God Gave Wine: What the Bible Says About Alcohol

[saturneptune]

Not quite Satch, a person MUST eat to live. If you stop eating you will die. A person does not have to drink alcohol to live, and if a person does not drink they will not die. In fact, they will probably live much longer if they never drink. I had a few friends that liked to drink, they died in their 20s BECAUSE of drinking.

If a person chooses to drink that is their decision, but it is not the same as eating food. This is a RIDICULOUS argument.

Yes, a person must eat to live, but not live to eat. That argument does not justify gluttony. Casual observation of Baptist pastors will make apparent why it is not preached on much.

A ridiculous argument it might be compared to alcohol consumption, but gluttony is a sin, as drunkenness is a sin.

 

[annsni]

Not quite Satch, a person MUST eat to live. If you stop eating you will die. A person does not have to drink alcohol to live, and if a person does not drink they will not die. In fact, they will probably live much longer if they never drink. I had a few friends that liked to drink, they died in their 20s BECAUSE of drinking.

If a person chooses to drink that is their decision, but it is not the same as eating food. This is a RIDICULOUS argument.

A person must eat to live. But they don't have to eat a piece of chocolate cake to live. That's just pleasure.

A person needs to drink to live. But they don't have to have a beer to drink to live. That's just pleasure.

We can get by on very basic foods (rice, beans, greens and maybe some meat) but we enjoy more than that. We can also get by on just water but we enjoy drinking more than just that.

 

[Winman]

A person must eat to live. But they don't have to eat a piece of chocolate cake to live. That's just pleasure.

A person needs to drink to live. But they don't have to have a beer to drink to live. That's just pleasure.

We can get by on very basic foods (rice, beans, greens and maybe some meat) but we enjoy more than that. We can also get by on just water but we enjoy drinking more than just that.

Not the same, you are required to eat food to live, you are not required to drink alcohol to live.

You CAN"T avoid eating food, you CAN avoid drinking alcohol.

 

[annsni]

Not the same, you are required to eat food to live, you are not required to drink alcohol to live.

You CAN"T avoid eating food, you CAN avoid drinking alcohol.

Food does not = alcohol

Food = fluids

Chocolate Cake or other treat = alcohol

You CAN avoid eating chocolate cake but you can't avoid drinking fluids. Heck, avoid drinking fluids and you're dead LONG before you can starve to death!

 

[evangelist6589]

I am a big fan of the Three Stooges, I once read a very good book about them. Moe, Shemp, and Curly were brothers in real life. Larry was an accomplished violinist. They were all Jewish, Moe's real name was Moses.

That funny walk of Curly's was not an act, he accidentally shot himself in the foot hunting when he was a boy, he incorporated his limp into his act.

Moe had a Model T car, he allowed Shemp to drive it, he drove it into a store front and was afraid to drive the rest of his life. When they did any car scenes, Shemp demanded the car could not be running and was pulled by stage-hands using ropes.

In real life Moe was a very gentle family man loved by everyone, he shunned Hollywood. Curly on the other hand was a real ladies man, married and divorced several times.

I did not know this. This is amazing information. I have also seen the ones with Joe, and Curly Joe. Not sure whom is better of the two. Curly Joe did a good job in Have Rocket Will Travel, Around the World in a Daze, among others. His films were decent, but then again I am a stooge lover so to me they all are good. Whats your favorite three episodes? Whats your favorite films?

Oh and bye the way dont trash your VHS player, or get one. Have Rocket Will Travel is only available on VHS. God thing for me I bought during a time when it was cheap, as any look on ebay will see it sells very expensive these days.

 

[evangelist6589]

I am pretty sure he meant to say "dizzy". Getting "ozzy" is MUCH worse. :laugh:

Yes I got dizzy.

 

[evangelist6589]

Justifying drinking responsibly is like justifying eating responsibly. It is a stupid waste of time because it does not REQUIRE justifying- the Bible is clear that it is already good.

Threads like this are not about justifying drinking but about condemning the phariseeism and ignorance of those who condemn drinking.

Amen!!! I await my book which should arrive this week and then I will have more arguments in favor of drinking responsibly and believe me I know th difference!

Just got back from church and my wife's brother is spending sometime with his friend with a 12 pack of beers at their side. I refused to take a drink because I do not like beer (out of a preference) and said I wanted a Mikes Hard lemonade. He told me that Mikes are for girls and real men drink beer! Well I am a real man and I love my Mikes hard lemonade! People can insult me, but its a great drink.

