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God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved

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kyredneck

kyredneck

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Steven Yeadon said:
I would compare Christ more to the snake lifted up in the desert (John 3:14).
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He was lifted up for those WHO WERE BITTEN.

In the type, not all had the need to look upon the brazen serpent.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up;
15 that whosoever believeth may in him have eternal life. Jn 3

8 And Jehovah said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a standard: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he seeth it, shall live. Nu 21

Note that the brazen serpent was lifted up for those that were bitten. Those NOT bitten had no need to go to the brazen serpent.

.........They that are whole have no need of a physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners. Mk 2:17

6 Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Mt 5

It is the Spirit working within His children that causes them to feel their need for the Savior.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

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kyredneck said:
He was lifted up for those WHO WERE BITTEN
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Jesus is here talking about being "lifted up", and comparing it to the snake that Moses lifted up. 2 verses later Jesus tells us clearly that this is for "the entire human race", or is Jesus wrong and the Calvinist/Reformed right?
 
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Steven Yeadon

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AustinC said:
Dave shared what the Bible says. Please don't close your mind to what the Bible actually says.
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With respect, I became a believer in TULIP for a time, to find it didn't make sense of many bible passages. I agree that God does not want any to perish. The reason some do perish is because God wants to reveal His wrath fully and reveal the riches of His glory to the saints.
 
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AustinC

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Steven Yeadon said:
With respect, I became a believer in TULIP for a time, to find it didn't make sense of many bible passages. I agree that God does not want any to perish. The reason some do perish is because God wants to reveal His wrath fully and reveal the riches of His glory to the saints.
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Steve, we can read the Bible and see what God teaches.
We can read in scripture that we cannot save ourselves.
We are saved by unmerited favor (grace).
God chooses whom He wills. When God chooses, humans cannot thwart His choice.
Those who believe will be kept by God to eternity.
Do you think these truths are not expressed by God in the Bible?
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
Read the Bible. It's right there. If you refuse to read the Bible, don't blame Dave or myself.
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what do you mean "blame"? You are free to have your beliefs, as I am mine. You say that yours are based on the Bible, and so do I. No one can really argue against what Paul says in the OP passage from 1 Timothy 2, where it is very clear to the open-minded, that ALL here means just that, and God does not desire any of these ALL to persish, and Jesus is the "ransom" for their sins, IF they only "repented and believed",as Jesus says in Mark 1:15, which most Reformed ignore
 
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AustinC

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Steven Yeadon said:
With respect, I became a believer in TULIP for a time, to find it didn't make sense of many bible passages. I agree that God does not want any to perish. The reason some do perish is because God wants to reveal His wrath fully and reveal the riches of His glory to the saints.
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Do you see your contradiction?

"God does not want any to perish."

"The reason some do perish is because God wants to reveal His wrath fully."

Which is it, Steve?
If God doesn't want any to perish, how can he want to reveal His wrath on some? His wants would contradict itself and leave God confused.

I suggest you search scripture to see what God actually says.
 
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AustinC

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SavedByGrace said:
what do you mean "blame"? You are free to have your beliefs, as I am mine. You say that yours are based on the Bible, and so do I. No one can really argue against what Paul says in the OP passage from 1 Timothy 2, where it is very clear to the open-minded, that ALL here means just that, and God does not desire any of these ALL to persish, and Jesus is the "ransom" for their sins, IF they only "repented and believed",as Jesus says in Mark 1:15, which most Reformed ignore
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Actually, Dave has shown you, through scripture, how the Bible as a whole interprets your one verse. Yet, you refuse to accept the whole of God's word. In truth, you are responding in the same way that a cult would respond to the Bible. Isolate a verse and create a doctrine from a sentence while ignoring the rest of the Bible. I encourage you not to do such a thing. Let all scripture teach you.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

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AustinC said:
Actually, Dave has shown you, through scripture, how the Bible as a whole interprets your one verse. Yet, you refuse to accept the whole of God's word. In truth, you are responding in the same way that a cult would respond to the Bible. Isolate a verse and create a doctrine from a sentence while ignoring the rest of the Bible. I encourage you not to do such a thing. Let all scripture teach you.
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how comes you and Dave and the rest, not deal with the passage in question, from 1 Timothy, instead of trying to convince yourselves that this should be ignored, and just look to explain it away? Why not just tell me from THIS pasage ALONE, what the Apostle Paul means by ALL in its context? very simple!
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
Let us observe 1 Timothy 2:1-7.

First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time. For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

Note that we are to supplicate, pray, intercede and thank God for those in governmental authority over us.
This prayer pleases God

Why? Because God wants all to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

Look at this. God does not discriminate by status. God doesn't just save Jews, or the poor, or men or slaves. God saves anyone He so chooses. We are to pray with supplication, intercession and thanksgiving for our governmental leaders because God can save them. Read what Paul is saying. Understand the context. It's right there. Please, stop being narrow-minded and closed to what God is saying in this passage.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

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AustinC said:
or all people, for kings and all who are in high positions
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THREE distinct classes mentioned here, 1, "ALL people"; 2. "kings"; 3. "ALL in high positions". It is these ALL that God desires to be saved and for whom Jesus died.

I doubt if either of our positions will change here, so I won't be spending any more time on this with you. I will you well in your life.
 
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