God Creates Evil

[Thinkingstuff]

God created heaven and earth and everything in it. And when he got through he said "it is all very good". There was no flaw in it. There was no evil in it. Sin entered in--evil entered in because of what Adam did. It did not enter in because of anything God did. God is holy, righteous, and good. There is no darkness in Him at all. Can't understand how some Christians hold a theology that attributes evil to God.

But if you're a Calvinist isn't God ultimately responsible not only our decisions to accept him but our decisions not to accept him? If he predestines people to heaven and hell alike isn't that evil. And Ultimately doesn't there have to be some consideration for Lucifers fall?

 

[swaimj]

I do not identify myself as a calvinist. (not sure if you're "you" specifically referred to me or not)

The idea that God predestines some to heaven and some to hell is held by some calvinists, but not all.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I do not identify myself as a calvinist. (not sure if you're "you" specifically referred to me or not)

The idea that God predestines some to heaven and some to hell is held by some calvinists, but not all.

"You" is general not specific. And you do make a good point that not all Calvinist hold to a double predestination view but still by absence of action you still have a decision being made by the almighty.

 

[swaimj]

The man who designs a skyscraper inherantly includes in the design the possibility that one could fall off the structure and be killed. However, the designer is not responsible if one falls off and is killed.

This is the analogy I have heard on this issue. God included the possibility of evil being introduced to the world when he gave man freedom of will, but God did not author nor cause the evil.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

The man who designs a skyscraper inherantly includes in the design the possibility that one could fall off the structure and be killed. However, the designer is not responsible if one falls off and is killed.

This is the analogy I have heard on this issue. God included the possibility of evil being introduced to the world when he gave man freedom of will, but God did not author nor cause the evil.

I'm speaking of Lucifer specifically. And In the environment that Lucifer exist and allowed to live on man's Earth. God by his permisiveness then allowed for man to be tempted. It wasn't that man came up with the idea all on his own. Lucifer gave it to him. God permitted it.

 

[swaimj]

I agree that God permitted it. I would even say that God knew with certainty what would happen. Yet, God is not the cause of the evil.

 

[Marcia]

I can agree but let me ask this.

How can an angel or Adan rebel unless God included the ability to rebel?

Would the Lamb needed to be slain before the foundation of the world if Adam had a choice not to sin?

I'm not saying these things are true, just seeking your response.

They could rebel because they had free will - at least the will to obey or disobey God. As far as Adam and Eve go, being created in the image of God would include some kind of will; otherwise, they would not be created in the image of God.

Adam may have had a choice but God knew what he would choose - so no problems with the Lamb being slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[gb93433]

Yes, but I didn't understand your remarks and since someone else had interacted re the Jewish mindset, I thought you were addressing that person. Sorry if I misunderstood.

Could you explain what you meant?

It seems to me when you wrote, "I do not think God in any way created evil.' that you did not understand what scripture declared when it did say that God created evil.

 

[Marcia]

It seems to me when you wrote, "I do not think God in any way created evil.' that you did not understand what scripture declared when it did say that God created evil.

I've read commentaries that the word is best translated as "calamity," not evil. In context, that makes sense.

This topic has been on the BB before and so I researched it then. I've also been asked about it in (belligerent) emails.

Evil is not a force. How could God create evil? Evil comes from actions/disobedience to God.

 

[drfuss]

drfuss: If we did not have bad, we would not be able to appreciate good. By the same reasoning, perhaps one reason God created evil (or disasters) so that we could appreciate His goodness. Perhaps God created good and evil so we could better understand the contrast between the two extremes.

 

[gb93433]

I've read commentaries that the word is best translated as "calamity," not evil. In context, that makes sense.

This topic has been on the BB before and so I researched it then. I've also been asked about it in (belligerent) emails.

Evil is not a force. How could God create evil? Evil comes from actions/disobedience to God.

I have yet to find one commentary that will do a good job with such things. Commentaries are books and the publishers are there to make money. Seldom does a commentary deal with issues that require a lot of study and thought. The same Hebrew word is also used for evil and bad.

If God created everything then what did He not create?

