God made them the vessels of wrath !

[Brightfame52]

You lost me at "glory for their sins".

But I agree God creates men who will be saved from wrath and men who will experience that wrath.

Yes God Gets Glory for Showing Mercy on some men who are sinners Rom 9:23

And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Rom 15 9


And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.

Ex 34 7


Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

 

[Brightfame52]

Being of the Vessels of Wrath, them whom God purposely created to fit them for destruction, its the reasonable and necessary consequence of God having elected/chosen some people in Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4, to be Vessels of Mercy. God did predetermine before the foundation to create some people outside of the Electing Love in Christ; He had determined not to write their names in the Lambs Book of Life, hence to never be redeemed by His redeeming blood 1 Pet 1:18-20

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,4

 

[Brightfame52]

They are appointed to disobey the Gospel !

The Gospel of Christ, His Person and Work for His Chosen People, and all that it entails and effects, what it accomplishes, was not in Gods Eternal Purpose for all to believe or obey, for God had appointed many to disobey it, not believe it 1 Pet 2:8

And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

And what is the outcome of disobeying the Gospel of God ? Paul writes here 2 Thess 1:6-9

Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Thats right, God had appointed them to this disobedience, to obey not the Gospel. Notice Vs 9 they shall be punished with everlasting destruction. The word destruction is derived from the very same word destruction in Rom 9:22

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

It has to do with eternal death, ruin and misery ! God appointed the vessels of wrath unto this end ! 4

 

[Brightfame52]

Cain was a child of the devil, a Vessel of wrath

The Two seed doctrine goes back to the beginning of world history Gen 3:15, and cain was a vessel of wrath, a child of the wicked one 1 Jn 3:12

12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

Remember John just had written that the children of the devil become manifested 1 Jn 3:10

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Notice in the greek text:

ἐν τούτῳ φανερά ἐστιν τὰ τέκνα τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ τὰ τέκνα τοῦ διαβόλου πᾶς ὁ μὴ ποιῶν δικαιοσύνην οὐκ ἔστιν ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ ὁ μὴ ἀγαπῶν τὸν ἀδελφὸν αὐτοῦ

There's the definite article before children tekna both times, The Children of God and The children of the devil, two separate, distinct, and definite groups

The Children of God are redeemable, them Christ came to die for and gather Jn 11:51-52

51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;


52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

καὶ οὐχ ὑπὲρ τοῦ ἔθνους μόνον ἀλλ᾽ ἵνα καὶ τὰ τέκνα τοῦ θεοῦ τὰ διεσκορπισμένα συναγάγῃ εἰς ἕν

How are they gathered and manifested ? By Faith in Jesus Christ there kinsman redeemer Rom 8:16


The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Gal 3:26

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

You see, if we are of the redeemed seed of Gods children, we receive the Spirit, which gives us the fruit of Faith Gal 5:22, so manifesting us as the children of God , Vessels of Mercy. However those of mankind that live and die in unbelief manifest themselves as the children of the devil, vessels of wrath being fitted for destruction ! 5

 

[Brightfame52]

Gods purpose for making the reprobate/the vessels of wrath, is to show or demonstrate His Wrath against human sin. This is altogether humbling to the Vessels of Mercy, in that they realize that the Sovereign Potter had the right and power to have made them also Vessels of Wrath and to fit them for destruction, but He had chosen them in Christ to be Vessels of Mercy to And that he might make known the riches of his glory

Eph 1:18

The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

See also Eph 3:16;Phil 4:19;Col 1:27

 

[Brightfame52]

The vessels of wrath are to be fitted for destruction in the purpose of God.

Its never Gods purpose for the vessels of wrath to be saved from the wrath to come, in fact its His design for them to fill up the measure of their sin. Jesus told some men this Matt 23:31-33

31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.


32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.


33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?


In Vs 32, Jesus is giving a command or an imperative to this wicked seed of the serpent, not to repent, but to continue in the wickedness of their fathers in killing the people of God, even Christ Himself, and gave them no hope at all of escaping the damnation of hell !

