Grace and discipleship

[HisWordIsTruth]

True exegesis does not involve itself in a lot of mental gymnastics and contortionism trying to make the Truths of God’s Word harmonious.

Linda thanks for the quote. This is exactly what you folks are doing.

Acts 16:30-31 and Eph. 2:8-9 CLEARLY say that ONLY believe/faith is involved in salvation. And you guys are doing some crazy sort of mental gymnastics to say that some how confessing and repenting and whatever else you might add is somehow either all contained within believe/faith or doesn't contradict believe.

If it wasn't so sad to see you all mangle the Word of God it would be down right hillarious seeing how you all try to make something that should be OBVIOUSLY contradictory into the same subject.

Standingfirm even himself admitted that these two subjects couldn't be speaking of the same thing or they contradicted each other. Then he reversed his decision, because if you admit that these aren't speaking of the same thing then you will be rode out of town with all sorts of garbage thrown at you.

Bottom line is it's easier to go with the flow than it is to rock the boat. So most folks are "comfortable" continuing to believe what they believe whether it goes along with what the Scriptures teach or not. Sad. But true! :tear:

 

[Revmitchell]

Joe it really doesn't matter to these folks obviously. It's easier to talk about the meaningless than it is to focus on the meaningful!

Jason what is meaningful is your consistant attempts at registering at boards (either this one or mine) that have banned you. For goodness sake I had to ban you 4 times in one day. Now you continue to register under new names and spue your heresy. It means you have no regard for others only your agenda. It is quite meaningful to centend for the faith and to "mark" them that stray from the gospel the Apostles preached. You are now marked.

 

[HisWordIsTruth]

Revmitchell if you have your own board why are you posting here? :laugh:

It means you have no regard for others only your agenda.

Well I do have an agenda that is true. And that is to stand firm on the word of God and expose false teachers such as yourself that teach a back-end works based salvation that keeps believers in infancy instead of letting them mature.

Just take a look around the whole of the Christian religion for goodness sake. People are drowning on milk, if they are getting that in churches today.

It's disgusting to even think about. This is the lukewarm age of the church and people are heaping up a bunch of ear ticklers to themselves and are crying peace where there is no peace.

And if you're anything like the rest you will merely right off these lukewarm folks as pretenders. Well Scripture tells us otherwise, so instead of sticking our heads in the sand as you folks do we need to deal with it and not write these folks off and continue to confuse them, which is all you people are doing when you can't even stand on believe on the Lord Jesus as YOU WILL BE SAVED.

Your back-end works based salvation message does not bring "peace" to anyone. It keeps them constantly guessing if they produce enough fruit or the right kind of fruit so that people won't question whether they are saved or not, if they even care.

Yes I have an agenda. It's to stand on thus says the Lord and to call people on the carpet that try to usurp the Authority of God's Word for the tradition of man.

If you want to "mark" me for believing what God's word actually says instead of what you and others say about it then you go ahead and mark me and I'll wear your mark for the Glory of God Almighty!!!!!!

Your "mark" is meaningless and only holds weight with those that think along the same lines you do. It's sad, but there's a lot of them .

Let me use one example of the disgusting things going on in the church, and I'm not talking about the rampant sin of all kinds from leaders, but Rick Warren was asked about discipleship in his church which runs thousands upon thousands and he himself, maybe the father of ear tickling, says that his church doesn't even "disciple" HALF (it was actually more than that, but I can't remember the exact number) of its members!

That's disgusting. And it's not just Rick Warren's church. Churches today are worried about nickles and noses as the ole saying goes.

 

[Revmitchell]

Revmitchell if you have your own board why are you posting here? :laugh:

Well I do have an agenda that is true. And that is to stand firm on the word of God and expose false teachers such as yourself that teach a back-end works based salvation that keeps believers in infancy instead of letting them mature.

Just take a look around the whole of the Christian religion for goodness sake. People are drowning on milk, if they are getting that in churches today.

