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Heaven's no, let me explain. I built my own home once, but I did not do it by myself. I did the organizing and the instructing, but others swung the hammers, pushed the saws, carried the materials, measured, and assembled the building to my specifications. However, because I was the one in charge, I get the credit for "building my home". Do you think that Jesus builds his church all by himself? If he does, why does he need pastors, elders, deacons, etc.?
OH really? From the mouth of God the son,
Seems God the son uses others to do "his" work!
Could you explain how he knew them? I'm not sure that peter did that much travel that far from Jerusalem.
Heaven's no, let me explain. I built my own home once, but I did not do it by myself. I did the organizing and the instructing, but others swung the hammers, pushed the saws, carried the materials, measured, and assembled the building to my specifications. However, because I was the one in charge, I get the credit for "building my home". Do you think that Jesus builds his church all by himself? If he does, why does he need pastors, elders, deacons, etc.? </font>[/QUOTE]Wes
OH really? From the mouth of God the son,
Seems God the son uses others to do "his" work! </font>[/QUOTE]Surely you are not denying Scripture again Wes!
Could you explain how he knew them? I'm not sure that peter did that much travel that far from Jerusalem. </font>[/QUOTE]Wes, you need to spend some time studying grammar. The quote above does not say that Peter knew the recipients of his epistle. He calls them "strangers" and identifies them as elect.
I wrote something that was sarcastic,</font>[/QUOTE] It was untrue and uncalled for.
you did not recognize the sarcasm and went ballistic! </font>[/QUOTE] If it is sarcasm then it is a very poor use of a very poor debate technique.
My jets aren't hot. I actually don't even think my heart rate has increased a beat the whole time. I am simply calling on a Christian brother to apologize for making an untrue statement about me. If it was sarcasm then the only person it would not have been lost on is you.
Oh. Well how does that hold up against your accusations against calvinism?
In both of these scriptures, who is the author? Are both not written by APOSTLES? Is it not Apostles who provide us with the "word of God the Son who says I and the father are one"?
Could you explain how he knew them? I'm not sure that peter did that much travel that far from Jerusalem. </font>[/QUOTE]Wes, you need to spend some time studying grammar. The quote above does not say that Peter knew the recipients of his epistle. He calls them "strangers" and identifies them as elect.
Most sarcasm fits that description.
RIGHT BACK TO YOU! You often post that I said something that I did not say or even elude to....Then you waste our time, expecting sympathy for your hurt feelings when it is done to you! Get real.
Paul and the rest of the Apostles including Judas, including Pontius Pilate were ELECTED to that time, and those events, by God, in order to accomplish HIS SPECIAL PURPOSE! A new covenant!
Have I indeed prescribed a different method of Salvation for these men? NO, so why do you elude to me doing so? That is the reason I will not apologize to you for saying you said something you did not!
You will have to ask God that question. What I read in God's word is History concerning these men. God is the one who did the electing of them to their roles, while not electing the others in like professions. Why can't you think these things through for yourself?
The only snare here is your twisting of my words to mean something different than what I said! If you have an opinion you have every right to express it. You do not need to twist my thoughts, to misconstrue meanings, and to misinterpret scripture to suit your own twisted theology.
Paul and the rest of the Apostles including Judas, including Pontius Pilate were ELECTED to that time, and those events, by God, in order to accomplish HIS SPECIAL PURPOSE! A new covenant!</font>[/QUOTE] So those who were saved didn't have a realchoice, right?
We do... Some of us do since it is consistent with what we already recognize to be true. Some of us are trapped because even applied in this limited since you "cannot tell" the answer to this dilemna since to give the answer you know to be correct would work against your presupposition.
Yes we do. Romans 8 in particular is very comprehensive. Predestined... foreknown... called... justified... glorified. Everything concerning whoever the subject was from the beginning of time to the end of time.
Preconditioned? That isn't what election means. They weren't "preconditioned". They were chosen... and they were chosen to salvation or else any other election to any other purpose is meaningless.
Certainly not all those elected to God's purpose!
Most sarcasm fits that description.
RIGHT BACK TO YOU! You often post that I said something that I did not say or even elude to[/quote][/qb] When? I gave you a very specific, very blatant instance.
My feelings aren't hurt. The biggest reason I am continuing this is to give you opportunity to show some "grace" or else to reveal your manner.
Then name them if you know them!
Are all who are chosen by God, Elect of God? Are all who are chosen by God as in predestination, SAVED?