God's Plan For The Ages

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
//The church is rapture before the trib begins, Jesu
has made "Atonement" for the church is "HIS FLESH",
(By his stripes) however Israel will make "ATONEMENT" with
Stripes in their "FLESH", (being killed), this is the
"Chastisement of God" for rejecting Jesus, and the
"ROD" God uses to inflict these "STRIPES" is the AC.


Amen, Brother Me4Him - Preach it!

So you believe that the Israel make atonement for their own sins like Me4Him? If they can do it why can't you and I? Why was it required that Jesus Christ die?

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
//The church is rapture before the trib begins, Jesu
has made "Atonement" for the church is "HIS FLESH",
(By his stripes) however Israel will make "ATONEMENT" with
Stripes in their "FLESH", (being killed), this is the
"Chastisement of God" for rejecting Jesus, and the
"ROD" God uses to inflict these "STRIPES" is the AC.


Amen, Brother Me4Him - Preach it!

So you believe that the Israel make atonement for their own sins like Me4Him? If they can do it why can't you and I? Why was it required that Jesus Christ die? </font>[/QUOTE]Read the "FEAST DAYS" text.

Jesus is:

Passover lamb
Seaf of wheat (firstfruit)
Holy Ghost (voice of Jesus)
Bridegroom
Scapegoat

 

[Ed Edwards]

Amen, Brother Me4HIm -- Preach it!

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Me4Him:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by OldRegular:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
//The church is rapture before the trib begins, Jesu
has made "Atonement" for the church is "HIS FLESH",
(By his stripes) however Israel will make "ATONEMENT" with
Stripes in their "FLESH", (being killed), this is the
"Chastisement of God" for rejecting Jesus, and the
"ROD" God uses to inflict these "STRIPES" is the AC.


Amen, Brother Me4Him - Preach it!

So you believe that the Israel make atonement for their own sins like Me4Him? If they can do it why can't you and I? Why was it required that Jesus Christ die? </font>[/QUOTE]Read the "FEAST DAYS" text.

Jesus is:

Passover lamb
Seaf of wheat (firstfruit)
Holy Ghost (voice of Jesus)
Bridegroom
Scapegoat </font>[/QUOTE]So Me4Him and Ed Edwards apparently believe that the Jews or Messianic Israeli, as Ed likes to call them, can make atonement for their sins.

So I ask again if they can do it why can't you and I? Why was it required that Jesus Christ die for our sins?

Answer the question don't give another meaningless post about nothing.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Person whose name I no longer use:

"Answer the question don't give another
meaningless post about nothing."

Whereas i cannot comply with your demands
(as you would define it)
, which of the
two would you rather have? Would like for me to
'answer your question' or 'not make a meaningless post'?

You see, your trolling comment encourages meaningless posts.

The comment: "So Me4Him and Ed Edwards apparently believe
that the Jews or Messianic Israeli, as Ed likes
to call them, can make atonement for their sins."

is a troll - plain and simple. It is the logical error:
non-sequitur - not in sequence (AKA: OUT OF ORDER)

BTW, i resent being chided for using the phrasie "Messianic Israeli"
because:

1. I never used it
2. yes, i make strings of words to be precise about what i speak of.

In this Gentile Age national Jewish Israeli are saved when they
accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. Then then become Messanic Jews
(A Jew who beleives that Jesus is the Messiah). Messanic Jews
are part of the Bride of Christ: the Church - the Church which will
be raptured before the Tribularion Period starts. In fact, the 144,000
that we see in Revelation 7 are Messanic Jews, national Jewish Israeli
who were saved during the Gentile Age.

Nobody ever (not now, not past ages, not future ages)
made atonement for their own sins. Salvation is only through Jesus,
the Messiah.

P.S. "troll" as defined by by the BB rules:

5. No trolling. Trolling consists of
provoking large volumes of responses by posting
absurdities, deliberately offensive insults, etc.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Ed,

Isn't Jesus, OUR Messiah?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Me4Him:
Obviously, you haven't read all the charts and posting.

