God's Plan For The Ages

[Me4Him]

OK, I "think" I "see" what ya'll are "missing".

Read the following verses.

1Co 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you,

1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

The "fornication" can be either "physical sex" or "Spiritual", as in "whoring after other gods".

Israel committed the "Spiritual fornication" when they rejected Jesus.

And God give Satan "POWER" to kill their "physical bodies" during the trib, this is "God's Chastisement" for their "Fornication".

Since Satan/AC is the "ROD" God uses to chastise them, you could say "God beat their "bodies of sin to death" with the "ROD", and those who are willing to die for Jesus's salvation will be saved, those who don't will die both physically/Spiritually. .

One of the "common characteristic" of people is that when they are in "GREAT TRIBULATIONS" they will "CALL ON GOD", and that's why/what happens during the trib.

BTW, not everything saved will be rapture, Ten virgins went to meet the "Bridegroom" but only Five left, the other five wasn't "listening" to the Spirit, their "LIGHTS" had "gone out", no ears to hear the "VOICE OF JESUS" in the rapture, they were saved, but not "Accounted worthy" to escape the trib, their "old man" (body of sin) had been "resurrected", and the Chastisement of Israel will apply to them,

If the "SAVED" doesn't keep the "OLD MAN" crucified, God will allow Satan to do it for them.

1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
Me4Him and EE

You both are posting and giving the amen to nothing but unScriptural nonsense. I don't know what you two have been readng but it isn't the Bible.

Me4Him you write The church only dies a "Spiritual death" for Jesus's salvation,

Jews will die a "LITERAL DEATH" for Jesus's salvation, What in the name of God do you mean the "Church only dies a spiritual death"? Spiritual death is damnation.

Can a person be saved who "IS NOT" willing to give up the "life" the "FLESH" wants to live, that is the "Lust of the Flesh", "Lust of the Eye", and the "PRIDE OF LIFE"???

It's the "LUST OF THE FLESH", our "BODY OF SIN" that we must "Crucify" (kill) if we're to have a life where the "Holy Ghost" controls our life instead of the Flesh.

A person "CAN NOT" be saved unless they're willing to "KILL" this "LUST OF THE FLESH". (body of sin)

When we allow the "SPIRIT" to control our "bodies", then the "lust of the flesh" is "KILLED".

Ro 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

That's what is meant:

Ro 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed,

The Church only dies a "Spiritual death", (Spirit of the old man, LUST) but Israel will die a "literal death".

Church:
1. Passover lamb
2. Old man (Spiritually)


Israel:
1. Scapegoat (Jesus)
2. Old man, (Literally)

Re 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb,
and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Got it???

 

[menageriekeeper]

bumping to make it easier for me to find.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by menageriekeeper:
bumping to make it easier for me to find.

Amen, Sister Menageriekeeper - That will do it!!

 

[EdSutton]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
That is RIGHT-ON brother StefanM !

I think there is more than being allegorical feared about
Origen of Alexandria(A.D. late 2nd -3rd cent.)

Mat 18:8-9 (KJV1611 Edition):
Wherefore if thy hand or thy foote offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather then hauing two hands or two feete, to be cast into euerlasting fire.
Mat 18:9 And if thine eie offend thee, plucke it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eie, rather then hauing two eies, to be cast into hell fire.

However, Origen did take this scripture literal:
Origen had himself surgically castrated so he wouldn't be
tempted to waste time devoted to serving God with sexual things.
For most of his life he was the New Member mentor for the
First Baptist Church of Alexandria. Back then a person was
mentored in the faith for two years before being presented
as a candidate for Baptism.

DOUBLE OUCH!!

Seriously, I figured Sir Ed, Sr. Sir, probably knew who was Origen. Sir Ed Jr. sir, on the other hand is not as astute in Church History, as he might be, being a farmer and taxi driver, by trade, and can stand to learn a lot more. The charts ARE interesting and VERY informative, but I'm not sure any of us should build all our eschatology on any charts, including my own. I know I've drawn up some, but would never suggest that I have all the answers. Generally, I have found the charts, and the discussions about tehm by all very enlightening, and obviouly some more than others, as all of us should expect. And I seriously doubt, any can realistically assume 'they got it ALL right'!
In His grace,
Ed

 

[EdSutton]

Oh, yeah! One more thing. I think "the
First Baptist Church of Alexandria" bit is going a wee bit far, don't all of you?