No, they are not of those which Jesus came to call to repentance, but contrary, they must continue in hardheartedness and rebellion to fill up their measure being fitted for destruction, even damnation ! 5

 

[Brightfame52]

The vessels of wrath are to be fitted for destruction in the purpose of God.

Matt 23:32-33 ; Rom 9:22

All who are vessels of wrath are compelled by the decree of God to fill up the measure of their sins and enmity against God, so making apparent their meetness for destruction, and so God shows how He is Just in punishing them for their sins, Col 3:5-6

Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:


6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

God had determined before the world began, what degree of punishment the vessels of wrath would be fitted for, each one.6

 

[Brightfame52]

They were appointed to disobey the Gospel !


Paul writes in 2 Thess 1:8

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:


This obeying not the Gospel, so that God would be just in taking vengeance upon them, was no accident, no it was part of Gods eternal decree for them.

They're just like the ones Peter describes in 1 Pet 2:7-8

Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed

The word appointed tithémi

means where they were placed, set, or destined, fixed [as in fixed in the counsels of God] established ! Remember words David wrote of God establishing something Ps 89:4

Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Its fixed in the counsels of God ! So were these to obey not the Gospel, it was never for them to obey ! 7

 

[Brightfame52]

They were appointed to disobey the Gospel !2

Those who disobey the Gospel must and will suffer the vengeance of God, or His Wrath, which they were ordained to disobey, as were these jews Peter wrote of 1 Pet 2:8

And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them whichstumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

Their stumbling at the word and disobeying it was appointed by God.

However this is contrasted with those God has not appointed to disobedience and wrath 1 Thess 5:9

For God hath not appointed us [the chosen to salvation 2 Thess 2:13] to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

The word appointed here is the same word appointed in 1 Pet 2:8, which shows God has not ordained some to disobedience and wrath, and vengeance as He did others , but to obtain salvation through Christ their Surety !

 

[Brightfame52]

The Sovereign Lord made the wicked for the day of evil !

Prov 16:4

The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Ps 9:16-17

The Lord is known by the judgment which he executeth: the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands. Higgaion. Selah.


The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

This is the work of God, the turning the wicked into hell, thats their evil day God has made them. This God settled and determined in the first place Rom 9:13-22


As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

God made the wicked for the dishonour and shame of hell ! 7

 

[Brightfame52]

Those sinners that God appointed wrath 1 Thess 5:9

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Are sinners that never had their names written in the lambs book of life.

 

[Brightfame52]

The Old Testament also mentions the Vessels of Wrath fitted for destruction. Mal 1:4

Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the Lord of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the Lord hath indignation for ever.

This is a people hated by the Lord, and that forever! It's a eternal indignation.They are a cursed people. Jesus says to them Matt 25:41

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Rom 2:8

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

These had been appointed to Wrath and indignation, and Condemnation! 7

 

[Brightfame52]

Did God Predestinate some to Hell/Wrath ?

The answer is absolutely Yes. They are in scripture called the vessels of wrath Rom 9:22

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

These are men and women who by the purpose of the Almighty are being fitted for and fitting themselves for destruction. These are they God has purposed to reject and harden in their natural disobedience and rebellion against Him Eph 2:2-3

This has been purposed by God from within Himself, and according to His own purpose. This is natural to the Supreme Being Eph 1:9,11

Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself

In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

The Supreme Being worketh all things according to His Purpose, after the counsel of His Own Will. This certainly applies to the issues of death, even eternal death 1 Sam 2:6

The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up

The word LORD here is an emphasis on God being Supreme and Sovereign.8

 

[Brightfame52]

Did God Predestinate some to Hell/Wrath ?

Yes and it wasn't based upon foreseen evil that they will do, for all men by nature are evil. Yes though they shall be condemned for doing evil,, nevertheless that wasn't Gods primary motive for rejecting them in the first place. His primary motive is found only within Himself. And so this is what leads Paul to anticipate the natural human response to such a High Doctrine Rom 9:18-19

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.


