God's love question

[Iconoclast]

Proverbs 16:4:
The Lord works out everything to its proper end --even the wicked for a day of disaster.

[Certainly not a bad hair day! Judgment Day and thereafter in Perdition.]

Acts 1:25:
to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs

[Judas was assigned a place in Perdition along with many others who also go where they belong.]

Romans 9:11-13 :
Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad --in order that God's purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls --she was told, 'The older will serve the younger.' Just as it is written: 'Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.'

[Lots can be drawn out of the above passage. Suffice it to say that God loved Jacob and hated Esau. No gymnastics can undo the scripturasl meaning.]

1 Thessalonians 5:9 :
For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ

[The "us" are the elect. He has appointed the rest to suffer wrath.]

2 Peter 2:12 :
But these people blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like unreasoning animals, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like animals they too will perish.

[The word "perish" has more weight than mere death. They will experience an eternity of the second death.]

2 Peter 2:17 :
These people are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them.

[They have the same room reservations as Judas.]

Jude 4a :
For certain individuals who were marked out for condemnation...

[They were sentenced to eternal doom.]

There is not a hint of love that God has for them.

:applause::applause::applause::applause:

 

[Darrell C]

Dc



Not one word you said was cut out. Not one word. And every word received a response.


How does that make you feel, Iconoclast?

/QUOTE]

I suppose I feel a bit sorry for you if you think you answered to the replies you were given your answers are completely incoherent to the responses that were offered to you

I will list what you have ignored:


In Post #20 you left out...

I see. Sorry, thought it was a question you sincerely wanted answered.

I am not sure why I thought that.

I understand now, lol.

If you say so. I thought it was a pretty answer though I might take issue with...

Then you include my statement in the quote.

Then you skip...

1 John 4:19

King James Version (KJV)

19 We love him, because he first loved us.


But I can understand not wanting to be interrupted by an opposing view, so I will bow out.


God bless.

So we see that...

Not one word you said was cut out. Not one word. And every word received a response.

Is hardly true.

Would you like me to point out what else you left out? You can lie to yourself but the public record doesn't lie.

You skated around the point in this Scripture, which is that God first loved us. He manifests that love to all men.

All men means all men.

Want to start over and try to actually address the points this time?

And again, all you have to do to properly quote is to copy and paste the code you see at the beginning of every post you quote like this:


(QUOTE=Iconoclast;2222890)
Not one word you said was cut out. Not one word. And every word received a response.
(/QUOTE)


And again, I have changed the brackets to parentheses to disable the code. When you hit "QUOTE" and go into the response box, the very first code is what identifies who said what and gives the link to the original quote.

Is it pride, shame, or sloth that in over ten thousand posts you still do your antagonists a disservice with improper quoting.

You can practice with this post. Break it up and this time actually leave everything your opponent says in the response, and give an answer to each statement.

Only when you begin doing this will it become less and less easy for you to kid yourself that this...

Not one word you said was cut out. Not one word. And every word received a response.

...is actually true.

If you would like to point out what else you have left out...deny it again.

While I could see how your Theology System has you convinced that only the Elect receive the benefit of God's love for the World, if you would open your eyes to the Word of God you would see that God so loved the World, that He sent His only begotten Son to that World, Who in turn sent the Comforter...to that same world.

God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.


The Word here says that God hates sinners and no it does not mean that he loves them but hates their sin

Perhaps you would like to address the points Iconoclast has ignored?

Show how it is foolishness that we can take God at His Word...


I'll make it easy for you.

Does this...


Romans 1:18-21

King James Version (KJV)

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.


Romans 2:14-15

King James Version (KJV)

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)


Only speak of the Elect?


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Darrell C

Quote:
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.


All men means all men.

You won't change the fact that the Gift of God is given unto all men, though only those who believe will be saved.


Continued...

Anyone who understands romans 5 would not make such a foolish statement.

What foolish statement? This post is so sliced and diced, edited, manufactured...it is simply astounding.

And you do not even post the first part.

Here it is again, let's see another example why the statement...

Not one word you said was cut out. Not one word. And every word received a response.

