God's love question

[Darrell C]

Originally Posted by Darrell C View Post
As a matter of fact there is currently, to our knowledge...no-one in Hell right now.

The residents of Hell most vociferously dispute your incredibly false statement.

Do you think those who have not gone to Heaven are in Purgatory, Limbo --or are you an annihilationalist?

Great vocabulary.

Scripture?


God bless.

 

[Iconoclast]

Now we move to post 17...you say-


Darrell C

I see. Sorry, thought it was a question you sincerely wanted answered.

I am not sure why I thought that.

She did want it answered. She explained that to you three times and the last time told you that your responses DID NOT answer the question she wanted answered......you think you did, but you were wrong.

You then say;

On the contrary, those who hold to limited atonement cannot properly answer the question, except for those who do not want to acknowledge that God did in fact so love the world, not the Elect, but the world, that He sent His Son to die in their stead.

When I read this post I as one holding to limited atonement, Definite Atonement, Particular Redemption figured to answer it as it was clearly misguided.

Why was it misguided? You say those who hold to limited atonement cannot answer the question....you were wrong on that. In fact we can give the biblical answer ...you do not like it, you think it is wrong...but we can answer it quite thoroughly.

I understand now, lol.

I am pretty sure you do not understand yet...that's why this thread will help you.:thumbs:

If you say so. I thought it was a pretty answer though I might take issue with...

? I just kept it here so you do not complain that I removed your "words"

By the way DC...your words are not inspired and I agree with Rippon who suggested you were long winded and really just repeat yourself.

...as it is clear that God loved the world as a whole, sent the Comforter to the world as a whole, died for the world as a whole...and all this before men were saved.

Now you offer your ideas....completely ignoring the BIBLCIAL FACT that God is a Covenant keeping God and has an eternal plan and purpose that He has revealed to the church.Eph 3:9-11...
perhaps you could share your thoughts on this? you have posted 2000 + times , you can show your best post on God's covenant or Covenants of promise . Who are they made with?

In discussing the Covenant of redemption...the idea of God's loyal love, His mercy is prominent.......do you have some thoughts on this as the topic of the OP is the saving love of God.....

Your last sentence speaks of before men were saved....could you take a minute to address what was in place before men were saved?

That love extends to prior to salvation in individuals and to suggest that God's love favors any particular person on a salvific level suggests respect of persons, which does not have a consistency with what Scripture tells us about God.

This is another false charge as no Cal believes that God is a respecter of persons

There is no debate.

There is a debate when you resist truth and suggest error.

We are saved because of God's love.

Not because we are Elect, but because we are loved.

It is not an either or...but both and.....Election is crucial as Salvation is all of God.

1 John 4:19

King James Version (KJV)

19 We love him, because he first loved us.

This is a great verse...but it does not support your position at all. John writes this to believers.

But I can understand not wanting to be interrupted by an opposing view, so I will bow out.

She wanted her question answered...you did not do it...

next case-

 

[convicted1]

As a matter of fact there is currently, to our knowledge...no-one in Hell right now.

Scripture please....

So the question can be answered very easily with "No God does not love those in Hell right now."

Scripture please...

The fact is that Scripture is clear that God does not chasten those who are not His, but brings upon them His wrath, both in a temporal sense as well as an Eschatological sense.

God loves His sheep, period. Why? Because they belong to Jesus. Even as 'sheep having gone astray', He still loved them...

Now your turn, and I will just offer one passage:


1 Timothy 2:3-5

King James Version (KJV)

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


Does this, or does this not mean what it says?


God bless.

Hmmph, didn't know you were a universalist....

If God is willing that all men, even those who lived in the Fiji Islands, Hawaii, Alaska, American Samoa, centuries ago will be saved without ever knowing Jesus even existed. All refers to all of a particular good. 'All men' in that passage is referring to His sheep....

 

[Rippon]

DC: regarding that passage in 1 Timothy --it is with reference to
people of every rank and station --tribe, tongue and nation. All
classes of people are in view.

All people without distinction, but not without exception --otherwise you would end up being a Universalist.

 

[Iconoclast]

Completely irrelevant.



Could you please quote whatever it is that you derived this conclusion from, lol.




Relevance?

We are not discussing the Security of the Believer.




Again...there is no debate.


Romans 10:17-19

King James Version (KJV)

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.




Then fill in the blank:

For God so ________ the ___________ that He sent His only begotten Son...




That is a conclusion one can only draw when their soteriology excludes important portions of Scripture. No man is saved until he is regenerated, and no man or woman is born into this world regenerated.

The Atonement is a freely offered gift, which is readily available to every man or woman who is obedient to the will of God, which is that they come under obedience, which has as it's goal their salvation.


Colossians 1:4-6

King James Version (KJV)

4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,

5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:


God does not restrain His love from anyone, though He will, I believe, withdraw the opportunity of salvation when they reject the truth given them. This is true in Old Testament Economies, and even more true now that the Gospel of Christ is the revelation God is providing men through the Ministry of the Comforter.

