God Loved the World (fallen mankind) in this way...

[Van]

Another interesting construction is found at 1 Timothy 1:16

16 But because of this I was shown mercy, in order that in me foremost, Christ Jesus might demonstrate his total patience, for an example for those who are going to believe in him for eternal life. (LEB)

The Greek word translated "for" eternal life is "eis" so perhaps the idea is for those who are going to believe in or on Him into eternal life. Our eternal life begins when we are united with Christ which occurs when we are transferred into Christ. The result of God crediting our belief in Christ is eternal life!

 

[Van]

Did you wee where Agedman answered the question? No I didn't either.

How does a worthless sinner believe into Him?

 

[agedman]

Another interesting construction is found at 1 Timothy 1:16 The Greek word translated "for" eternal life is "eis" so perhaps the idea is for those who are going to believe in or on Him into eternal life. Our eternal life begins when we are united with Christ which occurs when we are transferred into Christ. The result of God crediting our belief in Christ is eternal life!

1 Timothy1:

15It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all.16Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

​

There is just no way to take this passage as a statement that Paul self generated enough human belief that God would credit such "belief in Christ is eternal life."

Rather, Paul states that the reason he found mercy was because in him Jesus Christ was to be demonstrated as perfect patience.

 

[SheepWhisperer]

It was addressed many times on multiple threads.

No humankind faith is so important that it can get God's attention that He credits them as righteous.

It is not human faith that initiates salvation.

In the rejection of the truth is the error exposed.

The Bible says that "Abraham believed God" and it was "counted to him for righteousness".
And nobody said "human faith INITIATES salvation". On the contrary: the Holy Ghost initiates salvation when He deals with a man's heart. Y'all know that. Or should.

 

[agedman]

Did you wee where Agedman answered the question? No I didn't either.

How does a worthless sinner believe into Him?

2 Peter1:

To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ: 2Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord;3seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. 4For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust. 5Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, 6and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, 7and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.
​

That YOU cannot see is not evidence that such as have sight cannot.

I have shown by Paul,

I have not shown by Peter.

 

[agedman]

The Bible says that "Abraham believed God" and it was "counted to him for righteousness".
And nobody said "human faith INITIATES salvation". On the contrary: the Holy Ghost initiates salvation when He deals with a man's heart. Y'all know that. Or should.

Van doesn't hold to that.

Rather, Van states that it is Human faith that God recognizes and "credits" for righteousness.

 

[SheepWhisperer]

Van doesn't hold to that.

Rather, Van states that it is Human faith that God recognizes and "credits" for righteousness.

I was addressing that to you, not Van. I agree with him; God imputes the righteousness of Christ onto us when we trust Him in faith.

 

[agedman]

I was addressing that to you, not Van. I agree with him; God imputes the righteousness of Christ onto us when we trust Him in faith.

Scripture?

 

[percho]

The answer lies here:



John 16:7-9
King James Version (KJV)

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;


The natural man cannot understand the spiritual things of God, and the Gospel heads that list. It is the ministry of the Comforter that ministers to the unbeliever (v.9), bringing conviction of sin (that we are sinful and separated from God), righteousness (that He is righteous), and judgment (that we are headed for eternal judgment). It is at that point that men respond, either yielding to the truth shown them by God, or rejecting Him (doing despite unto the Spirit of Grace, Hebrews 10:29).


God bless.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 16:13,14 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
John 10:27-29 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
John 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Just my understanding.

 

[SheepWhisperer]

Scripture?

Romans chapter 4

 

[percho]

More appeals to the unreferenced past, more dodging and obfuscation, but no answer to the fundamental question of Christianity.
How does a worthless sinner believe into Christ? Do we need to know Greek and Hebrew or can we grasp the gospel from a translation? Ever noticed when we are said to be believing, the verb is not passive, as it would be if the Cal "gift of faith" doctrine was not in error. How about the apparently deeply hidden secret that we must be drawn by the Father and we must have heard and learned from the Father, and we must believe on the Father. What else does scripture teach?

The answer to me is found here. Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

 

[SheepWhisperer]

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 16:13,14 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
John 10:27-29 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
John 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Just my understanding.

Well yeah! Of course those who "believe not" aren't "sheep". But it doesn't say "ye SHALL believe not, because ye are not my sheep" Your lost neighbor down the road doesn't believe either, because he ain't one of God's sheep. But if you go tell him about Jesus, he might just become one. Why was Jesus telling them this? Wasting time? No. Why would God Himself preach to lost sinners He had no intention of "enabling"? He wouldn't.