 

[Jedi Knight]

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and EVIL: This obviously is not talking about God creating evil,but that He knew about it. Its like us being in the world but NOT OF IT. Other passage said....like to King David, Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up EVIL against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun. This is Gods Judgment to ALLOW the consequences to run its course"He could have stopped it". Proverbs 16:4 The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, EVEN the wicked for the day of EVIL.

 

[Marcia]

drfuss: If we did not have bad, we would not be able to appreciate good. By the same reasoning, perhaps one reason God created evil (or disasters) so that we could appreciate His goodness. Perhaps God created good and evil so we could better understand the contrast between the two extremes.

I disagree! At the end of time, there will be no evil and no darkness.

Calamities come from being in a fallen world. God allows them and uses them, but all bad stuff comes because we are in a fallen world.

 

[TCGreek]

Let me recommend John Piper's Spectacular Sins on this matter.

This book won book of the year. It's an excellent read, even though you do not agree with everything he teaches.

 

[Robert Snow]

I don't think God creates evil as a entity. I believe God creates good with the possibility of rejection of that good. Of course, to reject God's good is to choose evil.

Evidently God gave Satan and the angelic realm a choice, like he gave to mankind through Adam.

I look at good and evil somewhat like light and darkness. You don't create darkness, you simply remove light.

 

[Trotter]

What is evil? We define it, but how does God define it? He speaks of it in terms we can understand, but how does He see it? We understand evil to be "bad" things and events, but these things are a part of God's plan. The death of a child is never seen as good, but it happened and God knew about it. Does that make God evil?

This a question my wife struggled with for a long time. She finally settled it by seeing that evil is the abscence of God. Man chose evil in the garden by chosing to go against the will of God. Did God create that evil? Or did He just allow it? He already knew it would happen ahead of time, after all. She realized that evil (as we see) is a part of God's plan and that we cannot fathom it all.

 

[Marcia]

I have yet to find one commentary that will do a good job with such things. Commentaries are books and the publishers are there to make money. Seldom does a commentary deal with issues that require a lot of study and thought. The same Hebrew word is also used for evil and bad.

If God created everything then what did He not create?

You are assuming people who write commentaries do not study or care about the Bible. Many of them are very dedicated men of God.

You did not answer my question: How can God create evil since evil is a lack of good or rebellion against good?

 

[Jim1999]

Evil is not a creation, it is a posture, an attitude developed by humanity. A gun is not evil. It is used by some in an evil way.

God created Adam. Adam created his own evil self as he adopted what God told him not to do.

God cannot violate His own essence. Under His permissive will, a part of His absolute sovereignty, He allows man to develop his own character.

God does not and cannot create evil.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Tater77]

What is good without evil? Can you know what one is unless you have the other to contrast?

Is a magnet the same with only one pole? Does it need both to be complete?

Did God 'create' evil or just let it flourish on its own?

 

[gb93433]

You are assuming people who write commentaries do not study or care about the Bible. Many of them are very dedicated men of God.

Those who writes books may or may not be people of God. Some very good works out there have been written by non-Christians.

Some who write commentaries do not study and others do a great job. I have also seen what publishers do to the manuscripts that good men have written all in the name of politics. I know one author who told me a few years ago that the publisher completely changed his manuscript in parts to say something entirely different than what he did say. Another I know was asked to write a book and then when he wrote the book the publisher printed some books and then killed it. So the author proceeded to look for another publisher.

The fact is that publishers sell books and few people will spend the money on books that are very well written. How many people do you know who would spend over $300 on a good book that was well written versus some powder puff books that have little substance.

You did not answer my question: How can God create evil since evil is a lack of good or rebellion against good?

God is not logical. If he were then we could explain God. God creating evil is not about logic it is about His message to His people. Interpreting scripture requires an understanding of those things which surround when those passages were written.

For example there is no such word for wife as we know it in our language in the OT.

To interpret those passages about God creating evil they cannot be interpreted in light of American/Greek philosophy such as the way Americans think but rather as Jews thought.

To answer your question in a logical way one would only need to ask the question "Who created everything?" Is there anything which He did not create? The American and Greek philosophy put everything in separate boxes as thought were completely apart from each other. The Jew put everything in one circle.