That men can be brought to an understanding of the Gospel through this ministry and reject it without being regenerated seems all to clear in this passage...


Hebrews 10:26-29

King James Version (KJV)

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


...where we see the ministry of the Holy Spirit "done despite unto," and that ministry is to glorify Christ, who is also despised.

This is not a Calvinist issue, this is not an Arminian issue...

...it is a Basic Biblical Principle.

 

[Darrell C]

Originally Posted by Darrell C View Post
As a matter of fact there is currently, to our knowledge...no-one in Hell right now.

Scripture please....

How about we start here, where Hell receives her first inhabitants we are told of:

Revelation 19:20

King James Version (KJV)

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Or here, where those now abiding in Hades are cast into Hell:


Revelation 20:14

King James Version (KJV)

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

How about we learn what Hell was created for:


Matthew 25:41

King James Version (KJV)

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:


Or here, where we learn that not even all demons are in Hell at this time:


Matthew 8:29

King James Version (KJV)

29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?


Of course, I would suggest that you study the Greek concerning the Eternal Punishment of the wicked, but it seems you have not bothered even to consult the English, so why bother?

Now, will you answer my question, seeing I have now twice answered yours?

Quote:
So the question can be answered very easily with "No God does not love those in Hell right now."

Scripture please...[/QUOTE]

How can God love somebody somewhere they are not, lol.

Honestly, some people's kids.

Quote:
The fact is that Scripture is clear that God does not chasten those who are not His, but brings upon them His wrath, both in a temporal sense as well as an Eschatological sense.

God loves His sheep, period. Why? Because they belong to Jesus. Even as 'sheep having gone astray', He still loved them...

Kind of skipping over the fact that your ignorance has been displayed in the public record, aren't you?

This is about as Theologically astute as you and the rest of your pseudo-Calvinist friends reiteration that the "Only the saved are saved!"

And just like your buddies...you are irrelevant to the OP. You refuse to address any Scripture, points, or questions posed to you.

How does that make you feel my little cheerleader friend, who apparently spends more time perusing you-tube than he does in study of God's Word.

Quote:
Now your turn, and I will just offer one passage:


1 Timothy 2:3-5

King James Version (KJV)

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


Does this, or does this not mean what it says?


God bless.

Hmmph, didn't know you were a universalist....

Anyone who has seen even a smattering of my posting would not try to evade with such a moronic response.

Answer the question: is Scripture in error here? Is Paul in error?

Did he misspeak in saying that it is the will of God that all men be saved?

He doesn't say "Everyone is going to be saved, but that it is God's will that all are.

Kind of like another verse you guys wrest the meaning of to your own twisted and perverse meaning:


2 Peter 3:9

King James Version (KJV)

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


In your minds...God is willing that some, and according to the commentary of one fellow...that he is willing that many perish.

If God is willing that all men, even those who lived in the Fiji Islands, Hawaii, Alaska, American Samoa, centuries ago will be saved without ever knowing Jesus even existed. All refers to all of a particular good. 'All men' in that passage is referring to His sheep....

You need to begin in Chapter One of Romans, then go to Chapter Two. Then reread. Or, watch it again on you-tube, whatever floats your boat.

I have already addressed this once in this thread, but here it is again:


Romans 1:18-22

King James Version (KJV)

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,


Remind you of anyone?


Then in Chapter Two:


Romans 2:14-15

King James Version (KJV)

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)


What that means is that prior to the revelation of the Mystery of the Gospel the same manifestation of the Love of God was given unto all men in the revelation of God they had at that time, where we see Gentiles in obedience to God and the revelation they had, which was an internal revelation as well as that provided in Creation.

So among those even those who lived in the Fiji Islands, Hawaii, Alaska, American Samoa, centuries ago, there would have been the same provision that we have today, the revelation of God. It was not the revelation of the Mystery of the Gospel, because that was not revealed in those days, as it was the Hidden Wisdom of God preached by the Apostles.

Now surprise me. Address the post, and try to do it without another smokescreen.

God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Completely irrelevant.



Could you please quote whatever it is that you derived this conclusion from, lol.




Relevance?

We are not discussing the Security of the Believer.




Again...there is no debate.


Romans 10:17-19

King James Version (KJV)

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.




Then fill in the blank:

For God so ________ the ___________ that He sent His only begotten Son...




That is a conclusion one can only draw when their soteriology excludes important portions of Scripture. No man is saved until he is regenerated, and no man or woman is born into this world regenerated.

The Atonement is a freely offered gift, which is readily available to every man or woman who is obedient to the will of God, which is that they come under obedience, which has as it's goal their salvation.


