Is this the sum of your animosity towards Sovereign Grace? You don't like the idea of eternal security for the child of God?
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
God made them the vessels of wrath !
- Thread starter Brightfame52
- Start date
Is this the sum of your animosity towards Sovereign Grace? You don't like the idea of eternal security for the child of God?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
So now you are denying what you said.
So, ky, explain to me how they physically perished in the wilderness, in unbelief, with no eternal consequences.
Paul said that they could not enter into God's rest because of unbelief.
I hope we agree that God's rest was at that time before Christ paid the sin debt of man, therefore man could not enter into the presence of God, but the saved entered into Abraham's bosom, or as Christ called it, Paradise.
But these in unbelief did not enter into Abraham's bosom, but hell itself!
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Okay so your logical conclusion is way off
I did already, you’re just not paying attention or comprehending.
post #123 God made them the vessels of wrath !
You’re too anxious to be a ‘Calvinist slayer’ to place any serious thought into these things.
No, I'm not anxious to do that. I'm just asking if those Hebrews that died in the wilderness in unbelief, if their souls are not in God's rest, as Paul said, and they're not in Hell, as you said, then where are they?
Are they in that Catholic limbo, have they ceased to exist, where are they?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
So you do not have any support for your radical view. Got it.
You continue to make false claims but when challenged you fold your tent and slink off into the night.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Okay so your logical conclusion is way off
Of an estimated 2 1/2 million souls that were redeemed from the House of Bondage, only two out of that original generation, Joshua and Caleb, were allowed in. Even Moses and Aaron entered not in because of unbelief. Canaan does not typify heaven above in the Exodus Motif, it typifies all the bennies of the New Covenant.
That doesn't pass the test of reality!
These were real people, in real unbelief, in a real wilderness, with real souls.
Their physical remains are somewhere in the dust of the earth, but their souls are still very much alive.
Where are they, if not in hell through unbelief?
Wherever Moses and Aaron are.
Hell, hell, hell. Hell on the brain. Sad.
Last edited:
If you're so sure they're not in hell, and for sure Paul said they're not in His rest, where are they?
It's not a difficult question.
You're a PB and you don't know where Moses and Aaron are?
There's only one alternative, you're a Universalist, the UR.
In that case, the Scripture plainly place all unbelievers in the Lake of Fire, without all the fanfare, show me plainly in Scripture where they get out.
By type, wherever Moses and Aaron are.
Moses and Aaron were no different than the others.
19 And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. Heb 3
And Jehovah said unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed not in me, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them. Nu 20:12
My goodness, ky, you can't see the difference between the failure to believe in Moses and Aaron, vs the failure to believe in the Hebrew people?
Moses and Aaron failed to obey God when they gathered the people together. Num. 20:7-11.
God told Moses the "speak to the Rock" to get the water, but Moses and Aaron were angry with the people and Moses out-right disobeyed God by "striking the Rock."
This was a very serious sin, in that the "Rock" represented Christ giving them the water through what He would do at Calvary on the Cross/ the living water..
By striking the Rock/Christ instead of speaking to it, Moses placed himself in the position of suppying the water and not Christ. this was a very serious sin but forgivable, although it cost Moses the privilege of leading the Hebrew people into the Promised Land.
On the other hand, the unbelief of the people was faith in God for salvation, an unforgivable sin.
Hopefully you can see the difference!
Both were denied entrance because of their unbelief.
No, that is absolutely incorrect!
In Luke 16:28-31, Moses is presented as a type of the righteousness of God.
The beggar died and went to Paradise, the rich man died and lift his eyes in hell.
Being tormented in the flames the rich man asked father Abraham to send Lazarus to his brothers so they would never go to this place of torment.
Abraham used Moses to represent the righteousness of God through Moses' example.
Abraham said to the rich man in torment,
Luke 16:31
"And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
<sigh>
By type, Moses and Aaron were no different than the others.
19 And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. Heb 3
And Jehovah said unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed not in me, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them. Nu 20:12
Both were denied entrance because of their unbelief.
WOW, and you claim to be a Baptist! Almost Unbelievable!
But none of this effects your justification by faith in Christ, for that I'm thankful.