 

[Winman]

I did not know this. This is amazing information. I have also seen the ones with Joe, and Curly Joe. Not sure whom is better of the two. Curly Joe did a good job in Have Rocket Will Travel, Around the World in a Daze, among others. His films were decent, but then again I am a stooge lover so to me they all are good. Whats your favorite three episodes? Whats your favorite films?

Oh and bye the way dont trash your VHS player, or get one. Have Rocket Will Travel is only available on VHS. God thing for me I bought during a time when it was cheap, as any look on ebay will see it sells very expensive these days.

I have probably seen all the Stooges short films, but I can't name them. We have a local channel that shows them every weekend, but I haven't watched them in a few months.

My favorite stooge is Larry. Larry was very subtle, he stayed in the background and had few lines, but he was very important in communicating the mood of a scene.

There is a funny story about Moe, he saw an advertisement for an actor on a riverboat travelling from St. Louis (I believe) down to New Orleans. He sent his resume along with a photo of a friend who was tall and handsome. They hired Moe without ever seeing him. When he showed up he was short and ugly, but Moe convinced them to give him a chance. They were impressed with his acting and he was hired, the rest is history.

 

[evangelist6589]

Not quite Satch, a person MUST eat to live. If you stop eating you will die. A person does not have to drink alcohol to live, and if a person does not drink they will not die. In fact, they will probably live much longer if they never drink. I had a few friends that liked to drink, they died in their 20s BECAUSE of drinking.

If a person chooses to drink that is their decision, but it is not the same as eating food. This is a RIDICULOUS argument.

Really? Read this article

Moderate drinkers tend to have better health and live longer than those who are either abstainers or heavy drinkers. In addition to having fewer heart attacks and strokes, moderate consumers of alcoholic beverages (beer, wine or distilled spirits or liquor) are generally less likely to suffer hypertension or high blood pressure, peripheral artery disease, Alzheimer's disease and the common cold. Sensible drinking also appears to be beneficial in reducing or preventing diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, bone fractures and osteoporosis, kidney stones, digestive ailments, stress and depression, poor cognition and memory, Parkinson's disease, hepatitis A, pancreatic cancer, macular degeneration (a major cause of blindness), angina pectoris, duodenal ulcer, erectile dysfunction, hearing loss, gallstones, liver disease and poor physical condition in elderly

(http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/alcoholandhealth.html)

 

[evangelist6589]

A person must eat to live. But they don't have to eat a piece of chocolate cake to live. That's just pleasure.

A person needs to drink to live. But they don't have to have a beer to drink to live. That's just pleasure.

We can get by on very basic foods (rice, beans, greens and maybe some meat) but we enjoy more than that. We can also get by on just water but we enjoy drinking more than just that.

Really???? Read this article.


http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/alcoholandhealth.html

Longevity
Moderate drinkers tend to live longer than those who either abstain or drink heavily.

The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism has found that the lowest death rate from all causes occurs at the level of one to two drinks each day.10
Drinking alcohol in moderation (1-2 drinks per day for women and 2-4 for men) was found to reduce risk of mortality significantly according to meta-analysis of 34 studies of alcohol and total mortality among 1,015,835 men and women around the world.11
An exhaustive review of all major heart disease studies found that "Alcohol consumption is related to total mortality in a U-shaped manner, where moderate consumers have a reduced total mortality compared with total non-consumers and heavy consumers."12
A Harvard study found the risk of death from all causes to be 21% to 28% lower among men who drank alcohol moderately, compared with abstainers.13
A large-scale study in China found that middle-aged men who drank moderately had a nearly 20% lower overall mortality compared with abstainers.14
Harvard's Nurses' Health Study of over 85,000 women found reduced mortality among moderate drinkers.15
A British analysis of 12,000 male physicians found that moderate drinkers had the lowest risk of death from all causes during the 13 year study.16
A large study of about 88,000 people conducted over a period of ten years found that moderate drinkers were about 27% less likely to die during the period than were either abstainers or heavy drinkers. The superior longevity was largely due to a reduction of such diseases as coronary heart disease, cancer, and respiratory diseases.17
A twelve year long prospective study of over 200,000 men found that subjects who had consumed alcohol in moderation were less likely to die during that period than those who abstained from alcohol.18
A study of more than 40,000 people by the Cancer Research Center in Honolulu found that "persons with moderate alcohol intake appear to have a significantly lower risk of dying than nondrinkers."19

 

[Revmitchell]

We need a clear definition of what "moderate drinking" is.

 

[Winman]

Yes I got dizzy.

