God's CHOSEN are always SAVED

[atpollard]

Maybe it wasn’t a fail at all. Make sure you’re not putting your own meaning into the words.

But keep studying.

Here is the word that I am chasing down:

• [Mat 22:14 NASB] 14 "For many are called, but few [are] chosen."[G1588]
• [Mat 24:22, 24, 31 NASB] 22 "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect[G1588] those days will be cut short. ... 24 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.[G1588] ... 31 "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect[G1588] from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
• [Mar 13:20, 22, 27 NASB] 20 "Unless the Lord had shortened [those] days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect,[G1588] whom He chose, He shortened the days. ... 22 for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect.[G1588] ... 27 "And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect[G1588] from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.
• [Luk 18:7 NASB] 7 now, will not God bring about justice for His elect[G1588] who cry to Him day and night, and will He delay long over them?
• [Luk 23:35 NASB] 35 And the people stood by, looking on. And even the rulers were sneering at Him, saying, "He saved others; let Him save Himself if this is the Christ of God, His Chosen[G1588] One."[G1588]
• [Rom 8:33 NASB] 33 Who will bring a charge against God's elect?[G1588] God is the one who justifies;
• [Rom 16:13 NASB] 13 Greet Rufus, a choice[G1588] man[G1588] in the Lord, also his mother and mine.
• [Col 3:12 NASB] 12 So, as those who have been chosen[G1588] of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience;
• [1Ti 5:21 NASB] 21 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of [His] chosen[G1588] angels, to maintain these [principles] without bias, doing nothing in a [spirit of] partiality.
• [2Ti 2:10 NASB] 10 For this reason I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen,[G1588] so that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus [and] with [it] eternal glory.
• [Tit 1:1 NASB] 1 Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen[G1588] of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness,
• [1Pe 1:1 NASB] 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen[G1588]
• [1Pe 2:4, 6, 9 NASB] 4 And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice[G1588] and precious in the sight of God, ... 6 For [this] is contained in Scripture: "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE[G1588] STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER [stone,] AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." ... 9 But you are A CHOSEN[G1588] RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR [God's] OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
• [2Jo 1:1, 13 NASB] 1 The elder to the chosen[G1588] lady and her children, whom I love in truth; and not only I, but also all who know the truth, ... 13 The children of your chosen[G1588] sister greet you.
• [Rev 17:14 NASB] 14 "These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him [are the] called and chosen[G1588] and faithful."

I want to know who "the elect", "the chosen", "His elect", "His chosen", God's elect" and "God's chosen" (depending on your translation) are! Some say they are "saved and unsaved selected for a purpose", but that is not what I see when I look at the "ἐκλεκτός" [G1588] in scripture. I was told that the Jews are the "chosen/elect" and we gentiles are reading ourselves into scripture that is not about us. So I began my search in the OT with God's "chosen" (H972) as equivalent to God's "elect" (G1588).

Can you honestly say any of these verses using (G1588) in the LXX are talking about the subject and people that I am looking to understand?

• [Gen 23:6 KJV] 6 Hear us, my lord: thou [art] a mighty prince among us: in the choice of our sepulchres bury thy dead; none of us shall withhold from thee his sepulchre, but that thou mayest bury thy dead.
• [Gen 41:2 KJV] 2 And, behold, there came up out of the river seven well favoured kine and fat fleshed; and they fed in a meadow.
• [Gen 41:4 KJV] 4 And the ill favoured and lean fleshed kine did eat up the seven well favoured and fat kine. So Pharaoh awoke.
• [Gen 41:5 KJV] 5 And he slept and dreamed the second time: and, behold, seven ears of corn came up upon one stalk, rank and good.

"Make sure you’re not putting your own meaning into the words."
I think I have.

 

[Yeshua1]

Saved not being saved? And predestination is a wonderful thing . The Adoption is what we are looking forward to .

We are already adopted as children of God!

 

[MB]

We are already adopted as children of God!

prove it with scripture please?.
MB

 

[Yeshua1]

People keep telling me that God chooses people for a purpose, but that does not mean that they are saved and offer the Jews that reject Jesus as an example of God's "chosen people" who are not saved. To the core of my being that feels like "HORSE-FEATHERS"! So let's start with the OT and take a close look at the verses on God's chosen:

The word is Strong's H972: בָּחִיר bâchîyr, baw-kheer'; from H977; select:—choose, chosen one, elect.