It's disgusting to even think about. This is the lukewarm age of the church and people are heaping up a bunch of ear ticklers to themselves and are crying peace where there is no peace.

And if you're anything like the rest you will merely right off these lukewarm folks as pretenders. Well Scripture tells us otherwise, so instead of sticking our heads in the sand as you folks do we need to deal with it and not write these folks off and continue to confuse them, which is all you people are doing when you can't even stand on believe on the Lord Jesus as YOU WILL BE SAVED.

Your back-end works based salvation message does not bring "peace" to anyone. It keeps them constantly guessing if they produce enough fruit or the right kind of fruit so that people won't question whether they are saved or not, if they even care.

Yes I have an agenda. It's to stand on thus says the Lord and to call people on the carpet that try to usurp the Authority of God's Word for the tradition of man.

If you want to "mark" me for believing what God's word actually says instead of what you and others say about it then you go ahead and mark me and I'll wear your mark for the Glory of God Almighty!!!!!!

Your "mark" is meaningless and only holds weight with those that think along the same lines you do. It's sad, but there's a lot of them .

Let me use one example of the disgusting things going on in the church, and I'm not talking about the rampant sin of all kinds from leaders, but Rick Warren was asked about discipleship in his church which runs thousands upon thousands and he himself, maybe the father of ear tickling, says that his church doesn't even "disciple" HALF (it was actually more than that, but I can't remember the exact number) of its members!

That's disgusting. And it's not just Rick Warren's church. Churches today are worried about nickles and noses as the ole saying goes.

You continue to expose yourself.

 

[HisWordIsTruth]

You continue to expose yourself.

And you continue with meaningless drivel.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Linda thanks for the quote. This is exactly what you folks are doing.

Acts 16:30-31 and Eph. 2:8-9 CLEARLY say that ONLY believe/faith is involved in salvation. And you guys are doing some crazy sort of mental gymnastics to say that some how confessing and repenting and whatever else you might add is somehow either all contained within believe/faith or doesn't contradict believe.

If it wasn't so sad to see you all mangle the Word of God it would be down right hillarious seeing how you all try to make something that should be OBVIOUSLY contradictory into the same subject.

Standingfirm even himself admitted that these two subjects couldn't be speaking of the same thing or they contradicted each other. Then he reversed his decision, because if you admit that these aren't speaking of the same thing then you will be rode out of town with all sorts of garbage thrown at you.

Bottom line is it's easier to go with the flow than it is to rock the boat. So most folks are "comfortable" continuing to believe what they believe whether it goes along with what the Scriptures teach or not. Sad. But true! :tear:

HWIT,

Why are you lying about what I said? I showed you through Scripture where they belief is coupled with confession...even using the Words that Jesus Himself spoke.

Are you that blind? Confession and belief are coupled together. Faith without works is dead, being alone. You just don't get it, do you?

 

[HisWordIsTruth]

Why are you lying about what I said?

I'm not lying about what you said. Do I really need to go find the quote to refresh your memory where you said that if "believe" alone was true that it "flies in the face of the rest of Scripture". I have acurately relayed what you said.

I showed you through Scripture where they belief is coupled with confession

You are right they are "coupled". They are NOT the SAME THING. That's why ONCE AGAIN the statements in Acts 16:30-31 and Eph. 2:8-9 can not be speaking of the same thing as Romans 10:9. Those are contradictory statements NOT complimentary statements if the subjects are the same.

But since we are never going to get past this point let me ask you why you and others pick and chose what you add to believe? You insert repentance and confession and fruit bearing without a blink of the eye, yet you totally ignore what the Scripture says in Mark 16 regarding baptism.

And this again shows you all that you all are not really interested in what the Scripture says, but in furthering your own traditions.

Here's what the Bible SAYS in Mark 16: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Why is it that you folks don't include baptism in your equation? Scripture clearly says that believing is coupled with baptism just as much as believing is coulped with confession in Romans 10:9.

Yet you all completely gloss over this one .