...is true when I say it, lol, but falsehood when you say it (even if it inadvertent because you are too lazy to even properly quote someone).

So this is what you left out:


As I said before, your soteriology is as sloppy as your eschatology and your posting technique.

You are a slicer and dicer to be sure.

You have cut out anything you knew you could not answer.

Anyone can make claims of knowing Scripture, and like you have, call your antagonist satanic.

But you know that every word you said was quoted and answered, and you could not do the same, because you know that...

...all means all, and men means men, and that your doctrine denies some very simple truths which hinder your theology system:


John 1:8-10

King James Version (KJV)

8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.


That the world knew Him not does not change the fact that He was the True Light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Perhaps if I over-emphasized my text and believe like you that this makes what I say more true you might understand what the Word, which I have not altered...actually states.


Romans 5:18

King James Version (KJV)

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.


Now you have another opportunity to answer it.

We shall see if you will, or if you will continue with "I know the Scripture and you don't," which is not really a response, my friend.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

What would be embarrassing is if I put them all together and showed that not one thing you posted was on topic, or in any way helped your point of view. Most of your verses said nothing about God's love....much less where the bible says it is.:laugh:

I want you to do this, actually, and we will see who is embarrassed.

Anyone reading this would not even know what I have said.

I have specifically asked you to show how what I have said is not on topic, which was actually denied by the OP.

Every post is not on topic, it addresses the OP:

We know what the bible says in John 3:16, so does that mean that He loves every single person? If so, and only those who get saved are those who are predestined/chosen, how is this love manifest for the not predestined/chosen?

So you are now called to account for your boasting...

What would be embarrassing is if I put them all together and showed that not one thing you posted was on topic, or in any way helped your point of view. Most of your verses said nothing about God's love....much less where the bible says it is.:laugh:

Do this.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

It is expressed in "common grace". They breathe God's air, have families, have homes and food etc. even marriage is a common grace experienced by the lost.

John 3:16 is a call to all men an women to believe the Gospel. It does not mean that he loves the elect and the lost to the same degree

Okay, simple question: how does this...


Romans 5:18

King James Version (KJV)

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.


...not mean what it states.

Show how the Gift of God has not come upon all men, and then show how this does not manifest the love of God for the world.

When doctrine brings Scripture into conflict...someone has made a mistake. And it's not Scripture.

"Charisma "is found in vv.15 and 16, dorea found in v.17, so the argument "the free gift" does not appear in the text is not a good one, I think the translators were correct and saw that it is in the context. It actually makes it clear that salvation is not universal.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

DC, your posts are much too long-winded. And you have the tendency to repeat yourself too often.

There is value in making more concise posts.

That's funny, the following does not seem to be longwinded and repetitive:

Originally Posted by Rippon View Post
Attention please. You did not cite Romans 5:5 :
And hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.

Now that is very specific. God's love has not been poured out into the hearts of everyone --only the elect have been the recepients of the Holy Spirit which has been given to us alone.

In verse 9 Paul discusses the fact that we have been justified by his blood and not only that but that we will be saved from God's wrath through him!

And the following verse just emphazise the theme. His love is special, specific and only certain ones are the beneficiaries of His love.

That is not relevant to the OP.

Of course the love of God has been poured out into our hearts when we are saved, the question is does God extend His love only to those who are saved?

The problem with that is this: you also have to say God did not love us before He saved us, if you are saying His love is only manifested towards men after they are saved.


Was this man...


Mark 10:21

King James Version (KJV)

21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.


...Elect?


God bless.

Would you care to answer the question or just skip right to "I can't answer so I will make derisive comments and maybe nobody will notice I ignored the point and question I was scared to answer"?

Answer the Question, and then perhaps your opinion of me might mean something.

And again, we are not discussing God's love manifested to the regenerate, but God's love manifested towards the lost:

We know what the bible says in John 3:16, so does that mean that He loves every single person? If so, and only those who get saved are those who are predestined/chosen, how is this love manifest for the not predestined/chosen?

God bless.

