God's love question

[Darrell C]

Darrell C;



long suffering to usward is the elect.....God is not willing that any of them perish....he will save everyone peter is speaking of because he has decreed , and purposed to do so...


peters commentary gives clarity....I believe Peter:thumbs:


Not one of the elect will perish....multitudes of non elect will perish.....God is very willing as he will tell them depart from me I never at anytime knew you.



It cannot be the lost...as Peter clearly says...God is NOT WILLING that any perish....and not one of these Peter speaks of is ever going to perish.....so your suggestion is unbiblical.




:keep in mind....it was you and it is always those like you who offer half a verse......like Satan did to Jesus in luke 4...

To only use half a verse changes what God said. That is what you did. From your posts it seems like you have no trouble with that:wavey:






4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.

5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the Lord will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

Not really much here.

Half a verse?

Did you miss the Scripture presented along with that half a verse?

All means all and men means men...


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Darrell C;.






Acts 2:32-40

King James Version (KJV)

32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.





My statement stands. An argument from silence is no argument at all. The Apostles did not share your false ideas that is why those ideas are not ACTUALLY in the text of scripture.


Do not project on me, what is true of you as that is exactly how you are conducting yourself.....

another fine text....that does not teach what you say....[/QUOTE]

Still no address of the points.

And silence?

You have said absolutely nothing.

Except to deny the Gospel...

The apostles spoke of God saving sinners in Christ. No where in the book of Acts in any sermon did anyone tell the unbeliever...God loves you, or Jesus died for you....no where.....

Here it is again:



Acts 2:32-40

King James Version (KJV)

32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.


Your argument does not stand, as no argument denying the Gospel of Christ stands.

And you really need to learn how to properly quote. Just copy and paste the code that looks like this...

(QUOTE=Iconoclast;2222794)

...before each quote and follow each quote with...

(/QUOTE)

(brackets [ ] changed to parentheses ( ) to disable code so you can see them)


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Darrell C



You have done nothing to "deflate" my theological system...it is still alive and well....thanks for asking. The truth stands against both friendly error, or hostile error. If you want to deflate something...try your ego:laugh:


.

You offer some fine scripture that does not teach what you say however.




For not believing.

Just as the Children of Israel in the Wilderness, who also had the revealed will of God given unto them:




God is angry with the wicked everyday.....


18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness

Notice Paul does not say....the love of God is revealed....

The love of God is only found IN Christ.....

also notice how all men are truth suppressors.....which you denied earlier...that is why I suggested you study here before returning to the discussion:wavey:


God is good to all men mt5:45.......that does not mean He extends His grace to all men......who are responsible to Him.



Not at all......I just use scripture that is part of the topic...most you offer are not on the topic at all.:thumbs:


This has nothing to do with the topic, unless you claim everyone is saved.




correct....not evceryones sin will be removed...Jesus told them in Jn 8....they would die......in their sins.....plural......correct:thumbsup:


maybe if you observed vs 10 you might come closer to truth......the world knew him not




First...I understand it correctly, then I believe it by God's grace.
Continued...

[/QUOTE]

Repeated claims of "I know Scripture and you do not" hardly qualify as answering the points.

"This has nothing to do with the topic"?

Puh-leeeze...

All means all and man means man.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Darrell C

And yes, the Love of God is deep.
When I present the gospel to sinners there is no conflict at all....and it is never a waste of time because I only present The Love of God for sinners as being found IN Christ.....never, apart from Christ.

It is the wrath of God revealed in Rom1 that the sinner stands under,and unless he has Jesus savingly as the God given propitiation...that is all he will experience......

I see you like Zeph 3...so do I:laugh: Let's see which part you left out as you accuse me of doing this:laugh:



Nice...you post a verse speaking of joy and love....but once again...who is the object of that love?........lets look-

5 The just Lord is in the midst thereof; he will not do iniquity: every morning doth he bring his judgment to light, he faileth not; but the unjust knoweth no shame.

6 I have cut off the nations: their towers are desolate; I made their streets waste, that none passeth by: their cities are destroyed, so that there is no man, that there is none inhabitant.

