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?God has no faith!? ... prove it here.
- Thread starter TC
- Start date
D
dianetavegia
Guest
Yes,
Luke 17:5 And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.
Mark 9:24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
Because he dogmatically states that God does not have faith and therefore does not give us any - so I asked him for proof. I, at least, admit that I do not know the answer.Originally posted by natters:
Then why are you demanding something from another poster (see your first 3 posts in this thread), when you are unable to do it yourself?
Wes Outwest
New Member
You mean, did God hope it would come out alright?
The some you speak of have no concept of what faith is!
Wes Outwest
New Member
Because he dogmatically states that God does not have faith and therefore does not give us any - so I asked him for proof. I, at least, admit that I do not know the answer. </font>[/QUOTE]For what reason would SOVEREIGN God need faith? He knows all, he sees all, What is there for him to hope for? ...my gracious, have we a hopeless God?Originally posted by TC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by natters:
Then why are you demanding something from another poster (see your first 3 posts in this thread), when you are unable to do it yourself?
NO we have a God who has no need to hope because he has all knowledge, he sees all that he created and knows the outcome. you see, he is eternal, to him there is no time such as we experience time.I just want to hear from one who can tell me what God would hope for, what promise is God hoping will be fulfilled? What event could God hope will come out right? Do you think that God hopes for our salvation? Do you think that God hopes that we will make the right choice? Calvinism says that God is sovereign, a truly sovereign God need no faith for the simple reason HE IS SOVEREIGN! God has made it possible for all mankind to be saved...THROUGH FAITH! Now it is up to us whether or not we believe the promises enough to have faith in God!
Faith is what we, who are not sovereign, who cannot see the future, who cannot see outside of our natural realm, who have no way of knowing for sure that we have salvation from the second death, and who have not "seen" God, or heaven, or virtually anything of the spirit realm that we hope is the reality promised.
Faith is ours alone, not divine God's. God knew when he made man that man is limited to not knowing or seeing. So He gave us every reason to have faith. We hope that the promises given to us by God will be fulfilled. That hope is faith! Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. We walk by faith, not by sight! Does God walk by faith? Does God not have sight?
Someone please tell me what there is that God would need faith for?
We teach our own children to have faith. We make promises to our children and make them wait for what we promised them, then at the appropriate time we deliver what was promised. The next promise the child accepts on faith alone! God does that to each of us too! But it is not faith that He gives it is promises and fulfillment! We develope the faith from within based upon knowledge that something we want or need will be supplied. We don't know how, and we cannot ourselves make it happen. But we have faith that it will.
I can imagine no circumstance for which God needs faith! Therefore I conclude that God has no faith to give to man, just like a father or mother has no faith to give to their child, only promises, and fulfillments!
For our salvation, None of us living this natural life is actually saved, but we have the promises, the evidence, if you will, that through our faith in God, we will not face the second death. Until we die the first death we have nothing but the promises. Therefore we need faith to accept that what is promised will actually be fulfilled, and we will not die the second death but have everlasting life with the Christ.
What better reason to have faith in God! After all we believe that He is sovereign, we read in his Word that ALL of the work of our salvation is complete, finished By Jesus on the cross. We, Man, witnessed His death, burial and his resurrection into life, and he promised us that through our faith in him we to shall live after we pass through the natural death. That alone is worthy of our faith. But to be able to live forever in the presence of our Mighty and loving God. What a wonderful promise.
Words have meaning. Can God be said to be faithful unless He has faith or at the very least has defined faith by his character? Can the Bible speak of the Faithfulness of God unless He possesses and defines faith? I don’t think so for that would fall outside the scope of how we speak, write and generally use language.
A person's faith in God is more than a person's faith in an airplane. It has a supernatural element which makes it different from faith in a car, a dog, a plane, or even another person.
Saving Faith is kindled by Spiritual initiative; it is fanned into flame by Spiritual intervention; and it is kept burning by Spiritual indwelling.
Faith in God does not precede Revelation from God.
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
These Verses that follow settle it for me. God has faith, He gives faith, He rewards faith, He is Faithful and throughout History and the Bible He has demonstrated his Faithfulness.
1Sa 26:23 The LORD render to every man his righteousness and his faithfulness: for the LORD delivered thee into my hand to day, but I would not stretch forth mine hand against the LORD'S anointed.
Psa 36:5 Thy mercy, O LORD, is in the heavens; and thy faithfulness reacheth unto the clouds.
Psa 89:24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted.
Lam 3:23 They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness.
Rom 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
1Co 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Phi 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
2Th 3:3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.
2Ti 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
A person's faith in God is more than a person's faith in an airplane. It has a supernatural element which makes it different from faith in a car, a dog, a plane, or even another person.
Saving Faith is kindled by Spiritual initiative; it is fanned into flame by Spiritual intervention; and it is kept burning by Spiritual indwelling.
Faith in God does not precede Revelation from God.
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
These Verses that follow settle it for me. God has faith, He gives faith, He rewards faith, He is Faithful and throughout History and the Bible He has demonstrated his Faithfulness.