 

[Marooncat79]

Darrell

A couple of points here and then I will be done

1. There is general revelation to literally all men ie it is wrong to lie, commit adultery etc
2. There is special revelation to those whom God has chosen or elect. In order for us to understand the things of God, we must be born again or When God changes our hearts we are given the grace gifts of faith and repentance which always always always always results in salvation. Faith is not given to all men


Since you have called everyone else out, i look forward to your explanation of Psalm 5:5 and 11:5 and also ask a question "Does God love people in hell"

Have a great day

Romans 5:1

 

[Darrell C]

You were done before you even started.

Three passages given and you do not address a single point.

So too were Iconoclast's responses.

Since you are done shall I assume that smokescreen, deflection, and an inability to address the Scripture, points, and questions...is your MO as well?

Please correct me if I am wrong, and you can do that by addressing the posts, instead of...answering questions with questions, and making a point thinking it will be missed that you are ignoring the points raised.

Darrell

A couple of points here and then I will be done

1. There is general revelation to literally all men ie it is wrong to lie, commit adultery etc

And why is that revelation provided to men?

And I will make this easy for you. Just explain this...



1 Timothy 2:3-5

King James Version (KJV)

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

2. There is special revelation to those whom God has chosen or elect.

So the Gospel does not go out to the all men?


Ephesians 3:8-10

King James Version (KJV)

8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,


The Comforter does not minister to the World clearly identified as unbelievers...


John 16:7-9

King James Version (KJV)

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;


...?

Those clearly said to be in expectancy of not just eternal judgment, but worse judgment than that which those who rejected the Covenant of Law would be under...


Hebrews 10:26-29

King James Version (KJV)

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


...?

Peter was mistaken in thinking these...


2 Peter 2:20-21

King James Version (KJV)

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.


...knew the way of truth?

Paul was mistaken in thinking...


2 Thessalonians 1:8

King James Version (KJV)

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:


...refused to obey the Gospel, that he was mistaken in thinking it was The Gospel of Jesus Christ they heard and refused to obey?

My friend, where have you been? You need to straighten me out on my error before you are "done."

In order for us to understand the things of God, we must be born again or When God changes our hearts we are given the grace gifts of faith and repentance which always always always always results in salvation.

Incorrect, in order for us to understand the Spiritual Things of God we must be enlightened by the Holy Spirit:


1 Corinthians 2:10-11

King James Version (KJV)

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.


And Christ makes it clear this is the Ministry of the Comforter:


John 16:7-9

King James Version (KJV)

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;


So does Paul:


Galatians 3

King James Version (KJV)

1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Faith is not given to all men

That is not even relevant to the discussion at hand. No-one has said faith is given to all men.

If you would read the posts, and read the Scripture presented, you would not make irrelevant points.

Since you have called everyone else out, i look forward to your explanation of Psalm 5:5 and 11:5 and also ask a question "Does God love people in hell"

Psalm 5

King James Version (KJV)


5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.


There is a basic principle in Scripture which is as follows: God reveals His will to man out of love. Man responds to that revelation. Judgment follows.

That is the case here, and every proof-text you can supply that eradicates this very basic principle. You can start in Genesis and work your way through Scripture, and when you find the verse or passage that speaks of God hating someone without first loving him, and giving him opportunity for obedience...let me know.

Can you see that principle here...


Psalm 11:5

King James Version (KJV)

5 The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.


...?

Exactly what do you think man is measured by? Whim?

Or the revelation of God?

Have a great day

Romans 5:1

Hey thanks. You too.

And just as a suggestion, how about going back and actually addressing the posts directed at you.

If you are going to try to defend your Theology System, you are going to have to actually engage in serious debate. Ignoring the Scripture and throwing out more proof-texts is not going to qualify as serious engagement. And that is why we are losing the battle with atheists and false religionists, because of sloth.

Not that I'm calling you out or anything.




God bless.

 

[Marooncat79]

Ok here goes

If God truly wants all men to be saved then His perfect will is not being done hence He is not really God at all. The God of the Bible is the supreme ruler of the universe.

