God Loved the World (fallen mankind) in this way...

[Darrell C]

Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Who preached (foreseeing is a better translation in my view) the Gospel?

Scripture.

Who only has died and been resurrected not to see, again, death, that death no longer has dominion over him? Jesus of Nazareth. Therefore by God telling Abraham to kill his only son Isaac when he was only a youth the gospel was preached as explained in Hebrews 11:17-19 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

Correct. Because God promised to bless all families of the earth through him, he knew that this meant through his descendants. So he knew God would have to resurrect Isaac because God cannot lie, and does not renege on His promises.

Isaac has not been raised from the dead. Who was received? Gal 3:16? Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Praise God.

But, Abraham, and Israel, saw fulfillment in physical terms, which is not excluded from the Promises of GOd, but was not what was fulfilled when Christ came. Here is an example of the Disciples of Christ still having a physical expectation on the Day of Ascension:


Acts 1:4-7
King James Version (KJV)

4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.


Never ceases to amaze me, lol. They have just been told they are going to be Baptized with the Holy Ghost, and they're concerned about the physical Kingdom promised by God.

I agree that Abraham probably knew nothing of Christ and or Jesus but he understood that death and resurrection were necessary for the blessings of God to come to fruition.

Well, would have been necessary in the case of Isaac, had he been sacrificed.

But praise God, He provided Himself a Lamb...

The Gospel of Jesus Christ simply wasn't revealed in the Age of Law, or any Age prior to that. And seeing that God did bring them into their own land, and fulfilled some promises, it is not strange for them to think they had "arrived." Aren't we glad that isn't the case?


God bless.

 

[Calypsis4]

Darrell C,

(Quote)Overcoming is being saved through faith in Christ. The Lord is basically saying those who place their faith in me, in the case of Revelation 3:5, never be blotted from the Book of Life.

Amen. Couldn't have said it better.

 

[Van]

This is true. I gave quite a few more than one.
God bless.

There is no verse or passage that says we are "declared righteous", not even one. To assert otherwise is to assert falsehood.
The inspired word of God says we are made righteous, the righteousness of God.

 

[Van]

[quote"... because the concept of the faith of Christ being ours in which we believe in Christ is what is presented in such passages as "
Romans 10:17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.[/quote]
When you see a word like "consequently" or "therefore" you need to look back at the preceding verses to better understand the summation. The message or the content of what is being heard is the gospel of Christ. So faith comes from being exposed to the Good News, and the Good News is about salvation through faith in Christ. Thus a worthless sinner needs to heed the gospel admonition to trust fully in Christ alone for his or her salvation.

 

[Yeshua1]

This is how John, who penned Revelation, defines overcoming:


1 John 5:1-5
King James Version (KJV)

1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?


Overcoming is being born of God through faith in Jesus Christ.

Can we apply this to the "overcoming" of Revelation? I feel we can, because Scripture is consistent, and it is the same Writer. So essentially what Chrsit is saying in Revelation 3 is "He that is saved...I will never blot his name out of the Book of Life."

And the implication is that names are blotted from the Book of Life.


God bless.

yes, as Jesus has already overcame for us, and when united with Him thru faith, His victory becomes ours also!

 

[Yeshua1]

There is no verse or passage that says we are "declared righteous", not even one. To assert otherwise is to assert falsehood.
The inspired word of God says we are made righteous, the righteousness of God.

We are NOT infused by God with righteousness, but God declares that in Christ we are already fully perfect as to keeping the Law!

 

[Van]

We are NOT infused by God with righteousness, but God declares that in Christ we are already fully perfect as to keeping the Law!

Assertions without citations are like obfuscation without truth.
Romans 10:17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ. (NIV)
When you see a word like "consequently" or "therefore" you need to look back at the preceding verses to better understand the summation. The message or the content of what is being heard is the gospel of Christ. So faith comes from being exposed to the Good News, and the Good News is about salvation through faith in Christ. Thus a worthless sinner needs to heed the gospel admonition to trust fully in Christ alone for his or her salvation.

 

[Yeshua1]

Assertions without citations are like obfuscation without truth.
Romans 10:17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ. (NIV)
When you see a word like "consequently" or "therefore" you need to look back at the preceding verses to better understand the summation. The message or the content of what is being heard is the gospel of Christ. So faith comes from being exposed to the Good News, and the Good News is about salvation through faith in Christ. Thus a worthless sinner needs to heed the gospel admonition to trust fully in Christ alone for his or her salvation.

The Spirit Himself uses the message of the Lord Jesus to enable those chosen to get saved to now become saved.