In His grace,
Ed

 

[EdSutton]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Me4Him:

God isn't finished with Israel yet, they're "blinded" until the "fulness of the Gentiles" (rapture) then using "Moses/Elijah" (two witnesses) God will bring Israel under the "CROSS".

Amen, Brother Me4Him -- Preach it!

Here is the scripture:

Luk 21:24 (KJV1611):
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall bee
led away captiue into all nations, and Hierusalem shall
be troden downe of the Gentiles, vntill the times
of the Gentiles bee fulfilled.

Rom 11:25 (KJV1611):
For I would not, brethren, that ye should bee ignorant
of this mysterie (least yee should bee wise in your
owne conceits) that blindnesse in part
is happened to Israel, vntill the fulnes of
the Gentiles be come in </font>[/QUOTE]Amen, Sir Ed Ed Sr., Sir- Preach it!

Sir Ed Ed, Jr.

 

[EdSutton]

I just wonder something. Does this passage have to do with anything? Comes from Matthew 24.

"8But all these [are the] beginning of throes.

9Then shall they deliver you up to tribulation, and shall kill you; and ye will be hated of all the nations for my name's sake.

10And then will many be offended, and will deliver one another up, and hate one another;

11and many false prophets shall arise and shall mislead many;

12and because lawlessness shall prevail, the love of the most shall grow cold;

13but he that has endured to the end, *he* shall be saved.

14And these glad tidings of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole habitable earth, for a witness to all the nations, and then shall come the end.

15When therefore ye shall see the abomination of desolation, which is spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in [what is a] holy place, (he that reads let him understand,)

16then let those who are in Judaea flee to the mountains;

17let not him that is on the house come down to take the things out of his house;

18and let not him that is in the field turn back to take his garment.

19But woe to those that are with child, and those that give suck in those days.

20But pray that your flight may not be in winter time nor on sabbath:

21for then shall there be great tribulation, such as has not been from [the] beginning of [the] world until now, nor ever shall be;

22and if those days had not been cut short, no flesh had been saved; but on account of the elect those days shall be cut short.

23Then if any one say to you, Behold, here is the Christ, or here, believe [it] not.

24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall give great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.

25Behold, I have told you beforehand.

26If therefore they say to you, Behold, he is in the desert, go not forth; behold, [he is] in the inner chambers, do not believe [it].

27For as the lightning goes forth from the east and shines to the west, so shall be the coming of the Son of man.

28[For] wherever the carcase is, there will be gathered the eagles.

29But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken."

Let's see:
throes (v.9)
triulation (v.10)
great tribulation (v.21)
after the tribulation (v.29)

Hmmm! I wonder if this might be where some of these ideas come from?

Probably SHOULD be suspect. It is the DARBY translation, ya' know!

Try the ASV! The have it different. 'Travail' in place of 'throes'. Nope? Guess I better look some more!
Ed

 

[Ed Edwards]

EdSutton: //The charts ARE interesting and VERY informative,
but I'm not sure any of us should build all our eschatology
on any charts, including my own. I know I've drawn up some,
but would never suggest that I have all the answers.//

Amen, on "The charts ARE interesting and VERY informative ... "
I just think that Me4Him's charts are a lot easier to understand
than all my long wordy posts, but they say about the same thing.
And anyway, I give Me4Him a A+ (98%) for effort and accuracy.
Of course, what counts is what God gives him.
Anyway, it is all beside the point: Me4Him works for
God, not for us Ed's.

And another thing, I never did figure out how to make pictures
of my charts

EdSutton: //Oh, yeah! One more thing. I think "the
First Baptist Church of Alexandria" bit is going
a wee bit far, don't all of you?//

tee hee. We needed some stress relief after the weedk-wacker story,
didn't we

YBIC,
Ed Le Grande
(which might mean "Ed the Great!" but
probably just means "Ed the Huge".)

