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*God is the one who placed Obama as President of these United States of America

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steaver

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carpo;

Huge difference.

God did not make Obama President of the United States.

Did you read what God said about government?

Rom 13:1Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Rom 13:3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Rom 13:4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Rom 13:5Wherefore [ye] must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

:jesus:
 

carpro

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Did you read what God said about government?

Rom 13:1Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Rom 13:3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Rom 13:4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Rom 13:5Wherefore [ye] must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

:jesus:


Sorry, chum. Even the devil can quote off topic out of context scripture.

God does not choose our presidents.
 

steaver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
carpo;

a) There have been many false "discerners", wouldn't you say? So...

b) How long are the "times"? 10 years? 100 years? 1000 years?

c) How does one know they are "discerning" correctly?

d) When the "day or hour" actually arrive?

a) name one

b) don't know

c) scripture prophecy lines up with events taking place in the world.

d) You'll know when the day arrives :thumbs:
 

steaver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
carpo;

Sorry, chum. Even the devil can quote off topic out of context scripture.

God does not choose our presidents.

If you have a rebutal to the passage given then debate it, this is a debate board. You saying it is off topic and out of context proves only that you don't like the post, it irritated you in some way. Show why it is off topic and out of context.

:jesus:
 

carpro

Well-Known Member
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If you have a rebutal to the passage given then debate it, this is a debate board. You saying it is off topic and out of context proves only that you don't like the post, it irritated you in some way. Show why it is off topic and out of context.

:jesus:

Your off topic, out of context scripture, is a poor debate tactic in and of itself. It's just a vehicle for your own theories.

You evidently subscribed to the concept of predestination. I don't.

God is omniscient. He knew Obama would be elected and he allowed us to do it. He will use that election in whatever way He deems will accomplish His purpose.

If what you believe is correct, then we all can just sit back and watch God run the world. No decisions on our part are necessary. We wasted ur time with an election.

So don't get out of bed Monday. You don't have to work. God will fill your bank account with cash. Except you won't need the cash. You'd have to decide how to spend it and God is going to do that for you.

Now quote me some more off topic scripture.

I'm starting to have some fun.:thumbs:
 

OldRegular

Well-Known Member
OldReg;

If this happens seven years after the so-called rapture why would the Apostle Peter need to tell his readers the following:

2 Peter 3:1-4
1. This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2. That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3. Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4. And saying, Where is the promise of his coming?for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.


Now obviously if the "rapture" had happened seven years earlier Peter could not have mede the remarks in verse 4: Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

non response of steaver
The timing of the rapture has no relevance with what Peter said.

That is a total non response. Peter is writing that people are saying "since the fathers fell asleep" nothing untoward has happened. If the rapture had occurred then he could not have made that statement. Are you saying that if millions of people disappear and there is a seven year great tribulation people will continue to say: "since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." You can't be serious!

OldReg;

If Peter is talking about the end of the tribulation period then there could be no millennial reign since he states:and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

non response of steaver
Why not? Do you think this means the earth disappears?

You tell me. You are the one who claims that Jesus Christ will reign on this earth for 1000 years. You might try reading Revelation 20:11-21:1 without a dispensational bias if that is possible.
 

saturneptune

New Member
There are still a few of us who are reading "the signs of the times" as He told us to do.

Many others (as you have seen in this thread ) are just flipping to "Dancing With the Stars", sippin' their suds, and proclaiming, "Where is the promise of His coming--"!

Maybe not in so many words, but by their little cutesy(?) barbs and wannabe witticisms.

Oh well, He said such would be toward the end.

And just for the nay-sayers, nobody, NOBODY, is predicting a date.

MARANATHA
Those who are watching Dancing with the Stars and other such reality shows are already so brain dead they would not know a sign of the times if it came up to their front door and introduced itself.
 

saturneptune

New Member
And then I see the signs of the times going on all around me, which means I log on and write you guys a note of warning of what I see. So, you see....I get out, and it is onlt confirmation that the world is getting pretty bad, and the believers, are simply tickling my ears with "cute" little comments.