1Sa 26:23 The LORD render to every man his righteousness and his faithfulness: for the LORD delivered thee into my hand to day, but I would not stretch forth mine hand against the LORD'S anointed.
Psa 36:5 Thy mercy, O LORD, is in the heavens; and thy faithfulness reacheth unto the clouds.
Psa 89:24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted.
Lam 3:23 They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness.
Rom 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
1Co 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Phi 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
2Th 3:3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.
2Ti 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
Wes Outwest
New Member
Just depends on your definition of the words!
Main Entry: 1-faithful
Function: adjective
1 obsolete : full of faith
2 : steadfast in affection or allegiance : LOYAL
3 : firm in adherence to promises or in observance of duty : CONSCIENTIOUS
4 : given with strong assurance : BINDING <faithful promise>
5 : true to the facts, to a standard, or to an original <a faithful copy>
- faithfully, adverb
- faithfulness, noun
synonyms FAITHFUL, LOYAL, CONSTANT, STAUNCH, STEADFAST, RESOLUTE mean firm in adherence to whatever one owes allegiance. FAITHFUL implies unswerving adherence to a person or thing or to the oath or promise by which a tie was contracted <faithful to her promise>. LOYAL implies a firm resistance to any temptation to desert or betray <remained loyal to the czar>. CONSTANT stresses continuing firmness of emotional attachment without necessarily implying strict obedience to promises or vows <constant friends>. STAUNCH suggests fortitude and resolution in adherence and imperviousness to influences that would weaken it <a staunch defender of free speech>. STEADFAST implies a steady and unwavering course in love, allegiance, or conviction <steadfast in their support>. RESOLUTE implies firm determination to adhere to a cause or purpose <a resolute ally>.
====================================
Main Entry: 2-faithful
Function: noun
1 plural in construction a : church members in full communion and good standing -- used with the b : the body of believers in Islam -- used with the
2 plural faithful or faithfuls : one who is faithful; especially : a loyal follower, member, or fan <party faithfuls>
=============================
Main Entry: 1-faith
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural faiths /'fAths, sometimes 'fA[th]z/
Etymology: Middle English feith, from Old French feid, foi, from Latin fides; akin to Latin fidere to trust -- more at BIDE
1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs
synonym see BELIEF
- in faith : without doubt or question : VERILY
============================
Main Entry: 2-faith
Function: transitive verb
archaic : BELIEVE, TRUST
Main Entry: article of faith
: a basic belief
=============================
Main Entry: faith healing
Function: noun
: a method of treating diseases by prayer and exercise of faith in God
- faith healer noun
=============================
Main Entry: good faith
Function: noun
: honesty or lawfulness of purpose
Main Entry: 1-faithful
Function: adjective
1 obsolete : full of faith
2 : steadfast in affection or allegiance : LOYAL
3 : firm in adherence to promises or in observance of duty : CONSCIENTIOUS
4 : given with strong assurance : BINDING <faithful promise>
5 : true to the facts, to a standard, or to an original <a faithful copy>
- faithfully, adverb
- faithfulness, noun
synonyms FAITHFUL, LOYAL, CONSTANT, STAUNCH, STEADFAST, RESOLUTE mean firm in adherence to whatever one owes allegiance. FAITHFUL implies unswerving adherence to a person or thing or to the oath or promise by which a tie was contracted <faithful to her promise>. LOYAL implies a firm resistance to any temptation to desert or betray <remained loyal to the czar>. CONSTANT stresses continuing firmness of emotional attachment without necessarily implying strict obedience to promises or vows <constant friends>. STAUNCH suggests fortitude and resolution in adherence and imperviousness to influences that would weaken it <a staunch defender of free speech>. STEADFAST implies a steady and unwavering course in love, allegiance, or conviction <steadfast in their support>. RESOLUTE implies firm determination to adhere to a cause or purpose <a resolute ally>.
====================================
Main Entry: 2-faithful
Function: noun
1 plural in construction a : church members in full communion and good standing -- used with the b : the body of believers in Islam -- used with the
2 plural faithful or faithfuls : one who is faithful; especially : a loyal follower, member, or fan <party faithfuls>
=============================
Main Entry: 1-faith
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural faiths /'fAths, sometimes 'fA[th]z/
Etymology: Middle English feith, from Old French feid, foi, from Latin fides; akin to Latin fidere to trust -- more at BIDE
1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs
synonym see BELIEF
- in faith : without doubt or question : VERILY
============================
Main Entry: 2-faith
Function: transitive verb
archaic : BELIEVE, TRUST
Main Entry: article of faith
: a basic belief
=============================
Main Entry: faith healing
Function: noun
: a method of treating diseases by prayer and exercise of faith in God
- faith healer noun
=============================
Main Entry: good faith
Function: noun
: honesty or lawfulness of purpose
PASTOR MHG
New Member
It seems that some of you are missing some very basic principles from the scriptures.
1. Romans 12:3...God Deals to every man a measure of faith.
2. Galatians 3:11...The just shall "live by faith" and that faith we are told in Galatians 2:16 & 20 is the faith "OF" the Son of God.