Here are all of the Old Testament verses that contain that word:

• [2Sa 21:6 NASB] 6 let seven men from his sons be given to us, and we will hang them before the LORD in Gibeah of Saul, the chosen[H972] of the LORD." And the king said, "I will give [them.]"
• [1Ch 16:13 NASB] 13 O seed of Israel His servant, Sons of Jacob, His chosen[H972] ones![H972]
• [Psa 89:3 NASB] 3 "I have made a covenant with My chosen;[H972] I have sworn to David My servant,
• [Psa 105:6 NASB] 6 O seed of Abraham, His servant, O sons of Jacob, His chosen[H972] ones![H972]
  
• [Psa 105:43 NASB]43 And He brought forth His people with joy, His chosen[H972] ones[H972] with a joyful shout.
• [Psa 106:5NASB] 5 That I may see the prosperity of Your chosen[H972] ones,[H972] That I may rejoice in the gladness of Your nation, That I may glory with Your inheritance.
  
• [Psa 106:23 NASB] 23 Therefore He said that He would destroy them, Had not Moses His chosen[H972] one stood in the breach before Him, To turn away His wrath from destroying [them.]
• [Isa 42:1 NASB] 1 "Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My chosen[H972] one [in whom] My soul delights. I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the nations.
• [Isa 43:20 NASB] 20 "The beasts of the field will glorify Me, The jackals and the ostriches, Because I have given waters in the wilderness And rivers in the desert, To give drink to My chosen[H972] people.
• [Isa 45:4 NASB] 4 "For the sake of Jacob My servant, And Israel My chosen[H972] [one,] I have also called you by your name; I have given you a title of honor Though you have not known Me.
• [Isa 65:9 NASB] 9 "I will bring forth offspring from Jacob, And an heir of My mountains from Judah; Even My chosen[H972] ones[H972] shall inherit it, And My servants will dwell there.
  
• [Isa 65:15 NASB] 15 "You will leave your name for a curse to My chosen[H972] ones,[H972] And the Lord GOD will slay you. But My servants will be called by another name.
  
• [Isa 65:22 NASB] 22 "They will not build and another inhabit, They will not plant and another eat; For as the lifetime of a tree, [so will be] the days of My people, And My chosen[H972] ones[H972] will wear out the work of their hands.

Starting with [2 Samuel 21]

1 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David sought the presence of the LORD. And the LORD said, “It is for Saul and his bloody house, because he put the Gibeonites to death.” 2 So the king called the Gibeonites and spoke to them (now the Gibeonites were not of the sons of Israel but of the remnant of the Amorites, and the sons of Israel [fn]made a covenant with them, but Saul had sought to [fn]kill them in his zeal for the sons of Israel and Judah). 3 Thus David said to the Gibeonites, “What should I do for you? And how can I make atonement that you may bless the inheritance of the LORD?” 4 Then the Gibeonites said to him, “We have no concern of silver or gold with Saul or his house, nor is it for us to put any man to death in Israel.” And he said, “I will do for you whatever you say.” 5 So they said to the king, “The man who consumed us and who planned [fn]to exterminate us from remaining within any border of Israel, 6 let seven men from his sons be given to us, and we will [fn]hang them before the LORD in Gibeah of Saul, the chosen of the LORD.” And the king said, “I will give them.”

7 But the king spared Mephibosheth, the son of Jonathan the son of Saul, because of the oath of the LORD which was between them, between David and Saul’s son Jonathan. 8 So the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, Armoni and Mephibosheth whom she had borne to Saul, and the five sons of [fn]Merab the daughter of Saul, whom she had borne to Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite. 9 Then he gave them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they [fn]hanged them in the mountain before the LORD, so that the seven of them fell together; and they were put to death in the first days of harvest at the beginning of barley harvest.

10 And Rizpah the daughter of Aiah took sackcloth and spread it for herself on the rock, from the beginning of harvest until [fn]it rained on them from the sky; and she [fn]allowed neither the birds of the sky to rest on them by day nor the beasts of the field by night. 11 When it was told David what Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, the concubine of Saul, had done, 12 then David went and took the bones of Saul and the bones of Jonathan his son from the men of Jabesh-gilead, who had stolen them from the open square of Beth-shan, where the Philistines had hanged them on the day the Philistines struck down Saul in Gilboa. 13 He brought up the bones of Saul and the bones of Jonathan his son from there, and they gathered the bones of those who had been [fn]hanged. 14 They buried the bones of Saul and Jonathan his son in the country of Benjamin in Zela, in the grave of Kish his father; thus they did all that the king commanded, and after that God was moved by prayer for the land. [NASB]​

This first one is one of the more difficult texts, because Saul is one of the more complex relationships in the Bible. The KJV words it "Saul, whom the LORD did choose" which says the same thing. I would call your attention to WHO is making this claim (and who is not making this claim). God is not claiming Saul as His chosen, but these non-Israelites are claiming Saul was chosen by God. I am always careful not to put words in God's mouth that God did not say.