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by DeafPosttrib:
Me4HIm,

Isa. 53:5 apply to all mankinds, not just for Isreal(Jews) only. Christ died on the cross for all people of the world. He onced offering of his body for us. Nothing there is a 'special' atonement for Israel in the great tribulation.

Christ is the lamb for all mankinds included Israel. There is the only one salvation for everyone.

Also, Christ already paid all mankinds included Israel's sin through His own blood by Calvary. He said, it is done. That was 2,000 years ago. Nothing adding unto salvation for the future. Christ already paid all mankind's sin of all ages both O.T. and N.T. at once.

Your teaching seems weird to me. I do not agree with you.

Calvary is for everyone of all ages(from creation to the end of the age). That Christ already sacrificed all at once 2,000 years ago. Cannot you understand the purpose of Calvary is all about?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen! [/QB]

Excellent point! As Heb 10 says the sacrifice of Christ is "ONCE for all time"!!

ONCE for all and in doing so "HE puts a STOP to sin offerings and sacrifices" according to Heb 10!!

To deny this - is to deny the very heart of the Gospel in the sacrifice of Christ!

You have done well DeafPostTrib!! You have given Bible details to be reviewed and studied and accepted.

Nice going!

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by EdSutton:
I just wonder something. Does this passage have to do with anything? Comes from Matthew 24.

"8But all these [are the] beginning of throes.

9Then shall they deliver you up to tribulation, and shall kill you; and ye will be hated of all the nations for my name's sake.

10And then will many be offended, and will deliver one another up, and hate one another;

11and many false prophets shall arise and shall mislead many;

12and because lawlessness shall prevail, the love of the most shall grow cold;

13but he that has endured to the end, *he* shall be saved.

14And these glad tidings of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole habitable earth, for a witness to all the nations, and then shall come the end.

15When therefore ye shall see the abomination of desolation, which is spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in [what is a] holy place, (he that reads let him understand,)

16then let those who are in Judaea flee to the mountains;

17let not him that is on the house come down to take the things out of his house;

18and let not him that is in the field turn back to take his garment.

19But woe to those that are with child, and those that give suck in those days.

20But pray that your flight may not be in winter time nor on sabbath:

21for then shall there be great tribulation, such as has not been from [the] beginning of [the] world until now, nor ever shall be;

22and if those days had not been cut short, no flesh had been saved; but on account of the elect those days shall be cut short.

The perfect example of the "GREAT TRIBULATION" coming BEFORE the appearing of Christ as Matt 24 presents the sequence!

Excellent DETAILS seen above just by quoting the text as that sequence so debunks the speculation that BEFORE the Great Tribulation there IS the return of Christ - the Appearing of Christ and the gathering of the saints in the FIRST resurrection.

Those ideas fall appart when the details in the sequence of MAtt 24 are accepted.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

The time line according to Matthew 24

1. church age continues &lt;== you are here! Matthew 24:4-15

2. Tribulation time Matthew 24:21-28

3. Second Advent of Jesus event Matthew 24:29-30)

4. rapture/resurrection event Matthew 24:31-44, Rev 20:4-5

5. Millennium - Rev 20:5-end

Matt 24
14 ""This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

Not until the Gospel has gone into the entire world - will Christ come - and this was spoken by Christ pre-cross and then published by Matt post-cross - as a "future event". The Gospel going into all the world - an event we "Still" wait for.. This scope applies to “all mankind” not just Jews.

Matt 24
15 ""Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place ( let the reader understand),
16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains;
17 Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house.
18 Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.
19 ""But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
20 ""But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.

Where was “the holy place” in the days of Christ – was it outside of the city in the burial grounds?

Jer 31
38 ""Behold, days are coming,'' declares the LORD, ""when the city will be rebuilt for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate.
39 ""The measuring line will go out farther straight ahead to the hill Gareb; then it will turn to Goah.
40 ""And the whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the LORD; it will not be plucked up or overthrown anymore forever.''

Matt 24
21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.
22 ""Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

The persecution of Christians by the Pagan Roman empire - and then persecution of Christians by the Holy Roman Empire - "The Dark Ages" - represents centuries of killing Christians - unprecidented in extent and length of time - in all of history.