3. Galatians 5:22...the Spirit of God produces faith.
4. Hebrews 12:1...the "substance" and "evidence" of our faith is the Person of Jesus Christ. He is the personification of "faith"!
Just my thoughts,
Max
1. Romans 12:3...God Deals to every man a measure of faith.
2. Galatians 3:11...The just shall "live by faith" and that faith we are told in Galatians 2:16 & 20 is the faith "OF" the Son of God.
3. Galatians 5:22...the Spirit of God produces faith.
4. Hebrews 12:1...the "substance" and "evidence" of our faith is the Person of Jesus Christ. He is the personification of "faith"!
Just my thoughts,
Max
I
ILUVLIGHT
Guest
Hi MHG;
Gal 2:16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike
That is really a strange interpretation of who's faith it really is. The Bible actually says that it is our faith.
Gal 2:16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike
Wes Outwest
New Member
I agree that Jesus Christ is the object of faith, and he alone is worthy of our faith, but it is our faith and not his!Originally posted by PASTOR MHG:
It seems that some of you are missing some very basic principles from the scriptures.
1. Romans 12:3...God Deals to every man a measure of faith.
2. Galatians 3:11...The just shall "live by faith" and that faith we are told in Galatians 2:16 & 20 is the faith "OF" the Son of God.
3. Galatians 5:22...the Spirit of God produces faith.
4. Hebrews 12:1...the "substance" and "evidence" of our faith is the Person of Jesus Christ. He is the personification of "faith"!
Just my thoughts,
Max
It is our faith spawned by the Holy Spirit who illuminates God's Holy Word for us in us! The enlightenment that I have is not the same enlightenment that you have because the knowledge of God that I possess is not the same as that which you possess. The filter that your knowledge passes through is not the same filter that mine passes through. I'm talking about the way our spirit handles the knowledge that our brain stores for use.
It is our faith spawned by the knowledge of God found in God's word, and throughout his creation.
It is our faith based on the knowledge and conditioning of our spirit. Conditioning of our spirit is what we call our invironment. Your parents raised you differently than my parents raised me. Therefore the way your spirit uses the knowledge your brain receives, may well be different than the way my spirit uses the knowledge my brain receives. You read different books than I do. You look for key thoughts that are different from what I look for.
It is exclusively our own individual faith in God through which we are saved! I cannot be saved by your faith, you cannot be saved by my faith. We each must have our individual faith in God in order to be saved.
The faith that we must possess is that which says Jesus is the son of God, the Christ manifested in the flesh! If we believe that, and if that is the core of all of our beliefs about God, then when it comes time to separate the sheep from the goats, God will see that faith in us and we will bypass judgement, and not be subject to the second death!
Wes Outwest
New Member
Pickin' a few nits TC?
If you understood FAITH you would know that it is not something done! That would make it a work and works cannot earn you a spot on the heaven bound train!
According to Scripture, Ephesians 2:8&9, FAITH cannot be a work because Salvation is not of Works lest any man should boast, but indeed requires faith! For without faith there is no salvation.
Faith is a condition of the spirit, without it the spirit does not produce good fruit. With it our spirit produces in us the fruits of the spirit Paul speak so eloquently of.
Wes Outwest
New Member
Yes, I agree, but please notice the operative words "to you who believe....". If you can stop believing the moon is made of green cheese, you can stop believing in that which you cannot see. That is the reason for all the warnings in scripture about falling away. Don't lose your faith! Keep on persevering in the faith! That way you will indeed have eternal life.
Wait! You said it was a "good decision". A decision is something that YOU do.
Amen... That's why faith is not a work. It is a normal manifestation of a new spiritual nature.
Amen. Without a new nature, there is no faith. It is all of grace.
Amen. Preach on!
By God's grace...
Wes Outwest
New Member
Wait! You said it was a "good decision". A decision is something that YOU do.</font>[/QUOTE]Faith is the result of a decision not the decision itself.
The decision is what we do, faith is the resulting condition of the spirit!
You make my point even better than I could... to defeat your premise.
You are saying that "faith" is a result of a decision which is an action or technically a "work", right?
"Not of works lest any man should boast" vs make a good decision to have faith. The biblical choice is very apparent.
You are saying that "faith" is a result of a decision which is an action or technically a "work", right?
"Not of works lest any man should boast" vs make a good decision to have faith. The biblical choice is very apparent.
Wes Outwest
New Member
Amen. Without a new nature, there is no faith. It is all of grace.</font>[/QUOTE]So long as you are not saying that grace is what saves, we can agree. However,I detect that you are saying that the individual is saved BY grace, and I would like you to prove that by explaining how grace saves. Exactly what is this "power" that grace has that actually saves the individual. When a man falls overboard and is in the water, what is the actual mechanism that saves the man from the water. Is it grace and grace alone?
Think it through before you answer, I weary of trite answers to this question! Exactly how does grace save?
Wes Outwest
New Member
However you miss the point! The decision is not what saves, it is the possession of that which results from the decision that saves.
If you want you can call deciding "a work" but like making a fine table, it is not a fine table until the work is finished. Deciding to have faith is not having faith, it is the work phase of gaining possession of faith! Faith is a possession not a work!