So why was Saul made king? It was not God's wish or Samuel's choice. God gave the stubborn people what they wanted as a punishment. The expression "give 'em enough rope to hang themselves" comes to mind. However, even in punishing the people with a king, God withheld no blessing from King Saul at the start of his reign. So God was gracious enough to even bless the PEOPLE'S CHOICE! However nobody ever claimed that God is under any obligation to save OUR chosen. I am a believer that God saves HIS chosen. Saul was not God's chosen, David was.

Since God did not choose Saul, 2 Samuel 21 does not prove that God "chooses for a purpose but not for salvation".

Flip question always get is how sinners resist God work for salvation, but all of Hi sown shall indeed get saved!

 

[Yeshua1]

prove it with scripture please?.
MB

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: And all those who are sons and daughters of God have the blessed hope of seeing Jesus and being like Him when he shall appear to take his children to a new heavenly home. 1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 

[JonShaff]

Election is not salvific--it's for purpose. God chose Abraham to bring Himself a Family. God chose Christ to bring this covenant into reality. Christ is the primo Elect One. We become part of the elect through Faith in Christ. Abraham is the father of Faith and we become "sons of the household" when we Trust in Christ, receiving the promises and blessings given to Abraham and His family. There can be much to write concerning this. But this is the Gist. Christ is the Elect One from eternity past to bring into being a Kingdom and Family and People that will worship and adore the King forever. Abraham is the family in time and space that brings about an inheritance of God's blessings and promises.

 

[Dave G]

Election is not salvific--it's for purpose.

I'm sorry sir, I disagree.
To me, election is to salvation ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Ephesians 1:4-5, Romans 8:28-30 ), but I do agree that it is for a purpose.

Abraham is the father of Faith and we become "sons of the household" when we Trust in Christ, receiving the promises and blessings given to Abraham and His family.

I'm reminded of this passage when I read your quote above:

" Now I say, [That] the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2 but is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
4 but when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ." ( Galatians 4:1-7 ).

Jon,
The above tells me the following:

1) The example is given that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ with a servant of the household though the heir is ( and will be ) lord of all in that household.
2) The heir is also under tutors and governors ( teachers and overseers ) until the time that their father's appointment becomes a reality and they assume their role.
3) Believers, when they were children ( did you catch that? Believers in Christ are yet children even before they are made aware of their salvation, that is how I read it ), were in bondage ( servitude ) under the elements of the world.
4) When the fulness of time was come, God sent His son ( made of a woman, made under the Law of Moses )…
5) To redeem them ( the elect ) that were under the Law...so that we ( those that would believe, His elect ) might receive the adoption of sons.
6) And because we ( the whosoever believeth, from the heart ) are sons ( not "will be" ), God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba, Father".
7) We, as God's elect are no more servants, but sons. If we are sons, then we are also heirs of God through Christ.

In other words, I don't see this passage describing what I've underlined in your quote above ( a "will be" with respect to becoming an heir ) or becoming ( to go from being one to the other ) sons of the household;
But we "already are" when it comes to being part of God's household, even before we have believed.

What do you see when you read this passage, if I may ask?

 

[George Antonios]

People keep telling me that God chooses people for a purpose, but that does not mean that they are saved and offer the Jews that reject Jesus as an example of God's "chosen people" who are not saved. To the core of my being that feels like "HORSE-FEATHERS"! So let's start with the OT and take a close look at the verses on God's chosen:

The word is Strong's H972: בָּחִיר bâchîyr, baw-kheer'; from H977; select:—choose, chosen one, elect.