7 I said, Surely thou wilt fear me, thou wilt receive instruction; so their dwelling should not be cut off, howsoever I punished them: but they rose early, and corrupted all their doings.

8 Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the Lord, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.


oh no! Zephaniah should have checked with you first DC....so he could have said.....the love of God is poured out on the whole world:laugh:

you could have sang that song with Diana Warwick.....what the world needs now is LOVE SWEET LOVE.....lol


No....the object of God's saving love is the ELECT REMNANT ONCE AGAIN...
those in Covenant relationship with God.


You see DC......I like all the verses....:laugh:

11 In that day shalt thou not be ashamed for all thy doings, wherein thou hast transgressed against me: for then I will take away out of the midst of thee them that rejoice in thy pride, and thou shalt no more be haughty because of my holy mountain.

12 I will also leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the Lord.

13 The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid.

14 Sing, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O daughter of Jerusalem.

15 The Lord hath taken away thy judgments, he hath cast out thine enemy: the king of Israel, even the Lord, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil any more.

16 In that day it shall be said to Jerusalem, Fear thou not: and to Zion, Let not thine hands be slack.

17 The Lord thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing.

18 I will gather them that are sorrowful for the solemn assembly, who are of thee, to whom the reproach of it was a burden.

19 Behold, at that time I will undo all that afflict thee: and I will save her that halteth, and gather her that was driven out; and I will get them praise and fame in every land where they have been put to shame.

20 At that time will I bring you again, even in the time that I gather you: for I will make you a name and a praise among all people of the earth, when I turn back your captivity before your eyes, saith the Lord.

Apparently you do not like the verses I gave.

Why else have you completely ignored them?


God bless.

 

[Rippon]

The Exclusivity Of God's Love

So the missing part is scripture saying God's discipline is upon all He loves.

You are again in opposition to God's Holy Word.

Heb. 12:6-8 demonstrates that if we are without discipline, then we are not His children. To repeat, the missing part is scripture saying God's discipline is upon all He loves.

You need to read with more understanding.

The Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son.
Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children.
For what children are not disciplined by their father?
If you are not disciplined --and everyone undergoes discipline --then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all. (NIV)

It is saying that God's discipline is upon everyone he loves. It is not saying that his love resides on those He does not discipline.

Rev. 3:19 refers to love (philo) which is reserved for those of His family.

Yes. Those whom the Lord loves he rebukes and disciplines.

Nobody who is honest will claim the opposite. The Lord's love doesn't rest on those he does not rebuke and does not discipline.

Next, Titus 3:3-5 actually refers to God's love of mankind.

"Actually" it does not. Re-read the text of verses 4-7:
"But when the kindness and love of God our Saviour appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Saviour, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. (NIV)

The passage says "he saved us" twice. The Lord saved certain ones --not every individual. Only certain ones receive mercy --not every person. Only certain ones have a rebirth --not every soul. Only particular persons are given a renewal by the Holy Spirit "poured out generously" --not everyone. Only certain ones are justified by his grace and made heirs with the hope of eternal life --not everyone.

Ephesians 2:4-5 says God's great (agape) love for us was shown even when we were dead in our sins. So two in a row that actually support my view.

Math is not your forte --neither is your theology.

But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, (NIV)

That is not any kind of generic love --it is His particular love shed on the elect. Notice the pronoun "us" that is said three times. Only His elect are seated with Him in the heavenly realms --because He chose to make "us" alive. It's due solely to His great "love for us" you should note.

Here we have the effort to redefine "world" as not referring to fallen mankind. That dog will not hunt.

The word "world" is not in the text. So your vanology comes up short once again.

 

[Darrell C]

I can say that right now because I believe what Paul wrote here;[/COLOR]6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed

you can believe that also DC...give it a try:laugh:




yes...those people are the elect sheep:thumbs:








no....I am quite aware of that!


John 11:50-52





:thumbsup:




because when you ignore the verses that answer your objections the discussion goes down.



you call irrelevant the verses you need ...no wonder you miss the truth:laugh:


like in zeph 3....lol



every time you say this ,,,, truth is drifting past you.

As I said before, your soteriology is as sloppy as your eschatology and your posting technique.

You are a slicer and dicer to be sure.