Colossians 1:4-6

King James Version (KJV)

4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,

5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:


God does not restrain His love from anyone, though He will, I believe, withdraw the opportunity of salvation when they reject the truth given them. This is true in Old Testament Economies, and even more true now that the Gospel of Christ is the revelation God is providing men through the Ministry of the Comforter.

That men can be brought to an understanding of the Gospel through this ministry and reject it without being regenerated seems all to clear in this passage...


Hebrews 10:26-29

King James Version (KJV)

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


...where we see the ministry of the Holy Spirit "done despite unto," and that ministry is to glorify Christ, who is also despised.

This is not a Calvinist issue, this is not an Arminian issue...

...it is a Basic Biblical Principle.

Finally, you do a good post.

Oh...never mind.


God bless.

 

[Iconoclast]

also in post 24 you offer more good verses;

Hebrews 10:26-29

King James Version (KJV)

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


...where we see the ministry of the Holy Spirit "done despite unto," and that ministry is to glorify Christ, who is also despised.

these verses were warning first century jews not to apostatize going back into jewish worship which was legal and seeking to avoid persecution.....it does not help your case....I did not comment because it really was off topic...the apostates saw real Christians worshipping and were being warned to fall away was unto perdition....why did I need to comment on this...I really enjoy Hebrews , but this does not help your cause....

This is not a Calvinist issue, this is not an Arminian issue...

No..it was a warning against apostasy.

 

[convicted1]

Snide remarks are quite becoming...they're gonna be the fall trend...you're ahead of the curve...


Chic....

 

[convicted1]

The lake of fire and he'll are two entirely different places...

I answered your post, just just hate the answer...

 

[Darrell C]

The lake of fire and he'll are two entirely different places...

I answered your post, just just hate the answer...

Anybody else want to field this? lol

Go back to your youtube, cheerleader. You have nothing to contribute.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

DC: regarding that passage in 1 Timothy --it is with reference to
people of every rank and station --tribe, tongue and nation. All
classes of people are in view.

All people without distinction, but not without exception --otherwise you would end up being a Universalist.

Rippon, still waiting to see your response about that vociferous host in Hell.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

DC: regarding that passage in 1 Timothy --it is with reference to
people of every rank and station --tribe, tongue and nation. All
classes of people are in view.

All people without distinction, but not without exception --otherwise you would end up being a Universalist.

And by the way, I will say thanks for being the first one to actually address a passage from Scripture.

Still got it wrong, because it is quite clear that in what it states. All men means all men, except to you. Not sure what it means for the others, they have not bothered to answer it.

1 Timothy 2:3-5

King James Version (KJV)

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


Okay, the Lord erred in saying this, can you also say that of this one...


1 Timothy 4:9-11

King James Version (KJV)

9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.

10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

11 These things command and teach.


So who exactly are those not distinguished by "Specially?"

Your doctrine is exposed as false.

Start trusting in the Savior Paul taught, not the one Calvin taught.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Snide remarks are quite becoming...they're gonna be the fall trend...you're ahead of the curve...


Chic....

Only slightly more fashionable than green sweaters, but I guess you would know...

God bless.

 

[convicted1]

Anybody else want to field this? lol

Go back to your youtube, cheerleader. You have nothing to contribute.


God bless.

That's a rather disingenuous 'God bless' that you post at the end of every one of your postings.


I bet you feel really good playing on the 'World Wide Web' and having your mommy bring you milk and cookies in her basement...

 

[convicted1]

Only slightly more fashionable than green sweaters, but I guess you would know...

God bless.

You're the proverbial 'lost as a ball in the weeds'...painted green to boot...

 

[Darrell C]

That's a rather disingenuous 'God bless' that you post at the end of every one of your postings.


I bet you feel really good playing on the 'World Wide Web' and having your mommy bring you milk and cookies in her basement...

It's genuine. Just because I pray God's blessings in each post and antagonist doesn't mean I have to be mealy-mouthed in responding to cheerleaders.

Care to address the posts about Hell?

Care to address the question of the OP?


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

You're the proverbial 'lost as a ball in the weeds'...painted green to boot...

At least I have a little more to offer than you-tube.




God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

You're the proverbial 'lost as a ball in the weeds'...painted green to boot...

One verse, if you can free up your hands from your pom-poms long enough to type a response:


1 Timothy 4:9-11

King James Version (KJV)

9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.

10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

11 These things command and teach.


Since you have claimed to know "good exegesis," lol, perhaps you wouldn't mind exegeting Paul's exposition of Christ.

It's okay, no-one will mess with your baton while you answer...


God bless.

 

[convicted1]

I am telling you this in love...


You need to be saved. You're parading around here as some great man of God, but are nothing more than a wolf in sheep's clothing. You're doing your master, Satan a wonderful service. Please begin seeking out God before it's too late.


I can't care less about my standing on here. My care is about lost souls, of which you're one of them. Faithful are the wounds of a friend.


See everybody later...


Bannedville here I come...