Here are all of the Old Testament verses that contain that word:

• [2Sa 21:6 NASB] 6 let seven men from his sons be given to us, and we will hang them before the LORD in Gibeah of Saul, the chosen[H972] of the LORD." And the king said, "I will give [them.]"
• [1Ch 16:13 NASB] 13 O seed of Israel His servant, Sons of Jacob, His chosen[H972] ones![H972]
• [Psa 89:3 NASB] 3 "I have made a covenant with My chosen;[H972] I have sworn to David My servant,
• [Psa 105:6 NASB] 6 O seed of Abraham, His servant, O sons of Jacob, His chosen[H972] ones![H972]
  
• [Psa 105:43 NASB]43 And He brought forth His people with joy, His chosen[H972] ones[H972] with a joyful shout.
• [Psa 106:5NASB] 5 That I may see the prosperity of Your chosen[H972] ones,[H972] That I may rejoice in the gladness of Your nation, That I may glory with Your inheritance.
  
• [Psa 106:23 NASB] 23 Therefore He said that He would destroy them, Had not Moses His chosen[H972] one stood in the breach before Him, To turn away His wrath from destroying [them.]
• [Isa 42:1 NASB] 1 "Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My chosen[H972] one [in whom] My soul delights. I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the nations.
• [Isa 43:20 NASB] 20 "The beasts of the field will glorify Me, The jackals and the ostriches, Because I have given waters in the wilderness And rivers in the desert, To give drink to My chosen[H972] people.
• [Isa 45:4 NASB] 4 "For the sake of Jacob My servant, And Israel My chosen[H972] [one,] I have also called you by your name; I have given you a title of honor Though you have not known Me.
• [Isa 65:9 NASB] 9 "I will bring forth offspring from Jacob, And an heir of My mountains from Judah; Even My chosen[H972] ones[H972] shall inherit it, And My servants will dwell there.
  
• [Isa 65:15 NASB] 15 "You will leave your name for a curse to My chosen[H972] ones,[H972] And the Lord GOD will slay you. But My servants will be called by another name.
  
• [Isa 65:22 NASB] 22 "They will not build and another inhabit, They will not plant and another eat; For as the lifetime of a tree, [so will be] the days of My people, And My chosen[H972] ones[H972] will wear out the work of their hands.

Starting with [2 Samuel 21]

1 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David sought the presence of the LORD. And the LORD said, “It is for Saul and his bloody house, because he put the Gibeonites to death.” 2 So the king called the Gibeonites and spoke to them (now the Gibeonites were not of the sons of Israel but of the remnant of the Amorites, and the sons of Israel [fn]made a covenant with them, but Saul had sought to [fn]kill them in his zeal for the sons of Israel and Judah). 3 Thus David said to the Gibeonites, “What should I do for you? And how can I make atonement that you may bless the inheritance of the LORD?” 4 Then the Gibeonites said to him, “We have no concern of silver or gold with Saul or his house, nor is it for us to put any man to death in Israel.” And he said, “I will do for you whatever you say.” 5 So they said to the king, “The man who consumed us and who planned [fn]to exterminate us from remaining within any border of Israel, 6 let seven men from his sons be given to us, and we will [fn]hang them before the LORD in Gibeah of Saul, the chosen of the LORD.” And the king said, “I will give them.”

7 But the king spared Mephibosheth, the son of Jonathan the son of Saul, because of the oath of the LORD which was between them, between David and Saul’s son Jonathan. 8 So the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, Armoni and Mephibosheth whom she had borne to Saul, and the five sons of [fn]Merab the daughter of Saul, whom she had borne to Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite. 9 Then he gave them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they [fn]hanged them in the mountain before the LORD, so that the seven of them fell together; and they were put to death in the first days of harvest at the beginning of barley harvest.

10 And Rizpah the daughter of Aiah took sackcloth and spread it for herself on the rock, from the beginning of harvest until [fn]it rained on them from the sky; and she [fn]allowed neither the birds of the sky to rest on them by day nor the beasts of the field by night. 11 When it was told David what Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, the concubine of Saul, had done, 12 then David went and took the bones of Saul and the bones of Jonathan his son from the men of Jabesh-gilead, who had stolen them from the open square of Beth-shan, where the Philistines had hanged them on the day the Philistines struck down Saul in Gilboa. 13 He brought up the bones of Saul and the bones of Jonathan his son from there, and they gathered the bones of those who had been [fn]hanged. 14 They buried the bones of Saul and Jonathan his son in the country of Benjamin in Zela, in the grave of Kish his father; thus they did all that the king commanded, and after that God was moved by prayer for the land. [NASB]​

This first one is one of the more difficult texts, because Saul is one of the more complex relationships in the Bible. The KJV words it "Saul, whom the LORD did choose" which says the same thing. I would call your attention to WHO is making this claim (and who is not making this claim). God is not claiming Saul as His chosen, but these non-Israelites are claiming Saul was chosen by God. I am always careful not to put words in God's mouth that God did not say.