It is God who regenerates the heart of man prior to repentance and faith while at the same time granting to the sinner the gifts of repentance and faith

The Timothy passage that you mention means people from all nations ie not just the Jewish nation

 

[Darrell C]

Ok here goes

If God truly wants all men to be saved then His perfect will is not being done hence He is not really God at all. The God of the Bible is the supreme ruler of the universe.

It is God who regenerates the heart of man prior to repentance and faith while at the same time granting to the sinner the gifts of repentance and faith

The Timothy passage that you mention means people from all nations ie not just the Jewish nation

Still not going to address the Scripture.

You might try facebook.

And here is an example of God's will not being done:


Genesis 6

King James Version (KJV)


5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

You pseudo-Calvinists crack me up.


God bless.

 

[Iconoclast]

Darrel

you completely miss every post where help if offered to you.

you need help......big time.....yet you mock those who help

rippon answered you several times...as well as m79......

the response seems to elude you.....
if time permits I will devote a new thread just for you and take one issue at a time and show how you cannot come to truth.....then falsely accuse the brethren......
like the old tv show......you asked for it.

 

[convicted1]

Darrell C, does God loves those in hell right now?

 

[convicted1]

Darrell C, does God loves those in hell right now?

Also, does He Chasen those in hell? It says He chastens them He loves, youse knows?

 

[Iconoclast]

DC

you accused me of a lie when in fact you quote a statement you made and falsely attributed it to me...lol....

So we see that...



Quote:
Not one word you said was cut out. Not one word. And every word received a response.
Is hardly true.

Would you like me to point out what else you left out? You can lie to yourself but the public record doesn't lie.

the public record will show you posted this in post 73...lol.....special help is available for you in the new thread.

 

[Darrell C]

Darrel

you completely miss every post where help if offered to you.

Haven't missed a thing. The record shows that. Your running from the posts already given shows that too.

you need help......big time.....yet you mock those who help

Gosh, just can't respond to such great debate. Whatever will I do now that I have been exposed...

rippon answered you several times...as well as m79......

Could you actually point out where he responded?

Been busy so I have a few posts to catch up on, but it seems to me that no-one has actually shown why the verses I have posted...don't mean what I feel they do.

the response seems to elude you.....

You are right about that. Perhaps you posted them on another forum?

Definitely not in the new thread, your evasion is highlighted there as well, lol.

Run, Iconoclast, I told you that you would.

if time permits I will devote a new thread just for you and take one issue at a time and show how you cannot come to truth.....

Delusion, my it must be grand...

then falsely accuse the brethren......

Show one false statement.

Just one.

like the old tv show......you asked for it.

You mean the Toyota Commercial?

Well, I can see how that might seem like a show to you. Kind of like your evasion is viewed as response.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Darrell C, does God loves those in hell right now?

As a matter of fact there is currently, to our knowledge...no-one in Hell right now.

So the question can be answered very easily with "No God does not love those in Hell right now."

Also, does He Chasen those in hell? It says He chastens them He loves, youse knows?

The fact is that Scripture is clear that God does not chasten those who are not His, but brings upon them His wrath, both in a temporal sense as well as an Eschatological sense.

Now your turn, and I will just offer one passage:


1 Timothy 2:3-5

King James Version (KJV)

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


Does this, or does this not mean what it says?


God bless.

 

[Iconoclast]

yeah I'm running alright I'm running right into Tennessee
a couple hours when I shut down I'll be able to one by one go through your post and show you how you missed each one you have falsely accuse people that don't know what you're talking about in general even though you want to lecture is so don't worry its coming

 

[Darrell C]

yeah I'm running alright I'm running right into Tennessee
a couple hours when I shut down I'll be able to one by one go through your post and show you how you missed each one you have falsely accuse people that don't know what you're talking about in general even though you want to lecture is so don't worry its coming

Not a single false accusation in the thread.

Every word true.

Kinda stings, doesn't it.


God bless.

 

[Rippon]

As a matter of fact there is currently, to our knowledge...no-one in Hell right now.

The residents of Hell most vociferously dispute your incredibly false statement.

Do you think those who have not gone to Heaven are in Purgatory, Limbo --or are you an annihilationalist?