19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

In other words Paul, if its Gods absolute Sovereign will to harden and reject sinners without regard to any outside influence, or the sinners foreseen evil, then why does He find fault with them if they didn't have a choice in the matter ? The conclusion is that God is at fault or unjust to condemn sinners who never had a choice or opportunity for mercy !

 

[Brightfame52]

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

God hardens mens heart unto disobedience for the purpose of destruction !


This is a stated attribute of the One True and Living God that the carnal man cant receive and also blasphemes God for !

Yes man does harden his own heart as stated in Exodus of the pharaoh here Ex 8:32

And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go.

However that followed suite after God first hardened his heart as stated He would do from the outset Ex 4:21

And the Lord said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.


See, f God has purposed to harden ones heart, then that person has no choice but to harden his own heart, because no one can resist His Will.

Thats why Paul in writing Rom 9 and borrowing from the exodus narrative about God hardening his heart, he makes no reference to pharaoh hardening his own heart as its stated in Ex 8:32.

Because thats only the by product of God by His power hardening pharaoh heart according to His own purpose.

 

[Brightfame52]

When God created the world and made men He had already purposed that a mass of people would go to hell and destruction for their wickedness, that they were never included with them He had purposed to save in Christ as these were 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

They were excluded from this Gods own purpose and Grace in Christ Jesus before the world began !

They are called the reprobate, the vessels of wrath fitted for destruction Rom 9:22

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

The wicked Prov 16:4

The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Job 21:30

That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought[carried or borne] forth to the day of wrath.

Please understand this sobering truth about the God of the scripture that God purposely made these people vessels of wrath ! 10

 

[Brightfame52]

The lake of fire was made for them God predestinated to hell/wrath !


This is true because of what Jesus says here Matt 25:41

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:


Now the word prepared the greek word hetoimazō :



It means in this context to have been ordained, predetermined as in Rev 9:15

And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men

Now this lake f fire was prepared for specific certain ones according to Jesus words Matt 25:41 the devil and his angels or messengers.

Now who are the devil and his angels ? We all know the devil is, however something is being revealed here in this text as to who his angels/messengers are. Its not limited to the angelic angels, but it includes the goats of mankind on Christ left hand. All who like the devil are under the curse. All the unsaved cursed under their sins against the law, are messengers of the devil. They worship him and their names were not written in the Lambs book Rev 20:15

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

This lake of fire is the same place Jesus refers to in Matt 25:41 ! 9

 

[Brightfame52]

The devil's messengers whom the lake of fire was prepared for, are them whose names were not written in the book of life, which simply are them whom God never Chose in Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4.

 

[Brightfame52]

Another scripture that more than indicates that God purposely created some men for destruction and wrath in the final day of Judgment is Rom 9:21-22

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?


22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Its revealed here that the Sovereign God has the absolute right to make, create, fashion, construct, to author and appoint men to destruction, dishonor or disgrace.

The word dishonour is the greek word atimia and means:

disgrace, dishonor; a dishonorable use.

Now the word disgrace, the english word means:

the loss of respect, honor, or esteem; ignominy; shame:
the disgrace of criminals.

Which coincides with what God says in Daniel regarding the reprobate raised in the last day Dan 12:2

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Now they were created by God n purpose to suffer eternal shame and contempt ! 9

 

[Charlie24]

Another scripture that more than indicates that God purposely created some men for destruction and wrath in the final day of Judgment is Rom 9:21-22

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?


22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Its revealed here that the Sovereign God has the absolute right to make, create, fashion, construct, to author and appoint men to destruction, dishonor or disgrace.

The word dishonour is the greek word atimia and means:

disgrace, dishonor; a dishonorable use.

Now the word disgrace, the english word means:

the loss of respect, honor, or esteem; ignominy; shame:
the disgrace of criminals.

Which coincides with what God says in Daniel regarding the reprobate raised in the last day Dan 12:2

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Now they were created by God n purpose to suffer eternal shame and contempt ! 9

This is some messed up stuff right here! A total lack of understanding God's Word!

2 Peter 3:9
"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

God wants all men/women to repent. He has not chosen anyone for everlasting punishment as you claim!

I wouldn't want to face God throwing this accusation in His face!