So why was Saul made king? It was not God's wish or Samuel's choice. God gave the stubborn people what they wanted as a punishment. The expression "give 'em enough rope to hang themselves" comes to mind. However, even in punishing the people with a king, God withheld no blessing from King Saul at the start of his reign. So God was gracious enough to even bless the PEOPLE'S CHOICE! However nobody ever claimed that God is under any obligation to save OUR chosen. I am a believer that God saves HIS chosen. Saul was not God's chosen, David was.

Since God did not choose Saul, 2 Samuel 21 does not prove that God "chooses for a purpose but not for salvation".

This whole thing is a moot-point since Saul was God's chosen unto rule, not salvation.

 

[Van]

Pardon the interruption of the fray.

Let us note three things about being chosen.

1) We are always chosen for a purpose, and if the purpose is salvation, that is the result.
2) Were we chosen corporately, as a group, say those to be redeemed through faith, or individually for salvation, those placed into Christ and thus saved forever.
3) When an individual is chosen for salvation, then they become part of the corporate group, as they are redeemed, that was chosen before creation.

Really simple when you think about it...

Carry on...

 

[AustinC]

We are already adopted as children of God!

Barry ignores all other verses about our adoption and isolates only Romans 8:23 with no concern for context or scripture interpreting scripture.
He's singularly focused on his false doctrine.

 

[atpollard]

This whole thing is a moot-point since Saul was God's chosen unto rule, not salvation.

For what "non-salvific" purpose are these "the elect" and "His (God's) elect"?

• [Mat 24:22, 24, 31 NASB]
  
• 22 "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect[G1588] those days will be cut short. ...
  
• 24 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.[G1588] ...
  
• 31 "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect[G1588] from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

 

[atpollard]

Let us note three things about being chosen.

1) We are always chosen for a purpose, and if the purpose is salvation, that is the result.
2) Were we chosen corporately, as a group, say those to be redeemed through faith, or individually for salvation, those placed into Christ and thus saved forever.
3) When an individual is chosen for salvation, then they become part of the corporate group, as they are redeemed, that was chosen before creation.

Really simple when you think about it...

Thank you for sharing your opinion.
Is there Scripture that states "We are always chosen for a purpose"?
Is there Scripture that states "we [are] chosen corporately, as a group"?
Is there Scripture that states "When an individual is chosen for salvation, then they become part of the corporate group"?

 

[Barry Johnson]

We are already adopted as children of God!

Not according to Eph 1.5 and Rom 8.23 .
We become a child of God through the new birth John 1.12 , not Adoption . We recieve the Spirit Of it but THE adoption is the redemption of the body .

 

[Van]

Thank you for sharing your opinion.
Is there Scripture that states "We are always chosen for a purpose"?
Is there Scripture that states "we [are] chosen corporately, as a group"?
Is there Scripture that states "When an individual is chosen for salvation, then they become part of the corporate group"?

To bad I cannot thank you for presenting your opinion as to the answers of your questions.

Many verses include the purpose for the choice, such as 2 Thessalonians 2:13 which indicates the Thessalonians were chosen for salvation. OTOH, no verse that I know of indicates a choice for no purpose. None, zip, nada.
Corporate election is found throughout scripture, according to Dr. Dan Wallace. "Thus, election is seen to be initiated by God and effected by God. Those who are chosen—whether individuals or groups—become what they are chosen for."
For example, say God chose His "Redeemer" before the foundation of the world, and thus God chose in choosing Him, those who would be redeemed corporately. However, when an individual is indeed redeemed, they become part of the group chosen corporately before creation.