Seriously MP, you need to get on your knees and start looking at the Word and how it applies to this day and the times we live in....it is no joke. It is real, and it is the happening thing. We may see the coming of the Lord....what a blessing it is to live in expectation of His supernatural return.:praying:

Forget the Bible for just one second and the end time signs. A little common sense and about 56 years of living will tell anyone we cannot keep going in a downward spiral at this pace. Something has to give. The two root causes are in the last several years greed has gone up at a rate off the chart, plus just general courtesy and caring for each other is almost nonexistent. Something has got to change. Signs are all around. People better start studying to word and get their head away from the brain dead reality shows.
 

steaver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
carpo;

Your off topic, out of context scripture, is a poor debate tactic in and of itself. It's just a vehicle for your own theories.

Here is the topic..."God is the One who placed Obama as President of these United States of America"

Here is the scripture cited....

Rom 13:1Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Rom 13:3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Rom 13:4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Rom 13:5Wherefore [ye] must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

Topic is dead on!

Context of this passage is "rulers" "powers" which is government. Context is dead on!

Christian Debate "tactic" is all about presenting "Truth" which is found in the scriptures. The debate is whether or not the scripture is on topic and in context. SInce you declare it is not, then you need to give an alternate explanation or interpretation of the passage.

Thus far, you seem to be in a tight spot and have transgressed into slanderous rhetoric. This often happens when one is confronted with truth they cannot bear.

You need to show us why the passage is not related to the USA rulers. You can't, so what will you do? You won't accept what God says so you will continue more rhetorical attacks. Sign of a lost debate!

:jesus:
 

steaver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
OldReg;

That is a total non response. Peter is writing that people are saying "since the fathers fell asleep" nothing untoward has happened. If the rapture had occurred then he could not have made that statement. Are you saying that if millions of people disappear and there is a seven year great tribulation people will continue to say: "since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." You can't be serious!

Why would they continue to say it after something does happen? Do you think the people will still be looking for Jesus' return after He returns? Are thye still looking for the temple to be torn down after it was destroyed in 70? You making no sense. You can't be serious!

:jesus:
 

OldRegular

Well-Known Member
OldReg;

That is a total non response. Peter is writing that people are saying "since the fathers fell asleep" nothing untoward has happened. If the rapture had occurred then he could not have made that statement. Are you saying that if millions of people disappear and there is a seven year great tribulation people will continue to say: "since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." You can't be serious!

by steaver
Why would they continue to say it after something does happen? Do you think the people will still be looking for Jesus' return after He returns? Are thye still looking for the temple to be torn down after it was destroyed in 70? You making no sense. You can't be serious!

I will repeat what I said in case you did not understand the first time. Actually I believe you understand since your response does not make sense but you are so steeped in dispensationalism you will not see the truth.

Peter is writing that people are saying "since the fathers fell asleep" nothing untoward has happened. If the rapture had occurred then he could not have made that statement. Are you saying that if millions of people disappear and there is a seven year great tribulation people will continue to say: "since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." You can't be serious!
 

carpro

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Here is the topic..."God is the One who placed Obama as President of these United States of America"

Topic is dead on!

Context of this passage is "rulers" "powers" which is government. Context is dead on!

Christian Debate "tactic" is all about presenting "Truth" which is found in the scriptures. The debate is whether or not the scripture is on topic and in context. SInce you declare it is not, then you need to give an alternate explanation or interpretation of the passage.

Thus far, you seem to be in a tight spot and have transgressed into slanderous rhetoric. This often happens when one is confronted with truth they cannot bear.

You need to show us why the passage is not related to the USA rulers. You can't, so what will you do? You won't accept what God says so you will continue more rhetorical attacks. Sign of a lost debate!

:jesus:

I see you were afraid to deal with the rest of my post. :laugh:

Figures.

This is what you're running from:

You evidently subscribed to the concept of predestination. I don't.

God is omniscient. He knew Obama would be elected and he allowed us to do it. He will use that election in whatever way He deems will accomplish His purpose.

If what you believe is correct, then we all can just sit back and watch God run the world. No decisions on our part are necessary. We wasted ur time with an election.

So don't get out of bed Monday. You don't have to work. God will fill your bank account with cash. Except you won't need the cash. You'd have to decide how to spend it and God is going to do that for you.
 
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steaver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
OldReg;

Are you saying that if millions of people disappear and there is a seven year great tribulation people will continue to say: "since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." You can't be serious!

Maybe I am not understanding what you are saying then.

The "scoffers" are unsaved Jews mocking Christians who believe Jesus will return. They must be Jews since they do acknowledge the "fathers".