You have cut out anything you knew you could not answer.

Anyone can make claims of knowing Scripture, and like you have, call your antagonist satanic.

But you know that every word you said was quoted and answered, and you could not do the same, because you know that...

...all means all, and men means men, and that your doctrine denies some very simple truths which hinder your theology system:


John 1:8-10

King James Version (KJV)

8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.


That the world knew Him not does not change the fact that He was the True Light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Perhaps if I over-emphasized my text and believe like you that this makes what I say more true you might understand what the Word, which I have not altered...actually states.


Romans 5:18

King James Version (KJV)

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.


All men means all men.

You won't change the fact that the Gift of God is given unto all men, though only those who believe will be saved.

Let's see you actually address these two passages this time.

Spare me "What I believe is right and what you believe is wrong..."

...and address the Scripture.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

You are again in opposition to God's Holy Word.

You need to read with more understanding.

The word "world" is not in the text. So your vanology comes up short once again.

Is it in this...


John 1:8-10

King James Version (KJV)

8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.


...?

And does this...


Romans 5:18

King James Version (KJV)

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.


...not say that the free gift came upon all men?


God bless.

 

[Iconoclast]

Apparently you do not like the verses I gave.

Why else have you completely ignored them?


God bless.

I suspected you had nothing to say you guys never do now you've removed all doubt these empty replies and you have no interest in really discussing the topic because you can't make your case from the Scriptures

 

[Darrell C]

I suspected you had nothing to say you guys never do now you've removed all doubt these empty replies and you have no interest in really discussing the topic because you can't make your case from the Scriptures

I've said all there needs to be said. And I pointed out at least two passages which you completely ignored. Among many.

Try to address them. Show why they do not mean what they say.

You can kid yourself that you have not only been answered but answered well, but you know that is not the case. You have cut out anything that denies your Theology System.

Get to it. Two passages in the last post, address then.


God bless.

 

[Iconoclast]

it's clear you don't understand Romans 5:12 21 for you to state Romans 518 stand by itself as if all men are justified that is ridiculous

 

[Iconoclast]

you said nothing much less all that needs to be said.
go back to zephiniah 3 and show me the love of God is for the whole world

 

[Darrell C]

you said nothing much less all that needs to be said.
go back to zephiniah 3 and show me the love of God is for the whole world

Typical: answer a question with a question.

Told you that you would run.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

it's clear you don't understand Romans 5:12 21 for you to state Romans 518 stand by itself as if all men are justified that is ridiculous

Address the Scripture.

Instead of making things up.

Of course, I guess sloppy quoting procedure allows for imposing something false as said by someone else.

Not one word you said was cut out. Not one word. And every word received a response.

Quote me saying Romans 1:18 "Stands by itself as if..." but wait...

...we see the imposition of what you want to see right there in those two little words...as if.

Since you cannot address the Scripture you are forced to cut the points out and answer with falsities.

Nice.

How does that make you feel, Iconoclast?


God bless.

 

[Iconoclast]

Dc



Not one word you said was cut out. Not one word. And every word received a response.


How does that make you feel, Iconoclast?

/QUOTE]

I suppose I feel a bit sorry for you if you think you answered to the replies you were given your answers are completely incoherent to the responses that were offered to you

 

[Marooncat79]

5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.


The Word here says that God hates sinners and no it does not mean that he loves them but hates their sin

 

[Marooncat79]

Psalm 11

5 The Lord examines the righteous,
but the wicked, those who love violence,
he hates with a passion.

 

[Marooncat79]

Recently I saw a poster that said the bible is the only book in the world where the Author is in love with every person who reads it.

Just a side note if I was writing that I would change it to "loves every person who reads it" instead of "is in love with every person who reads it." None the less

We know what the bible says in John 3:16, so does that mean that He loves every single person? If so, and only those who get saved are those who are predestined/chosen, how is this love manifest for the not predestined/chosen?

It is expressed in "common grace". They breathe God's air, have families, have homes and food etc. even marriage is a common grace experienced by the lost.

John 3:16 is a call to all men an women to believe the Gospel. It does not mean that he loves the elect and the lost to the same degree

 

[Iconoclast]

Darrell C

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.