This non-SDA link shows a chronology of the Matt 24 events that DOES have the 1260 years of the dark ages matched with the expected tribulation mentioned in Matt 24.
http://www.bibleexplained.com/Gospels/Matt/mt21-25/Mt24.htm

Matt 24:
23 "" Then if anyone says to you, "Behold, here is the Christ,' or " There He is,' do not believe him.
24 ""For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
25 ""Behold, I have told you in advance.
26 ""So if they say to you, "Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, "Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them.
27 "" For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

The visibility of cloud-to-could lightning - from one end of heaven to the other - is the "comparison" made with the 2nd coming.

The coming is in the clouds - just as the lightning and just as the "signs".

Matt 24:
29 ""But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Matthew 24:14 (HCSB):

This good news of the kingdom will be proclaimed
in all the world as a testimony to all nations.
And then the end will come.

BobRyun: //Not until the Gospel has gone into the entire world - will
Christ come - and this was spoken by Christ pre-cross and then
published by Matt post-cross - as a "future event". The Gospel
going into all the world - an event we "Still" wait for...//

You are correct, but this is true both in the post-trib scenario
and the pretrib scenario. Also, consider this:

Original writing by Ed, may be
duplicated on the pages of BB (Baptist Board) and
other bbs (bulletin boards).
------------------------------------
Items quoted from THE ALMANAC OF THE CHRISTIAN WORLD,
1991-1992 Edition (Tyndale, 1990), page 305+.

61AD - Colossians 1:6 (HCSB):
the gospel that has come to you. It is bearing fruit
and growing all over the world, just as it has
among you since the day you heard it and recognized
God's grace in the truth.

c. 140AD - Hermas writes: "The Son of God ... has
been preached to the ends of the earth" (Shepherd
of Hermas).

197AD - Tertullian (c160-222) ... writes ... "There
is no nation indeed which is not Christian" ...

c. 205AD - Clement of Alexandria (c155-215) ... writes
"The whole world, with Athens and Greece, has already
become the domain of the Word."

c. 310 - Eusebius of Caesarea (c265-339) writes ...
""The doctrine of the Savious
has irradiated the whole Oikumene
(whole inhabited earth)"

378 - Jerome (c345-419) writes: "From India to Britian, all
nations resound with the death and resurrection of CHrist".
estimates 1.9 million Christians* to have been marytred
since AD33 (out of 120 million Christians). ...

etc.
------------------------------------
* compare 1.9 Million Christians 30ad-378AD
with 28 Million Christian martyrs in
the 20th Century (1901-2000).

 

[Ed Edwards]

Matthew 24:26 (source unknown):

So if they say to you, "Behold, He is in the wilderness,'
do not go out, or, "Behold, He is in the inner rooms,'
do not believe them.
27 "" For just as the lightning comes from the east
and flashes even to the west, so will the coming
of the Son of Man be.

About 1844 the Millerites were looking for Jesus to return.
About the same year, in the Persian Desert the Bab
(forerunner of the latest masfestion of the Christ spirit)
But the Millerites didn't recognize him.
About the same year, in the inner rooms in Western New York
state the false prophet of the Mormons translated the golden
plates of the angel Moroni: AKA: the Book of Mormon.
Yes, when Jesus comes back THE WHOLE WORLD WILL KNOW something
happened. If you are going to be the Antichrist, I suggest you
figure out your good explanation NOW.

BobRyan: //The visibility of cloud-to-could lightning - from one end of
heaven to the other - is the "comparison" made with the 2nd coming.

//The coming is in the clouds - just as the lightning and just as the "signs".//

Amen, Brother BobRyan, you have seen THe Tree in the Bible:
the Second coming in Glory of our Blessed Lord and Savior: Messiah
Jesus. Our Brother Me4Him has seen and drawn pictures of
THE WHOLE BLESSED FOREST. I'll stick with his pictures instead
of the 'stick figure' tree picture.

I beleive that the part of the Second Coming in which Jesus
arrives as the dawning sun (more of a Dawning Son

) is part of
the picture. At the same time He will set up His earthly Millinnial Messanic
Kingdom on a physical earth. But this is just part of the wonderful
story the Bible has of the last days of earth.
destroyes