Really simple

 

[Derf B]

Here is the word that I am chasing down:

• [Mat 22:14 NASB] 14 "For many are called, but few [are] chosen."[G1588]
• [Mat 24:22, 24, 31 NASB] 22 "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect[G1588] those days will be cut short. ... 24 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.[G1588] ... 31 "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect[G1588] from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
• [Mar 13:20, 22, 27 NASB] 20 "Unless the Lord had shortened [those] days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect,[G1588] whom He chose, He shortened the days. ... 22 for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect.[G1588] ... 27 "And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect[G1588] from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.
• [Luk 18:7 NASB] 7 now, will not God bring about justice for His elect[G1588] who cry to Him day and night, and will He delay long over them?
• [Luk 23:35 NASB] 35 And the people stood by, looking on. And even the rulers were sneering at Him, saying, "He saved others; let Him save Himself if this is the Christ of God, His Chosen[G1588] One."[G1588]
• [Rom 8:33 NASB] 33 Who will bring a charge against God's elect?[G1588] God is the one who justifies;
• [Rom 16:13 NASB] 13 Greet Rufus, a choice[G1588] man[G1588] in the Lord, also his mother and mine.
• [Col 3:12 NASB] 12 So, as those who have been chosen[G1588] of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience;
• [1Ti 5:21 NASB] 21 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of [His] chosen[G1588] angels, to maintain these [principles] without bias, doing nothing in a [spirit of] partiality.
• [2Ti 2:10 NASB] 10 For this reason I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen,[G1588] so that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus [and] with [it] eternal glory.
• [Tit 1:1 NASB] 1 Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen[G1588] of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness,
• [1Pe 1:1 NASB] 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen[G1588]
• [1Pe 2:4, 6, 9 NASB] 4 And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice[G1588] and precious in the sight of God, ... 6 For [this] is contained in Scripture: "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE[G1588] STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER [stone,] AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." ... 9 But you are A CHOSEN[G1588] RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR [God's] OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
• [2Jo 1:1, 13 NASB] 1 The elder to the chosen[G1588] lady and her children, whom I love in truth; and not only I, but also all who know the truth, ... 13 The children of your chosen[G1588] sister greet you.
• [Rev 17:14 NASB] 14 "These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him [are the] called and chosen[G1588] and faithful."

I want to know who "the elect", "the chosen", "His elect", "His chosen", God's elect" and "God's chosen" (depending on your translation) are! Some say they are "saved and unsaved selected for a purpose", but that is not what I see when I look at the "ἐκλεκτός" [G1588] in scripture. I was told that the Jews are the "chosen/elect" and we gentiles are reading ourselves into scripture that is not about us. So I began my search in the OT with God's "chosen" (H972) as equivalent to God's "elect" (G1588).

Can you honestly say any of these verses using (G1588) in the LXX are talking about the subject and people that I am looking to understand?

• [Gen 23:6 KJV] 6 Hear us, my lord: thou [art] a mighty prince among us: in the choice of our sepulchres bury thy dead; none of us shall withhold from thee his sepulchre, but that thou mayest bury thy dead.
• [Gen 41:2 KJV] 2 And, behold, there came up out of the river seven well favoured kine and fat fleshed; and they fed in a meadow.
• [Gen 41:4 KJV] 4 And the ill favoured and lean fleshed kine did eat up the seven well favoured and fat kine. So Pharaoh awoke.
• [Gen 41:5 KJV] 5 And he slept and dreamed the second time: and, behold, seven ears of corn came up upon one stalk, rank and good.

"Make sure you’re not putting your own meaning into the words."
I think I have.

I guess I don’t see why those verses in Genesis aren’t helpful to you. They give uses of the word that inform you about the word itself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Barry Johnson]

I'm sorry sir, I disagree.
To me, election is to salvation ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Ephesians 1:4-5, Romans 8:28-30 ), but I do agree that it is for a purpose.

I'm reminded of this passage when I read your quote above:

" Now I say, [That] the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2 but is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
4 but when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ." ( Galatians 4:1-7 ).

Jon,
The above tells me the following:

1) The example is given that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ with a servant of the household though the heir is ( and will be ) lord of all in that household.
2) The heir is also under tutors and governors ( teachers and overseers ) until the time that their father's appointment becomes a reality and they assume their role.
3) Believers, when they were children ( did you catch that? Believers in Christ are yet children even before they are made aware of their salvation, that is how I read it ), were in bondage ( servitude ) under the elements of the world.
4) When the fulness of time was come, God sent His son ( made of a woman, made under the Law of Moses )…
5) To redeem them ( the elect ) that were under the Law...so that we ( those that would believe, His elect ) might receive the adoption of sons.
6) And because we ( the whosoever believeth, from the heart ) are sons ( not "will be" ), God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba, Father".
7) We, as God's elect are no more servants, but sons. If we are sons, then we are also heirs of God through Christ.