All men means all men.

You won't change the fact that the Gift of God is given unto all men, though only those who believe will be saved.


Continued...

Anyone who understands romans 5 would not make such a foolish statement.

Anyone with any biblical understanding knows that All men are physically born IN ADAM....by physical birth....

Only those In Christ are given Justification unto life....by new birth spiritual birth......ALL men do not have new birth.....

So your foolish all men statement is false.

You do not understand God's saving love.

Yes I have posted about it as scripture indicates...it is found in Jesus.

You create a caricature of that saving love, ignoring that it is because God loves all men

You repeat this falsehood despite the fact that the scripture tells us exactly who is in view as the objects of the saving love of God.....

It is only the children Given by the Father to the SON. They are identified as the seed of Abraham....not the seed of Adam....all biblical facts that someone such as yourself ignores.

13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham

that He took upon Himself the form of man and died, making the Gift of salvation available to all.

He died for the children, the sheep....no more/no less.

You are blurring the lines because you are exclusionary in your doctrine. You have not the saving love of God, or His heart in regards to the lost...in mind.

Anyone who follows the scripture will agree with what I posted. You deny the clear teaching of scripture point by point then accuse me as if that would correct your mis-understanding.

You have a country club mentality.

This judgmental statement does not in any way change the biblical facts. It just highlights how far away from the biblical position you are.

Unlike you, I have addressed every word and Scripture you have presented and countered with passages showing the error of country club mentality.

No you have not. You avoided each one as you did not understand why they were offered to you in the first place. The scriptures went right over your head.
You read them carelessly and did not begin to grasp what I or Rippon was posting to you:wavey:

It must be embarrassing to have to skip so much in my posts.

What would be embarrassing is if I put them all together and showed that not one thing you posted was on topic, or in any way helped your point of view. Most of your verses said nothing about God's love....much less where the bible says it is.:laugh:

 

[Iconoclast]

Which shows God's love towards unrepentant sinful man.

Now try to calculate that into your doctrine.

If God can show that love to the Elect while they are yet sinners, dead in tresp[asses and sins, having not the first element of worthiness...

...why would that love be withheld from all men?

Because God has not designed to save ALL MEN...that's why.

Your agreement dismantles your dogma.

This makes no sense

Are you sure about that?

Yes...I am sure it makes no sense...

So we agree that God saves according to grace and mercy.

Now if we could just agree on who God's grace and mercy is extended to

:

You would have to believe in the biblical doctrine of election which it looks as if you do not understand it at all.

Ephesians 3:8-10

King James Version (KJV)

8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,


The Gospel goes unto all the world, not just the Elect. It goes through the Elect, but not just to them.

Oh really......DC....if you can get any non elect person saved...go for it....

Relevance?

every passage was relevant even if you cannot understand why...

Again

, we are speaking about God's love bestowed on...who?

You say only the Elect. And then try to proof-text that by ignoring texts which make it abundantly clear.

I do not ignore anything. I just understand the texts which you are miles away from understanding.

 

[Rippon]

Certain People Not The Objects Of His Love

Proverbs 16:4:
The Lord works out everything to its proper end --even the wicked for a day of disaster.

[Certainly not a bad hair day! Judgment Day and thereafter in Perdition.]

Acts 1:25:
to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs

[Judas was assigned a place in Perdition along with many others who also go where they belong.]

Romans 9:11-13 :
Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad --in order that God's purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls --she was told, 'The older will serve the younger.' Just as it is written: 'Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.'

[Lots can be drawn out of the above passage. Suffice it to say that God loved Jacob and hated Esau. No gymnastics can undo the scripturasl meaning.]

1 Thessalonians 5:9 :
For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ

[The "us" are the elect. He has appointed the rest to suffer wrath.]

2 Peter 2:12 :
But these people blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like unreasoning animals, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like animals they too will perish.

[The word "perish" has more weight than mere death. They will experience an eternity of the second death.]

2 Peter 2:17 :
These people are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them.

[They have the same room reservations as Judas.]

Jude 4a :
For certain individuals who were marked out for condemnation...

[They were sentenced to eternal doom.]

There is not a hint of love that God has for them.