with a dome that “separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome.”
1:6 ויאמר אלהים יהי רקיע בתוך המים ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים׃
1:7 ויעשׂ אלהים את־הרקיע ויבדל בין המים אשׁר מתחת לרקיע ובין המים אשׁר מעל לרקיע ויהי־כן׃
1:8 ויקרא אלהים לרקיע שׁמים ויהי־ערב ויהי־בקר יום שׁני׃
1:9 ויאמר אלהים יקוו המים מתחת השׁמים אל־מקום אחד ותראה היבשׁה ויהי־כן׃
The Septuagint also expressly describes the creation of a flat earth covered with a dome that “separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome.”
Gen 1:6 Καὶ εἶπεν ὁ θεός Γενηθήτω στερέωμα ἐν μέσῳ τοῦ ὕδατος καὶ ἔστω διαχωρίζον ἀνὰ μέσον ὕδατος καὶ ὕδατος. καὶ ἐγένετο οὕτως.
Gen 1:7 καὶ ἐποίησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸ στερέωμα, καὶ διεχώρισεν ὁ θεὸς ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ ὕδατος, ὃ ἦν ὑποκάτω τοῦ στερεώματος, καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ ὕδατος τοῦ ἐπάνω τοῦ στερεώματος.
Gen 1:8 καὶ ἐκάλεσεν ὁ θεὸς τὸ στερέωμα οὐρανόν. καὶ εἶδεν ὁ θεὸς ὅτι καλόν. καὶ ἐγένετο ἑσπέρα καὶ ἐγένετο πρωί, ἡμέρα δευτέρα.
The Latin Vulgate also expressly describes the creation of a flat earth covered with a dome that “separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome.”
6. dixit quoque Deus fiat firmamentum in medio aquarum et dividat aquas ab aquis
7. et fecit Deus firmamentum divisitque aquas quae erant sub firmamento ab his quae erant super firmamentum et factum est ita
8. vocavitque Deus firmamentum caelum et factum est vespere et mane dies secundus
The Wycliffe Bible also expressly describes the creation of a flat earth covered with a dome that “separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome.”
6 And God seide, The firmament be maad in the myddis of watris, and departe watrisfro watris.
7And God made the firmament, and departide the watristhat weren vndurthe firmament fro these watris that weren on the firmament; and it was don so.
8 And God clepide the firmament, heuene. And the euentid and morwetid was maad, the secounde dai.
The NRSV correctly translates the Hebrew word רָקִיעַ (râqı̂ya‛) as “dome.” The evidence for the correctness of this translation is found in the use of this word in ancient Hebrew literature. Based upon this usage, the Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament by Brown, Driver, and Briggs published by Oxford University gives us the following meaning of it in Gen. 1:6, 7, and 8, “the vault of heaven, or ‘firmament,’ regarded by Hebrews as solid, and supporting ‘waters’ above it.” (p. 956)
"6-8 Second Work: The Firmament.—The second fiat calls into existence a firmament, whose function is to divide the primeval waters into an upper and lower ocean, leaving a space between as the theater of further creative developments. The “firmament” is the dome of heaven, which to the ancients was no optical illusion, but a material structure, sometimes compared to an “upper chamber” (Ps. 104:12, Am 9:6) supported by “pillars” (Jb 26:11), and resembling in its surface a “molten mirror” (Jb 37:18). Above this are the heavenly waters, from which the rain descends through “windows” or “doors” (Gn 7:11, 8:2, 2 Ki 7:2, 19) opened and shut by God at His pleasure (Ps 78:23)."
John Skinner, Principal and Professor of Old Testament Language and Literature, Westminster College, Cambridge (in his commentary on Genesis, page 21).
The KJV correctly translates the Hebrew word רָקִיעַ as “firmament”, but most modern readers of the KJV are unaware of the meaning of the word and do not realize that it came down to us from the Latin present active infinitive (firmāre) of the verb firmō, meaning “I make firm, strengthen, harden, or fortify.”
Believing the Bible and the truth that it teaches is not compromising our faith. Theologically conservative evangelical scholarship is not pagan scholarship, and it never contradicts the word of God—but does sometimes contradict what some Christians mistakenly believe about the Bible.
A literal interpretation of “there was evening and there was morning, the first day, which is the correct interpretation, expresses the concept of one day. However, God did NOT create a solid dome in the midst of the waters and therefore, the creation stories in Genesis 1-11 are not an accurate account of historical events—making your point irrelevant to Biblical reality.
Blank
Active Member
So I guess sin and death never occured?
Blank
Active Member
So I guess sin and death never occurred?
Blank
Active Member
Blank
Active Member
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world [kosmos] are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world [kosmos],and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Is the foundation of the world and the creation of the heavens and the earth the same thing?
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Gen 1:2
And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. Gen 1:6,7
Does it appear in the above that the earth was standing in the water and out of the water?
Did the sin of the devil occur prior to the sin of Adam?