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God is Responsive to Human Choices

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
"God is unvarying, reliable, constant, and perpetual. God never adds or subtracts from His character and emotions. They are constant and unmoving. We should be forever grateful that God is immutable, as this provides an assurance of His love and mercy toward us."

The above snippet copied from the internet provides an excellent hypothesis for defining the immutability of God.

However, to move from being an understanding formulated by man, we must verify these attributes are found in scripture, rather than read into scripture.

Numbers 23:19 (NASB)
“God is not a man, that He would lie,
Nor a son of man, that He would change His mind;
Has He said, and will He not do it?
Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

The above clearly teaches God keeps His word and does not vary, that we can rely on His word, and that God is consistent.

Hebrews13:8
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today, and forever.

Here we can add that God's character and attributes do not change over time, thus we can now support the attribute of being perpetual, thus God's attributes do not change over time. However, God does as He pleases, thus He can treat one person one way and treat another person another way or both people the same way. He can condemn one individual and bestow mercy upon another.

God dictates His actions, rather than His past actions dictating His future actions, so He can formulate the Old Covenant and then inaugurate a New Covenant.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
A small but vocal group of Christians have been mislead into believing God has predetermined whatsoever comes to pass, thus humans make no actual choices, we are like actors on a stage, just performing our predetermined lines. However scripture says we are given choices to make. We make the choice between life and death.

The sadly mistaken group says God gives the choice of life only to those He chose as foreseen individuals before creation, and the choice of death only to all the rest of humanity. However, this redefines choice to be the non-choice of one option only.

Acts of the Apostles 6:5
The announcement found approval with the whole congregation; and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas, a proselyte from Antioch.

Here scripture does not say "they exercised the illusion of choice and chose Stephen."

Deuteronomy 30:19
“I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have placed before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,

Here again, scripture does not say, so exercise the predetermined non-choice of life only, if you were chosen individually before creation, and as far as the rest, I really want you to exercise the illusion of choice, and choose the predetermined non-choice of death.


 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
“The sadly mistaken group” :Laugh what a completely arrogant & ignorant thing to post.
Once again, a poster addresses the person rather than the position, demonstrating a sadly mistaken effort to hide biblical truth.

The sadly mistaken group says God gives the choice of life only to those He chose as foreseen individuals before creation, and the choice of death only to all the rest of humanity. However, this redefines choice to be the non-choice of one option only.
 

Dave G

Well-Known Member
So what would you call a group that have ignored the word of God?
Ignored the word of God, yet still professes to know Him?
Not informed or made aware of what it says on a given subject.

Purposefully and willfully resistant to what is written?
The same thing that the Lord Jesus calls them:

"He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God." ( John 8:47 ). <---- Not "of" God.

" But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:"
<------ Not His sheep.

..and the same thing that Paul told Timothy:

" Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith." ( 2 Timothy 3:8 ) <---- Men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.


My personal hope and desire is that this description fits no one who reads these words, nor who posts on this board.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Ignored the word of God, yet still professes to know Him?
Not informed or made aware of what it says on a given subject.

Purposefully and willfully resistant to what is written?
The same thing that the Lord Jesus calls them:

"He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God." ( John 8:47 ). <---- Not "of" God.

" But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:"
<------ Not His sheep.

..and the same thing that Paul told Timothy:

" Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith." ( 2 Timothy 3:8 ) <---- Men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.


My personal hope and desire is that this description fits no one who reads these words, nor who posts on this board.

So what your saying I would conclude is these are people that freely reject the truth and thus are not Gods' sheep.

But I was curious as to what EFW meant by his response to Van. Why is Vans' comment "a completely arrogant & ignorant thing to post."
 
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Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Ever notice how often the sadly mistaken group posts to change the subject from the thread topic to claims disparaging those who hold views that differ? It happens all the time.

The sadly mistaken group says God gives the choice of life only to those He chose as foreseen individuals before creation, and the choice of death only to all the rest of humanity. However, this redefines choice to be the non-choice of one option only.

If God responds to our autonomous choices, then the Gospel message of opportunity is true. Everyone believing into Him will not perish which is the result of God crediting the person's faith as righteousness.

 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
In the book of Jonah, God reveals His desires to people and then takes action based on their response. He makes conditional covenants, i.e. if you repent, then I will relent.

In Genesis 12:1-4 we see that God revealed His desire to Abram, and then Abram submitted to God. So rather than saying God took Abraham from across the river, a better choice in translation would be God led Abraham across the river. See Joshua 24:3.

As lost people, they need to bring themselves to having a faith like Abraham, fully committed, holding nothing back, and trusting fully in the promises of God.

The Gospel message is that when God discerns that faith like Abraham's is a lost person, He credits that faith as righteousness, and transfers than individual into Christ. Thus, everyone believing into Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
So what your saying I would conclude is these are people that freely reject the truth and thus are not Gods' sheep…."
John 10, Jesus tells them “you do not believe because you are not My sheep”

He does Not say “you are not My sheep because you don’t believe” as you are claiming. They do not believe BECAUSE they are not His Sheep.

This has been explained to you many times but you are simply unwilling or unable to comprehend this truth BECAUSE of your secular man made philosophy that lifts man above God by claiming God must respond to man instead of man responding to God.