 

[Darrell C]

There is no verse or passage that says we are "declared righteous", not even one. To assert otherwise is to assert falsehood.
The inspired word of God says we are made righteous, the righteousness of God.

So show how a context of imputed righteousness does not correlate to these...

Romans 3:22
King James Version (KJV)

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:


It is still the righteousness of God, Van, which by faith is unto all and upon all...who believe.

It is the same way righteousness was imputed to Abraham, by faith. You will see both points in the following passages:



Romans 4:5
King James Version (KJV)

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.



Romans 4:22-24
King James Version (KJV)

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;


Imputed through faith in Jesus Christ, not because one is righteous of himself.

A few more:


Romans 5:17
King James Version (KJV)

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)


1 Corinthians 1:30
King James Version (KJV)

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:


2 Corinthians 5:21
King James Version (KJV)

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.


Philippians 3:9
King James Version (KJV)

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:


Hebrews 11:7
King James Version (KJV)

7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.


Scripture is consistent. Imputed righteousness is by faith, and that implies to all Ages.


God bless.

The righteousness in view is not that of the one said to be righteous, it is imputed to them based on faith.

Either address them or stop reiterating your view. This is a discussion forum, after all. So lets discuss it. SHow why the above is one "being made righteous," not being imputed righteousness.


God bless.

 

[Van]

Assertions without citations are like obfuscation without truth!

 

[Darrell C]

Assertions without citations are like obfuscation without truth.

I agree, but even worse, refusing to address assertions with citations.

Even worse, then reiterating the same assertion, which itself has had not Scriptural citation.




God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

yes, as Jesus has already overcame for us, and when united with Him thru faith, His victory becomes ours also!

This victory is ascribed to those born of God through faith in Christ, which should not be equated with the Victory of Christ.

Christ alone obtained Eternal Redemption for us. We simply benefit from what He did.


God bless.

 

[Van]

So show how a context of imputed righteousness does not correlate to these...

There is no "context of imputed righteousness." That assertion if false.

The righteousness in view is not that of the one said to be righteous, it is imputed to them based on faith.

No one said the worthless sinner was righteous before he or she was made righteous by the circumcision of Christ, the washing of regeneration.

Either address them or stop reiterating your view. This is a discussion forum, after all. So lets discuss it. Show why the above is one "being made righteous," not being imputed righteousness.

I did and you did not.

Lets take just one verse, you post an avalanche of verses, none of which actually contribute to your argument. The ploy is an obvious attempt to make an empty sack seem full.

Romans 3:22 (NASB) even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;
Due to the Greek grammar, Dr. Wallace believes the phrase in red would be better translated as through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ for all...
And what was Christ's faithfulness, it was to be the Lamb of God, to die as a ransom for all, to become the propitiation (means of salvation) for the sins of the whole world, all of fallen mankind.

We are made righteous when we are transferred into Christ. We undergo the circumcision of Christ, we are born anew after undergoing the washing of regeneration.

Bottom line, Romans 3:22 says we obtain the righteousness of God through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ, i.e. through the blood of Christ, and not through being declared righteous.

 

[Darrell C]

So show how a context of imputed righteousness does not correlate to these...

There is no "context of imputed righteousness." That assertion if false.

Just saying it is false doesn't help me to know why it is false, Van. That is why asked, and ask...for you to address those passages in the context they are given (that of showing that righteousness is imputed).

Now you want me to address your proof text, which I am not even arguing against. I know we are "made righteous," but that is irrelevant to what we are discussing, because the focus is on your assertion that we are not declared righteous, or in other words, righteousness is not imputed.

I have given you passages, citations, lol, that show righteousness is very much imputed, which is the Positional Sanctification of the believers, not the Progressive Sanctification of the believer. And the imputation of righteousness is essentially the same issue of being "made righteous."

Now, if you want to say you are righteous, great, but don't expect me to embrace that. No man is, in and of himself, righteous according to the standard of God, not while remaining in fallen flesh, which I am assuming is something you and I both hold in common. If I am wrong about that too, well, you can straighten me out on it.




Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

The righteousness in view is not that of the one said to be righteous, it is imputed to them based on faith.

No one said the worthless sinner was righteous before he or she was made righteous by the circumcision of Christ, the washing of regeneration.

Not even relevant to what I said.

The point is that it is God's righteousness upon and unto all who believe.

Nothing in what I say implies we are discussing believers prior to salvation.

Either address them or stop reiterating your view. This is a discussion forum, after all. So lets discuss it. Show why the above is one "being made righteous," not being imputed righteousness.

I did

Not really, you didn't. Because you aren't even addressing the focus of my point.

and you did not.