The church is rapture before the trib begins, Jesus has made "Atonement" for the church is "HIS FLESH", (By his stripes) however Israel will make "ATONEMENT" with Stripes in their "FLESH", (being killed), this is the "Chastisement of God" for rejecting Jesus, and the "ROD" God uses to inflict these "STRIPES" is the AC.

Since Jesus has already made atonement for the Church, it will "LITERALLY, PASSOVER" the trib by the rapture.

Ed

You are wrong again in the above post, about him with no name, as usual. You gave the Amen to the above post by Me4Him which states

Israel will make "ATONEMENT" with Stripes in their "FLESH", (being killed

No I ask both you and Me4Him, are you saying that the Jews cam make atinement for their sins? All you have to do is give a simple Yes or No.

 

[OldRegular]

Ed
You are correct this one time, you did not say Messanic Israeli you said Jewish Israeli.

posted September 17, 2005 04:48 PM
C) Will there be a mass period of evangelism during
the tribulation?

No, for gentiles.
Yes, for Jewish Israeli.

D) Is martyrdom a prerequisite for salvation
during the tribulation?

Yes, for gentiles.
No, for Jewish Israeli.

From the thread: The Second Coming of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

From him who has no name.

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
So you believe that the Israel make atonement for their own sins like Me4Him? If they can do it why can't you and I? Why was it required that Jesus Christ die?

The church places their sins on the "PASSOVER LAMB",

Then "Sacrifces" the "OLD MAN" as the "GOAT KILLED".

Ro 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed,

There's "TWO" sacrifices made here,
1. the Passover lamb, (Jesus)
2. the "Goat killed". (Body of sin, flesh)

During the trib:

The "SINS" are placed on
1. the "SCAPEGOAT", (Jesus)
2. the "GOAT KILLED" is the "BODY OF SIN". (flesh)

The church only "SPIRITUALLY CRUCIFIES" the "BODY OF SIN", to be saved

However during the TRIB, they will "LITERAL CRUCIFY" the "BODY OF SIN", to be saved.

This is the "CUP" Jesus ask if we could "drink of".

It doesn't make any difference if Jesus is the Passover or Scapegoat,

IF we're not willing to "Sacrifice" this "BODY OF SIN" for his salvation, (drink his cup) we "CAN'T BE SAVED".

The church dies a "SPIRITUAL DEATH" for his "salvation",

Israel/anyone else, will die a "LITERAL DEATH" during the trib.

Jesus has already made atonement for the church in "HIS FLESH", (rapture)

Israel will suffer the chastisement of God in "THEIR FLESH" for rejecting Jesus.

You can't understand the NT unless you understand the OT, it's our "SCHOOL MASTER".

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Me4Him,

WHOAAaaaaa!!! Your teaching does not make a sense to me!

Cannot you understand what the purpose of the Calvary is all about??

Cannot you understand what Christ said, "It is FINISHED." on the cross is talking about?

Cannot you understand what 2 John 2:2 is talking about?

Cannot you understand Hebrews 9:28 says, "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation." talking about?

Bible teaches us, there is the only one plan of salvation for all mankind of all ages through Calvary by His own blood.

There is no difference between "Jewish Isreali" & Gentiles, both are same - "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the SAME LORD over ALL is rich unto ALL call upon Him." - Romans 10:12.

Actually, I already seen so much confusion teaching on dispensationalism, it is enough. Dispensationalism believes God have two different plans for 'Israel' and 'Church'. It stresses there is distinction between Israel and Church in God's program.

Romans 10:12 opposites as what dispensationalism teaching. Romans 10:12 is NOW dealing with today's age(period) for all humankind of God's plan of salvation through Jesus Christ by Calvary. Christ died for all people both Jew and Gentile of their sins. CHrist already paid all people's sins at once, and He said it is finished.

Again, cannot you understand the purpose of Calvary is all about??

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Me4Him:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by OldRegular:
So you believe that the Israel make atonement for their own sins like Me4Him? If they can do it why can't you and I? Why was it required that Jesus Christ die?

The church places their sins on the "PASSOVER LAMB",

Then "Sacrifces" the "OLD MAN" as the "GOAT KILLED".