These Jews have rejected Jesus as Messiah for they say.... "since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." .....They do not acknowledge that God has changed things since the fathers fell asleep by sending the Messiah.

Peter continues to show their ignorance of scripture because in their statement..."since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.".....they have forgotten how God had brought judgment upon the earth, how after Noah preached for 120 years the earth was flooded and only eight souls were saved. These scoffers are willingly ignorant, they are caught up in their own lust and sin and just like those in Noah's day will be overcome with shock when God returns with judgment and wrath.

Now, after the rapture happens, any "scoffers" will not suddenly say to themselves "oh, Peter was right, God is doing something" no, any scoffers living will be sent a strong delusion....

2Th 2:10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

People will not continue to say... "since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation."....because God's window of Grace will be closed for all of those who heard the gospel and rejected it. During the Tribulation there will not be scoffers saying..."since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation."

:jesus:
 

steaver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
carpo;

I see you were afraid to deal with the rest of my post. :laugh:

Figures.

This is what you're running from:

I believe you are the one "afraid" or "running", don't you think?

Rom 13:1Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Rom 13:3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Rom 13:4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Rom 13:5Wherefore [ye] must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

Topic is dead on!

Context of this passage is "rulers" "powers" which is government. Context is dead on!

Christian Debate "tactic" is all about presenting "Truth" which is found in the scriptures. The debate is whether or not the scripture is on topic and in context. SInce you declare it is not, then you need to give an alternate explanation or interpretation of the passage.

Thus far, you seem to be in a tight spot and have transgressed into slanderous rhetoric. This often happens when one is confronted with truth they cannot bear.

You need to show us why the passage is not related to the USA rulers. You can't, so what will you do? You won't accept what God says so you will continue more rhetorical attacks. Sign of a lost debate!

carpo;

You evidently subscribed to the concept of predestination. I don't.

God is omniscient. He knew Obama would be elected and he allowed us to do it. He will use that election in whatever way He deems will accomplish His purpose.

If what you believe is correct, then we all can just sit back and watch God run the world. No decisions on our part are necessary. We wasted ur time with an election.

So don't get out of bed Monday. You don't have to work. God will fill your bank account with cash. Except you won't need the cash. You'd have to decide how to spend it and God is going to do that for you.

This is all just rhetoric, what do you want me to say? You didn't ask any questions, you didn't post any scripture, what do you want me to say?

You some how think God "allows" things to happen, God does not "cause" things to happen. God is just sitting back watching to see what His little ol creation is going to do! Ok, post some scripture to support this view.

I gave scripture, you have yet to respond with anything other than temper. Try debating with some substance, give some reason why the USA does not fall under "the powers that be".

:jesus:
 

Bro. Curtis

<img src =/curtis.gif>
Site Supporter
Will there be a one-world Gov't-yup. (MP, you need to read your Bible)

Did God allow Obama to gain power-yup.

Did God allow Hitler, Mussolini, Lenin, Attila the Hun,...etc to go on bloody rampages-yup. All after the O/T Temple curtain was torn.

Are you saying we aren't to resist ? Are you saying it was OK to resist some, and not others ? What are you saying, Steaver ?
 

Palatka51

New Member
Will there be a one-world Gov't-yup. (MP, you need to read your Bible)

Did God allow Obama to gain power-yup.

Did God allow Hitler, Mussolini, Lenin, Attila the Hun,...etc to go on bloody rampages-yup. All after the O/T Temple curtain was torn.

Are you saying we aren't to resist ? Are you saying it was OK to resist some, and not others ? What are you saying, Steaver ?

It seems to me that Isaiah spoke of the judgments to come upon Judah then Jeremiah called the nation to repent. Yet the nation did not turn and in fact they imprisoned him. Then when the judgments of Isaiah's prophecies came to be, Jeremiah wrote The Lamentations.

Knowing what Isaiah had said, Would it have been better for Jeremiah if he had just kept his mouth shut?

Not if he knew that he was to answer to God for not preaching what God had given him.
 

Magnetic Poles

New Member
Will there be a one-world Gov't-yup. (MP, you need to read your Bible)
I have read it, Curtis. I subscribe to the concept that many of the passages in The Revelation already occurred in the first century, and referred to the Roman Empire, thus are past events, not future ones, from our vantage point. The western world was, at one time, pretty much under the control of one government.
 
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