Not sure how you can possibly say that. Especially when you haven't addressed any of my points or "citations."

Lets take just one verse, you post an avalanche of verses, none of which actually contribute to your argument. The ploy is an obvious attempt to make an empty sack seem full.

So why don't you take one of the verses I gave and show why, as asked of you, it does not teach imputed righteousness.

Anyone can present reasonable arguments if they are the ones setting the goalposts. I'm not interested in arguing about something I too believe, which is that men are made righteous. What I am interested in is you showing me why the passages presented don't show imputed righteousness.

Nevertheless, I will discuss the verse you want to look at, I don't have a problem with that. But I ask you return the favor and address one of mine.

Romans 3:22 (NASB) even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;
Due to the Greek grammar, Dr. Wallace believes the phrase in red would be better translated as through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ for all...
And what was Christ's faithfulness, it was to be the Lamb of God, to die as a ransom for all, to become the propitiation (means of salvation) for the sins of the whole world, all of fallen mankind.

And the problem is that point is not even relevant to what we are talking about, Van. You stop right at what I emphasized. THis is what I said:


Romans 3:22
King James Version (KJV)

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:


It is still the righteousness of God, Van, which by faith is unto all and upon all...who believe.

It is the same way righteousness was imputed to Abraham, by faith. You will see both points in the following passages:


Did you see the links (and you'll have to go back to the original post, they didn't carry over in the copy)?

The relevant point is that the righteousness in view, whether it is the faith of Christ, or the faith of the believer...

...is unto and upon all.

It is still righteousness attributed to God as His righteousness, not the righteousness of the believer.


Continued...

 

[agedman]

There is no verse or passage that says we are "declared righteous", not even one. To assert otherwise is to assert falsehood.
The inspired word of God says we are made righteous, the righteousness of God.

Wrong.

3for we were once — also we — thoughtless, disobedient, led astray, serving desires and pleasures manifold, in malice and envy living, odious — hating one another; 4and when the kindness and the love to men of God our Saviour did appear 5(not by works that [are] in righteousness that we did but according to His kindness,) He did save us, through a bathing of regeneration, and a renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6which He poured upon us richly, through Jesus Christ our Saviour, 7that having been declared righteous by His grace, heirs we may become according to the hope of life age-during. 8Stedfast [is] the word; and concerning these things I counsel thee to affirm fully, that they may be thoughtful, to be leading in good works — who have believed God; these are the good and profitable things to men,

 

[Darrell C]

We are made righteous when we are transferred into Christ.

Agreed. But why are you arguing about this? That is not what we are discussing. We are discussing whether righteousness is imputed to the believer.

Based on your statement...

There is no verse or passage that says we are "declared righteous", not even one. To assert otherwise is to assert falsehood.

Semantics.

We undergo the circumcision of Christ, we are born anew after undergoing the washing of regeneration.

We are Baptized by Christ with the Holy Ghost.

The "circumcision of Christ" is a result of being immersed into God, just as being born again, a new creature, is. We have a new heart and spirit because He has placed His Spirit within us.

Bottom line, Romans 3:22 says we obtain the righteousness of God through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ, i.e. through the blood of Christ, and not through being declared righteous.

Its the same thing, Van.


God bless.

 

[Yeshua1]

This victory is ascribed to those born of God through faith in Christ, which should not be equated with the Victory of Christ.

Christ alone obtained Eternal Redemption for us. We simply benefit from what He did.


God bless.

We overcome the world and satan due to Him already having done just that!

 

[Yeshua1]

Wrong.

3for we were once — also we — thoughtless, disobedient, led astray, serving desires and pleasures manifold, in malice and envy living, odious — hating one another; 4and when the kindness and the love to men of God our Saviour did appear 5(not by works that [are] in righteousness that we did but according to His kindness,) He did save us, through a bathing of regeneration, and a renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6which He poured upon us richly, through Jesus Christ our Saviour, 7that having been declared righteous by His grace, heirs we may become according to the hope of life age-during. 8Stedfast [is] the word; and concerning these things I counsel thee to affirm fully, that they may be thoughtful, to be leading in good works — who have believed God; these are the good and profitable things to men,

Its declared by God that we are now saved and in Jesus, not the imputed and co operate to merit salvation that Rome teaches.

 

[Darrell C]

We overcome the world and satan due to Him already having done just that!

Our overcoming is likened to His:


Revelation 3:21
King James Version (KJV)

21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.


I would suggest that the overcoming in view is not declared of us, His overcoming imputed on our behalf, but our overcoming refers to our being saved. So He overcame the world, for example, and that is separate from our own overcoming, which refers to our being saved.


God bless.