Ro 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed,

There's "TWO" sacrifices made here,
1. the Passover lamb, (Jesus)
2. the "Goat killed". (Body of sin, flesh)

During the trib:

The "SINS" are placed on
1. the "SCAPEGOAT", (Jesus)
2. the "GOAT KILLED" is the "BODY OF SIN". (flesh)

The church only "SPIRITUALLY CRUCIFIES" the "BODY OF SIN", to be saved

However during the TRIB, they will "LITERAL CRUCIFY" the "BODY OF SIN", to be saved.

This is the "CUP" Jesus ask if we could "drink of".

It doesn't make any difference if Jesus is the Passover or Scapegoat,

IF we're not willing to "Sacrifice" this "BODY OF SIN" for his salvation, (drink his cup) we "CAN'T BE SAVED".

The church dies a "SPIRITUAL DEATH" for his "salvation",

Israel/anyone else, will die a "LITERAL DEATH" during the trib.

Jesus has already made atonement for the church in "HIS FLESH", (rapture)

Israel will suffer the chastisement of God in "THEIR FLESH" for rejecting Jesus.

You can't understand the NT unless you understand the OT, it's our "SCHOOL MASTER". </font>[/QUOTE]Me4Him

From the nonsense posted above, and on earlier posts, it appears that you are teaching that the Jews/Israel are saved other than by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. THAT IS HERESY! Of particular concern is the statement

However during the TRIB, they will "LITERAL CRUCIFY" the "BODY OF SIN", to be saved.

Scripture clearly teaches:

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

 

[OldRegular]

DeafPosttrib

Good response to Me4Him. Not that it will do any good. To say the least his posts are more confusing than those of Ed Edwards. In his latest and a number of earlier posts it appears that he is saying that Jews/Israel make atonement for their own sins during the so-called great tribulation. If that is what he is saying it is heresy.

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
DeafPosttrib

Good response to Me4Him. Not that it will do any good. To say the least his posts are more confusing than those of Ed Edwards. In his latest and a number of earlier posts it appears that he is saying that Jews/Israel make atonement for their own sins during the so-called great tribulation. If that is what he is saying it is heresy.

Mercy, what am I going to do with ya'll???

Read the following verse.

Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Jesus suffer the "Chastisement" for the "CHURCH" in "HIS FLESH", BY HIS STRIPES WE ARE HEALED.

Here's is how we are saved.

1. PASSOVER LAMB, Jesus
2. Old man crucified, "Body of sin" (Flesh, Goat killed)

Ro 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin (Flesh) might be destroyed,

But because Israel rejected Jesus, they will suffer the "STRIPES" of "CHASTISEMENT" in their "OWN FLESH", their "BODIES" will "literal die", as Jesus's body did on Calvary.

Here's how they are saved.

1. Scapegoat, Jesus
2. their own body, (Flesh, Goat killed)

Re 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb,

and they loved not their lives unto the death.

The church only dies a "Spiritual death" for Jesus's salvation,

Jews will die a "LITERAL DEATH" for Jesus's salvation,

That is their "Chastisement" and why they must be willing to "literally die" (crucify the flesh) to make atonement for rejecting Jesus.

Since Jesus has already made atonement for the church, it will "PASSOVER" the "Day of Atonement" for Israel. (Pre trib rapture)

Let me ask both of you a question, do you think that knowing as much as I do about scripture that I "DON'T KNOW" that Jesus is the "ONLY WAY"??

Ya'll questions keep suggesting that I don't know or believe this.

Let's get passed that point and move on.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Me4HIm,

Isa. 53:5 apply to all mankinds, not just for Isreal(Jews) only. Christ died on the cross for all people of the world. He onced offering of his body for us. Nothing there is a 'special' atonement for Israel in the great tribulation.

Christ is the lamb for all mankinds included Israel. There is the only one salvation for everyone.

Also, Christ already paid all mankinds included Israel's sin through His own blood by Calvary. He said, it is done. That was 2,000 years ago. Nothing adding unto salvation for the future. Christ already paid all mankind's sin of all ages both O.T. and N.T. at once.

Your teaching seems weird to me. I do not agree with you.