Very sad to watch the same error repeated over and over as if thinking by your many words you can change the clear teaching of scripture and make the error true.

peace to you
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
John 10, Jesus tells them “you do not believe because you are not My sheep”

He does Not say “you are not My sheep because you don’t believe” as you are claiming. They do not believe BECAUSE they are not His Sheep.

This has been explained to you many times but you are simply unwilling or unable to comprehend this truth BECAUSE of your secular man made philosophy that lifts man above God by claiming God must respond to man instead of man responding to God.

Very sad to watch the same error repeated over and over as if thinking by your many words you can change the clear teaching of scripture and make the error true.

peace to you
Very sad!
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member

As lost people, they need to bring themselves to having a faith like Abraham,…

The Gospel message is that when God discerns that faith like Abraham's is a lost person, He credits that faith as righteousness…
And there you have the error articulated.

NOTICE… the words “they bring themselves to having a faith like Abraham”

And then… “When God discerns that faith like Abraham’s….” Then God responds.

The focus is entirely upon what the man does. God is waiting, wringing His hands, hoping and praying to Himself that somebody, just anybody might just might “bring themselves” to saving faith that He can “discern” and then do His job to credit that faith as righteousness.

Absolutely nothing about the work of God Hoky Spirit. Absolutely nothing about Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

The “gospel message” is refined as mankind bringing themselves to saving faith in such a way to get God’s attention so He can “discern” that “faith like Abraham”.

Truly, a man made secular philosophy that redefines the gospel, lifting mankind up above God, demanding God respond to their “faith”, ignoring both the work of God Holy Spirit and the sacrafice of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Pitiful, Just plain pitiful and sad

peace to you
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
John 10, Jesus tells them “you do not believe because you are not My sheep”

He does Not say “you are not My sheep because you don’t believe” as you are claiming. They do not believe BECAUSE they are not His Sheep.

This has been explained to you many times but you are simply unwilling or unable to comprehend this truth BECAUSE of your secular man made philosophy that lifts man above God by claiming God must respond to man instead of man responding to God.

Very sad to watch the same error repeated over and over as if thinking by your many words you can change the clear teaching of scripture and make the error true.

peace to you

I agree it is sad to watch you repeat the same error over and over as if thinking by your many words you can change the clear teaching of scripture and make the error true.

Christ was speaking to Jews that should have known who He was but they rejected Him. Those that trust in Him are His sheep. By your continued misunderstanding of scripture you have them being sheep/saved prior to them even knowing or trusting in Him.

I have shown you through scripture that your view is wrong but you just will not trust what the Holy Spirit has said and instead hold to your man-made TULIP/Dog philosophy.

Just because you deny the truth does not alter the truth.

(John 10:24-27) They reject the Son and refuse to trust in Him because they have rejected the Father.

Another way to say this could be "But you do not believe and it is not because you cannot it is because you will not. You have made the choice to reject me.

By your calvinist logic it is because they cannot as God had not picked them out prior to the foundation of the world. Which shows the error of your thinking.
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
I agree it is sad to watch you repeat the same error over and over as if thinking by your many words you can change the clear teaching of scripture and make the error true.

Christ was speaking to Jews that should have known who He was but they rejected Him. Those that trust in Him are His sheep. By your continued misunderstanding of scripture you have them being sheep/saved prior to them even knowing or trusting in Him.

I have shown you through scripture that your view is wrong but you just will not trust what the Holy Spirit has said and instead hold to your man-made TULIP/Dog philosophy.

Just because you deny the truth does not alter the truth.

(John 10:24-27) They reject the Son and refuse to trust in Him because they have rejected the Father.

Another way to say this could be "But you do not believe and it is not because you cannot it is because you will not. You have made the choice to reject me.

By your calvinist logic it is because they cannot as God had not picked them out prior to the foundation of the world. Which shows the error of your thinking.
Again, you prove everything I say is true every time you post, you are simply so blinded by your unbiblical, man made secular philosophy you can’t see it.

Very sad indeed.

peace to you
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I agree it is really sad that you and @canadyjd continue to ignore and deny clear scripture.
It is you that ignores clear scripture. You put yourself in charge of your own salvation. There are many on here who have attempted to get you to understand biblical context but you just consistently ignore the will of God from start to finish. Well that’s up to you and the Holy Ghost, just please stop this unchristian diatribe to those who believe that God made provisions for our ultimate salvation.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Again, you prove everything I say is true every time you post, you are simply so blinded by your unbiblical, man made secular philosophy you can’t see it.

Very sad indeed.

peace to you

The sad thing is that you actually believe what you are saying. You have fallen for the Calvinist philosophy hook line and sinker. The reality is that you are holding to a pagan philosophy and touting it as biblical.

You can try to runaway from the history of calvinism but the truth is the truth. The truth is that very little of what you say is true.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
It is you that ignores clear scripture. You put yourself in charge of your own salvation. There are many on here who have attempted to get you to understand biblical context but you just consistently ignore the will of God from start to finish. Well that’s up to you and the Holy Ghost, just please stop this unchristian diatribe to those who believe that God made provisions for our ultimate salvation.

When have I said man saves himself, never. What I have said and backed it up with scripture is that man has to make a choice to accept or reject salvation through faith in God.

Gods' will is to save those that trust in Him or do you, EWF, not believe scripture?

So please stop with the diatribe that man does not have to respond to God in faith before they are saved.
 
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