In other words, I don't see this passage describing what I've underlined in your quote above ( a "will be" with respect to becoming an heir ) or becoming ( to go from being one to the other ) sons of the household;
But we "already are" when it comes to being part of God's household, even before we have believed.

What do you see when you read this passage, if I may ask?

Might recieve ( future )

 

[Barry Johnson]

Barry ignores all other verses about our adoption and isolates only Romans 8:23 with no concern for context or scripture interpreting scripture.
He's singularly focused on his false doctrine.

I interpret the clear first. There is no clearer verse on what the adoption is than Rom 8.23 . It actually says what the Adoption is . Only someone ideologically possessed would miss it .I believe a system is forcing the clear reading of Rom 8 .23 to not be taken as read . " it cant be yet future, because I have doctrines that this messes with if I take it as read . So no , I think we need to get all the other verse put them together with some other presuppositions we have and re interpret Rom 8 . 23 in light of that , thus showing our doctrines are great philosophical reasons why the bible isn't true" .

 

[Sai]

People keep telling me that God chooses people for a purpose, but that does not mean that they are saved and offer the Jews that reject Jesus as an example of God's "chosen people" who are not saved. To the core of my being that feels like "HORSE-FEATHERS"! So let's start with the OT and take a close look at the verses on God's chosen:

The word is Strong's H972: בָּחִיר bâchîyr, baw-kheer'; from H977; select:—choose, chosen one, elect.

Here are all of the Old Testament verses that contain that word:

• [2Sa 21:6 NASB] 6 let seven men from his sons be given to us, and we will hang them before the LORD in Gibeah of Saul, the chosen[H972] of the LORD." And the king said, "I will give [them.]"
• [1Ch 16:13 NASB] 13 O seed of Israel His servant, Sons of Jacob, His chosen[H972] ones![H972]
• [Psa 89:3 NASB] 3 "I have made a covenant with My chosen;[H972] I have sworn to David My servant,
• [Psa 105:6 NASB] 6 O seed of Abraham, His servant, O sons of Jacob, His chosen[H972] ones![H972]
  
• [Psa 105:43 NASB]43 And He brought forth His people with joy, His chosen[H972] ones[H972] with a joyful shout.
• [Psa 106:5NASB] 5 That I may see the prosperity of Your chosen[H972] ones,[H972] That I may rejoice in the gladness of Your nation, That I may glory with Your inheritance.
  
• [Psa 106:23 NASB] 23 Therefore He said that He would destroy them, Had not Moses His chosen[H972] one stood in the breach before Him, To turn away His wrath from destroying [them.]
• [Isa 42:1 NASB] 1 "Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My chosen[H972] one [in whom] My soul delights. I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the nations.
• [Isa 43:20 NASB] 20 "The beasts of the field will glorify Me, The jackals and the ostriches, Because I have given waters in the wilderness And rivers in the desert, To give drink to My chosen[H972] people.
• [Isa 45:4 NASB] 4 "For the sake of Jacob My servant, And Israel My chosen[H972] [one,] I have also called you by your name; I have given you a title of honor Though you have not known Me.
• [Isa 65:9 NASB] 9 "I will bring forth offspring from Jacob, And an heir of My mountains from Judah; Even My chosen[H972] ones[H972] shall inherit it, And My servants will dwell there.
  
• [Isa 65:15 NASB] 15 "You will leave your name for a curse to My chosen[H972] ones,[H972] And the Lord GOD will slay you. But My servants will be called by another name.
  
• [Isa 65:22 NASB] 22 "They will not build and another inhabit, They will not plant and another eat; For as the lifetime of a tree, [so will be] the days of My people, And My chosen[H972] ones[H972] will wear out the work of their hands.

Starting with [2 Samuel 21]

1 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David sought the presence of the LORD. And the LORD said, “It is for Saul and his bloody house, because he put the Gibeonites to death.” 2 So the king called the Gibeonites and spoke to them (now the Gibeonites were not of the sons of Israel but of the remnant of the Amorites, and the sons of Israel [fn]made a covenant with them, but Saul had sought to [fn]kill them in his zeal for the sons of Israel and Judah). 3 Thus David said to the Gibeonites, “What should I do for you? And how can I make atonement that you may bless the inheritance of the LORD?” 4 Then the Gibeonites said to him, “We have no concern of silver or gold with Saul or his house, nor is it for us to put any man to death in Israel.” And he said, “I will do for you whatever you say.” 5 So they said to the king, “The man who consumed us and who planned [fn]to exterminate us from remaining within any border of Israel, 6 let seven men from his sons be given to us, and we will [fn]hang them before the LORD in Gibeah of Saul, the chosen of the LORD.” And the king said, “I will give them.”