Calvary is for everyone of all ages(from creation to the end of the age). That Christ already sacrificed all at once 2,000 years ago. Cannot you understand the purpose of Calvary is all about?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by DeafPosttrib:
[QB] Me4HIm,

Isa. 53:5 apply to all mankinds, not just for Isreal(Jews) only. Christ died on the cross for all people of the world. He onced offering of his body for us. Nothing there is a 'special' atonement for Israel in the great tribulation. [QB]

Judging from what you are posting, you don't have an "OVER VIEW" of the whole picture of scripture.

God isn't finished with Israel yet, they're "blinded" until the "fulness of the Gentiles" (rapture) then using "Moses/Elijah" (two witnesses) God will bring Israel under the "CROSS".

That's what you'll have to understand/accept before the rest of the picture will come into "VIEW".

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by Me4Him:

God isn't finished with Israel yet, they're "blinded" until the "fulness of the Gentiles" (rapture) then using "Moses/Elijah" (two witnesses) God will bring Israel under the "CROSS".

Amen, Brother Me4Him -- Preach it!

Here is the scripture:

Luk 21:24 (KJV1611):
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall bee
led away captiue into all nations, and Hierusalem shall
be troden downe of the Gentiles, vntill the times
of the Gentiles bee fulfilled.

Rom 11:25 (KJV1611):
For I would not, brethren, that ye should bee ignorant
of this mysterie (least yee should bee wise in your
owne conceits) that blindnesse in part
is happened to Israel, vntill the fulnes of
the Gentiles be come in

 

[OldRegular]

Me4Him and EE

You both are posting and giving the amen to nothing but unScriptural nonsense. I don't know what you two have been readng but it isn't the Bible.

Me4Him you write

The church only dies a "Spiritual death" for Jesus's salvation,

Jews will die a "LITERAL DEATH" for Jesus's salvation,

What in the name of God do you mean the "Church only dies a spiritual death"? Spiritual death is damnation.

The Church doesn't die for the Salvation of Jesus Christ, the Jew doesn't die for the Salvation of Jesus Christ. He doesn't need salvation. Jesus Christ died for the Salvation of the Church as shown in the following Scripture.

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Likewise your statement

Jews will die a "LITERAL DEATH" for Jesus's salvation,

is beyond comprehension. What does dying physically have to do with anything? I assume that is what you mean by "Literal Death".


EE

The two passages you posted have no relation to the nonsense that Me4Him is posting.

 

[Ed Edwards]

It is so sad to see a Brother Like Me4Him show his best pearls.
It is so sad to see them trampled into the dust by the
un-self-disclipined.

DeafPosttrib: "WHOAAaaaaa!!! Your teaching does not make a sense to me!"

Smash! goes the pearl into the mud.

DeafPosttrib: "Cannot you understand what the
purpose of the Calvary is all about??"

Pop! goes another pearl into the dust.
Uh, if you know, feel free to tell us.

DeafPosttrib: //Cannot you understand what Christ
said, "It is FINISHED." on the cross
is talking about?//

Squash! there goes another pearl lost under the
surface of the mud puddle. BTW, i told you the anwer
to that question so you aught to know the answer by now

DeafPosttrib: //Cannot you understand what 2 John 2:2 is talking about?//

Splat!! there goes another valuable pearl into the dust
to be trampled upon. BTW, 2 John just has one chapter

Let us try 1 JOhn 2:2

1 John 2:2 (KJV1769):
And he is the propitiation for our sins; and not
for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Here you go, here is your chance to show off what you know
to the whole world. BTW, what does this verse have to do
with the discussion of

DeafPosttrib: //Cannot you understand Hebrews 9:28 says, "So Christ was once offered
to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall
he appear the second time without sin unto salvation." talking about?/

Splogg! another pearl gets stepped on.
It is talking about the pretribulation rapture when the lost
gentiles are glorified in/by/for Jesus, the Jew.
It is talking about the Glorious Second Coming of Jesus event
when Jesus takes the now saved Jewish Israeli nation into the
physical Millinnial Messianic Kingdom. God's plan is so wonderful:
to save the Gentiles like you and me AND then save the NEVER UNCHOSEN
people: the national Jewish Israeli too.