 

[agedman]

Well yeah! Of course those who "believe not" aren't "sheep". But it doesn't say "ye SHALL believe not, because ye are not my sheep" Your lost neighbor down the road doesn't believe either, because he ain't one of God's sheep. But if you go tell him about Jesus, he might just become one. Why was Jesus telling them this? Wasting time? No. Why would God Himself preach to lost sinners He had no intention of "enabling"? He wouldn't.

It is with the “foolishness of preaching” that the sheep hear.

 

[percho]

I was addressing that to you, not Van. I agree with him; God imputes the righteousness of Christ onto us when we trust Him in faith.

1st where in scripture is this phrase found? righteousness of Christ

I believe the righteousness of God is imputed unto us because of this.

who in the days of his flesh both prayers and supplications unto Him who was able to save him from death -- with strong crying and tears -- having offered up, and having been heard in respect to that which he feared, through being a Son, did learn by the things which he suffered -- the obedience, YLT Hebrews 5:7,8 - 9 and having been made perfect, he did become to all those obeying him a cause of salvation age-during, --- I believe that is, obedience of faith, Nouns.....

Romans 5:19 YLT for as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall the many be constituted righteous.

 

[agedman]

It is alarming that there are posts that disregard 1 Corinthians 2 were it states:

14The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
​

The is no attention or intent for that person to believe without the direct and purposed work of salvation by the Holy Spirit.

“My sheep hear” but all others do not.

 

[Yeshua1]

It is alarming that there are posts that disregard 1 Corinthians 2 were it states:

14The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
​

The is no attention or intent for that person to believe without the direct and purposed work of salvation by the Holy Spirit.

“My sheep hear” but all others do not.

Jesus stated many times that "those who have ears, let them hear"

 

[Katarina Von Bora]

Faith is not a gift, salvation is the gift and the power to obtain salvation is in the gospel (Romans 1:16) and the ability to hear and understand the gospel comes from the preaching of the gospel (Romans 10:17). There is no unseen projection of faith by God. Faith comes from the preaching of the gospel, no place else.

You should rethink this and do more study of the Bible.

 

[Katarina Von Bora]

I see several topics addressed, but no one addressed how a worthless sinner believes into Him. The Cal's regurgitated their falsehood assertion that a sinner cannot believe such that God would credit their faith as righteousness. Never mind Romans chapter 4.

How does one get chosen to be set apart in Christ except through faith in the truth? No verse will be forthcoming. Thus believing into Christ occurs when God credits the worthless sinner's worthless faith as righteousness and sets him or her apart in Christ.

Unconditional election.



John 1:13English Standard Version (ESV)

13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.



Mark 13:20English Standard Version (ESV)

20 And if the Lord had not cut short the days, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he shortened the days.



Ephesians 1:4-5English Standard Version (ESV)

4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,



Revelation 13:8English Standard Version (ESV)

8 and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.



Revelation 17:8English Standard Version (ESV)

8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come.





Romans 9:11-13English Standard Version (ESV)

11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”



Romans 9:16English Standard Version (ESV)
16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.



Romans 9:10-24English Standard Version (ESV)

10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?



Romans 10:20English Standard Version (ESV)

20 Then Isaiah is so bold as to say,

“I have been found by those who did not seek me;
I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me.”



1 Corinthians 1:27-29English Standard Version (ESV)

27 But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; 28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, 29 so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.



2 Timothy 1:9English Standard Version (ESV)

9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,



Acts 13:48English Standard Version (ESV)

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.



1 Peter 2:8English Standard Version (ESV)

8 and

“A stone of stumbling,
and a rock of offense.”

They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.



John 6:39English Standard Version (ESV)

39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.



Romans 8:28-29English Standard Version (ESV)

28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

 

[Revmitchell]

You should rethink this and do more study of the Bible.

You should rethink your arrogance and let it go.

 

[Katarina Von Bora]

You should rethink your arrogance and let it go.

Ooooooooooh name calling.

It seems that faith does come from God.

John 6:29English Standard Version (ESV)

29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”


Romans 12:3English Standard Version (ESV)

3 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.


Hebrews 12:1-2English Standard Version (ESV)

12 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.


Quoting the Bible is not arrogance. It's a trait that every Christian should learn to master.