7 But the king spared Mephibosheth, the son of Jonathan the son of Saul, because of the oath of the LORD which was between them, between David and Saul’s son Jonathan. 8 So the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, Armoni and Mephibosheth whom she had borne to Saul, and the five sons of [fn]Merab the daughter of Saul, whom she had borne to Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite. 9 Then he gave them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they [fn]hanged them in the mountain before the LORD, so that the seven of them fell together; and they were put to death in the first days of harvest at the beginning of barley harvest.

10 And Rizpah the daughter of Aiah took sackcloth and spread it for herself on the rock, from the beginning of harvest until [fn]it rained on them from the sky; and she [fn]allowed neither the birds of the sky to rest on them by day nor the beasts of the field by night. 11 When it was told David what Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, the concubine of Saul, had done, 12 then David went and took the bones of Saul and the bones of Jonathan his son from the men of Jabesh-gilead, who had stolen them from the open square of Beth-shan, where the Philistines had hanged them on the day the Philistines struck down Saul in Gilboa. 13 He brought up the bones of Saul and the bones of Jonathan his son from there, and they gathered the bones of those who had been [fn]hanged. 14 They buried the bones of Saul and Jonathan his son in the country of Benjamin in Zela, in the grave of Kish his father; thus they did all that the king commanded, and after that God was moved by prayer for the land. [NASB]​

This first one is one of the more difficult texts, because Saul is one of the more complex relationships in the Bible. The KJV words it "Saul, whom the LORD did choose" which says the same thing. I would call your attention to WHO is making this claim (and who is not making this claim). God is not claiming Saul as His chosen, but these non-Israelites are claiming Saul was chosen by God. I am always careful not to put words in God's mouth that God did not say.

So why was Saul made king? It was not God's wish or Samuel's choice. God gave the stubborn people what they wanted as a punishment. The expression "give 'em enough rope to hang themselves" comes to mind. However, even in punishing the people with a king, God withheld no blessing from King Saul at the start of his reign. So God was gracious enough to even bless the PEOPLE'S CHOICE! However nobody ever claimed that God is under any obligation to save OUR chosen. I am a believer that God saves HIS chosen. Saul was not God's chosen, David was.

Since God did not choose Saul, 2 Samuel 21 does not prove that God "chooses for a purpose but not for salvation".

The Bible is clear we were elected by God before the foundation of creation to be in Christ. I don’t see any problem with that.

The problem is Calmenianism because it does not answer the arguments from both sides satisfactorily.

The problem is limiting the atonement to only part of humanity. Was the imputation of Adam’s sin limited to only part of humanity? No it includes infants as well as fetuses.

I have to take the Bible at face value and cannot insert human reasoning to make it understandable for my created mind.

The same problem is found for example with the triunity of the Godhead. No one can fully comprehend how it is that God is a trinity and give a definition of what and how this is true but I have to again accept what is written.


Joy unspeakable full of glory

 

[Barry Johnson]

The Bible is clear we were elected by God before the foundation of creation to be in Christ. I don’t see any problem with that.

The problem is Calmenianism because it does not answer the arguments from both sides satisfactorily.

The problem is limiting the atonement to only part of humanity. Was the imputation of Adam’s sin limited to only part of humanity? No it includes infants as well as fetuses.

I have to take the Bible at face value and cannot insert human reasoning to make it understandable for my created mind.

The same problem is found for example with the triunity of the Godhead. No one can fully comprehend how it is that God is a trinity and give a definition of what and how this is true but I have to again accept what is written.


Joy unspeakable full of glory

One of the problems with being chosen to be saved is that you don't have a verse that says your predestinated to glorification.

 

[MB]

I interpret the clear first. There is no clearer verse on what the adoption is than Rom 8.23 . It actually says what the Adoption is . Only someone ideologically possessed would miss it .I believe a system is forcing the clear reading of Rom 8 .23 to not be taken as read . " it cant be yet future, because I have doctrines that this messes with if I take it as read . So no , I think we need to get all the other verse put them together with some other presuppositions we have and re interpret Rom 8 . 23 in light of that , thus showing our doctrines are great philosophical reasons why the bible isn't true" .

All scripture is to be taken as read you don't do this and is why you do not understand scripture.
MB