Deafposttrib: //Bible teaches us, there is the only one plan of salvation
for all mankind of all ages through Calvary by His own blood//

Amen, Brother DeafPosttrib -- Preach it!
But why then will you damn one who shows HOW the 'one plan of
salvation' is going to happen? Why do you discredit the one who
has a picture of God's application through MORE THAN TWO ages?

 

[Ed Edwards]

DeafPosttrib: //Isn't Jesus, OUR Messiah?//

Yes.


Jumped to conclusion #1a and #1b:
//Are you now telling me that the Son of God shall be turned
into darkness and the Church into blood? I thought that according
to dispensational error the Church had been raptured out.//

Me4Him trying to say "no":
//Obviously, you haven't read all the charts and posting.

//The church is rapture before the trib begins, Jesus has made
"Atonement" for the church is "HIS FLESH", (By his stripes)
however Israel will make "ATONEMENT" with Stripes in their
"FLESH", (being killed), this is the "Chastisement of God"
for rejecting Jesus, and the "ROD" God uses to inflict these
"STRIPES" is the AC.

//Since Jesus has already made atonement for the Church,
it will "LITERALLY, PASSOVER" the trib by the rapture.//

Jumped to conclusion #2a, #2b, and #2c:
//So you are saying that the Jews will make atonement
for their own sins? Now where in Scripture does
it teach that man can atone for his sins? If that be
true why was it necessary that Jesus Christ, God the Son
die on a Roman cross?

The answers are 2a: NO
3a: nowhere
3b: your false premesis makes the questions foolish.

Jumped to conclusion #3:
//[I can see it now. We will have a bunch of Jewish
flagellants running around flailing themselves
on the back with chains and stuff. They do that in some
countries now you know. In fact I saw some Muslims
doing that on TV]//

Strange image you lept to, nothing was said anthing about self
flagellation???

Somebody is jumping from strange conclusions to strange conclusion.
I know i'm not supposed to even consider the motive for doing such
strange things, but it sure looks a lot like Trolling to me.

Why else would a person misconstrue a Me4Hm's answer to
Jumped to conclusion #1.

Maybe i need to each Brother Me4Him to answer in kind

Jumped to conclusion #1a and #1b:
//Are you now telling me that the Son of God shall be turned
into darkness and the Church into blood?//

Suggested answer:

SIMILE - n. - 1. a figure of speach in which two unlike
things are explicitly compared
example: "she is like a rose"

METAPHOR - n. - a figure of speach in which two unlike
things are inxplicitly compared
example: "she is a rose

Me4Him:
//Israel will make "ATONEMENT" with Stripes in their "FLESH", (being killed)

Boycotted person:
//No I ask both you and Me4Him, are you saying that the Jews
cam make atinement for their sins? All you have to do
is give a simple Yes or No.//

Your question is invalid. The question is not adequately described
by your statement. Your 'lawyer question' cannot be answered by
a simple yes or no. What Me4Him means by 'atonement' may not mean
what i mean by 'atonement'. I don't see how the statement of Me4Him
can be understood outside the Dispensational frame of reference.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
EE

The two passages you posted have no relation
to the nonsense that Me4Him is posting.

Thank you. That is quite a disconect

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Me4Him:

God isn't finished with Israel yet, they're "blinded" until the "fulness of the Gentiles" (rapture) then using "Moses/Elijah" (two witnesses) God will bring Israel under the "CROSS".

Amen, Brother Me4Him -- Preach it!

Here is the scripture:

Luk 21:24 (KJV1611):
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall bee
led away captiue into all nations, and Hierusalem shall
be troden downe of the Gentiles, vntill the times
of the Gentiles bee fulfilled.

Rom 11:25 (KJV1611):
For I would not, brethren, that ye should bee ignorant
of this mysterie (least yee should bee wise in your
owne conceits) that blindnesse in part
is happened to Israel, vntill the fulnes of
the Gentiles be come in </font>[/QUOTE]I'll see if i can find the quotation of Me4Him
that the scriptures fit.