Yes, and I hope you understand I was just joking when I showed that photo of Ozzy Osbourne.

And I joked about the food you said you ate, because supposedly a fan threw a real bat onstage at a Black Sabbath concert. They do not know if Ozzy thought it was real or not, but he bit the head off the bat, and had to get rabies shots later.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeuW4Smf9PI

That bat looked rather fake to me, but they say it was real. Perhaps that was a simulation of the real event. Only Ozzy knows.

 

[InTheLight]

We need a clear definition of what "moderate drinking" is.

That's going to be hard to define. It depends on your weight and whether or not you are eating or have an empty stomach. Also, what activity you are doing. Everybody has to determine that for themselves but I would suggest if you have a blood alcohol level above .02 that is not being moderate. For most men this means no more than 2 beers (or 2 drinks, or two 5 oz. glasses wine) in an hour and a half. Of course if you will be driving the number is zero.

 

[Revmitchell]

If you have been drinking and can no longer drive that is not moderation.

 

[Luke2427]

Not quite Satch, a person MUST eat to live. If you stop eating you will die. A person does not have to drink alcohol to live, and if a person does not drink they will not die. In fact, they will probably live much longer if they never drink. I had a few friends that liked to drink, they died in their 20s BECAUSE of drinking.

If a person chooses to drink that is their decision, but it is not the same as eating food. This is a RIDICULOUS argument.

It is not a ridiculous argument. You don't know enough about argument to know what a ridiculous argument is.

But for your sake I'll adjust the anecdote a bit.

Justifying drinking responsibly is like justifying debating on baptistboard responsibly.

You don't need to justify it because the Bible does not condemn it.

What you do need to do is condemn phariseeism wherever it raises its ugly head.

That's why we start threads like this- to show people who are interested in discovering the truth how stupid and evil pharisees are. These threads make that kind of thing very clear.

 

[Luke2427]

If you have been drinking and can no longer drive that is not moderation.

Says who?

Are you AWARE that ALL you ever DO is post claims without support?

I've never seen anyone as bad at this as you are.

Even winman, though his support is absurd in the highest degree- even HE at least TRIES to support what he claims.

You just say it like you are God Almighty and you SAYING it makes it so.

 

[Winman]

It is not a ridiculous argument. You don't know enough about argument to know what a ridiculous argument is.

But for your sake I'll adjust the anecdote a bit.

Justifying drinking responsibly is like justifying debating on baptistboard responsibly.

You don't need to justify it because the Bible does not condemn it.

What you do need to do is condemn phariseeism wherever it raises its ugly head.

That's why we start threads like this- to show people who are interested in discovering the truth how stupid and evil pharisees are. These threads make that kind of thing very clear.

Thank you. Eating and drinking are not the same because you have to eat every day, in fact, several times per day to stay healthy.

The comparison to debating here is much better, except that making ten posts in an hour will not cause you to pass out.

Let me ask you an honest question Luke, do you ALWAYS drink responsibly? How often do you drink, and how much do you drink if I might ask? Do you ever drink too much?

The problem with drinking is that it tends to become addicting. Sure, it might not be a problem to drink one beer a day when you come home from work, but it is so easy to make that two beers, or three, or...

 

[evangelist6589]

Says who?

Are you AWARE that ALL you ever DO is post claims without support?

I've never seen anyone as bad at this as you are.

Even winman, though his support is absurd in the highest degree- even HE at least TRIES to support what he claims.

You just say it like you are God Almighty and you SAYING it makes it so.

Amen... I found it easier to put him on ignore.

 

[evangelist6589]

Thank you. Eating and drinking are not the same because you have to eat every day, in fact, several times per day to stay healthy.

The comparison to debating here is much better, except that making ten posts in an hour will not cause you to pass out.

Let me ask you an honest question Luke, do you ALWAYS drink responsibly? How often do you drink, and how much do you drink if I might ask? Do you ever drink too much?

The problem with drinking is that it tends to become addicting. Sure, it might not be a problem to drink one beer a day when you come home from work, but it is so easy to make that two beers, or three, or...

Assumptions????? I love Mikes Lemonade and am not addicted to it. Who says that drinking becomes addicting? Thats what I often heard at BJU, but they would stereotype, and broad brush very often on this and most subjects.

 

[annsni]

The problem with drinking is that it tends to become addicting. Sure, it might not be a problem to drink one beer a day when you come home from work, but it is so easy to make that two beers, or three, or...

Yet we have self control and can limit ourselves to one slice of cake or one glass of wine. Either one can become addicting - but with common self-control, it doesn't get out of hand.