 

[Revmitchell]

You are right they are "coupled". They are NOT the SAME THING. That's why ONCE AGAIN the statements in Acts 16:30-31 and Eph. 2:8-9 can not be speaking of the same thing as Romans 10:9. Those are contradictory statements NOT complimentary statements if the subjects are the same.

.

More ME heresy:BangHead:

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Faith without works is dead, being alone.

If you believe in Christ, but never confess with your mouth, never have an outward show of that belief, that belief is dead and not a saving faith.

Confession is necessary for Salvation.

I wonder why no Moderator's or Administrator's have come in? They seem to be sparse lately. Maybe that is why HWIT is so bold, knowing if they don't come in he can continue denying Scripture.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I'm not lying about what you said. Do I really need to go find the quote to refresh your memory where you said that if "believe" alone was true that it "flies in the face of the rest of Scripture". I have acurately relayed what you said.

You are right they are "coupled". They are NOT the SAME THING. That's why ONCE AGAIN the statements in Acts 16:30-31 and Eph. 2:8-9 can not be speaking of the same thing as Romans 10:9. Those are contradictory statements NOT complimentary statements if the subjects are the same.

But since we are never going to get past this point let me ask you why you and others pick and chose what you add to believe? You insert repentance and confession and fruit bearing without a blink of the eye, yet you totally ignore what the Scripture says in Mark 16 regarding baptism.

And this again shows you all that you all are not really interested in what the Scripture says, but in furthering your own traditions.

Here's what the Bible SAYS in Mark 16: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Why is it that you folks don't include baptism in your equation? Scripture clearly says that believing is coupled with baptism just as much as believing is coulped with confession in Romans 10:9.

Yet you all completely gloss over this one .

The Baptism Jesus spoke of in Mark was the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. And it stands to reason that if one is saved, one is baptized in the Spirit... after all, from the moment they believe, they are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.

There is a belief that is not coupled with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. That is a belief in which the person believes the Word, but is so ashamed to confess Christ before men or he does not turn from his sin but rather embraces it and continues in it, that his belief is dead.

 

[HisWordIsTruth]

More ME heresy

Revmitchell you sound like squawking parrot that has only been taught to say one thing. You keep bringing up this "heresy" stuff yet not once have you taken the time to share how these things "can" be speaking of the same thing. Again as webdog has said the silence speaks volumes.

 

[Revmitchell]

Again as webdog has said the silence speaks volumes.

umm...Webdog was speaking to you. :BangHead:

 

[HisWordIsTruth]

If you believe in Christ, but never confess with your mouth, never have an outward show of that belief, that belief is dead and not a saving faith.

BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus and YOU WILL BE SAVED. Nothing in there about confessing with your mouth. You keep accusing me of denying Scripture but with every post you deny the truth of Acts 16:30-31 and Eph. 2:8-9 as if they didn't even exist.

For by grace you HAVE BEEN SAVED through FAITH. Again Paul says this salvation was COMPLETE. And yet there was NOTHING mentioned of confession or repentance or anthing else.

You know I at least repsect webdog because he tries to make these messages mesh, by saying all of these things are believing. You folks don't even make an attempt you just continue with personal attacks and accusations.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Paul said confession and belief is necessary for Salvation

Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

If you would just answer the questions asked of you honestly, the accusations would stop.

 

[HisWordIsTruth]

The Baptism Jesus spoke of in Mark was the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Well unfortunately for you that is NOT what Scripture SAYS.

Let me repeat again what is actually said:

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

Says nothing of the baptism of the Spirit. And it certainly doesn't say he who believes will be baptized. That is the nonsense that revmitchell tried to use a while back when he said that those that believe will confess. It didn't hold water there and it doesn't here either.

I am reminded again of Linda's post regarding mental gymnastics. It doesn't say what you say, but somehow we are supposed to believe you instead of what is said. If that's not mental gymnastics I don't know what is.

At every turn standingfirm I find you arguing against what the Text actually says.

 

[HisWordIsTruth]

Paul said confession and belief is necessary for Salvation

Then please explain why that was left out of Acts 16:30-31 and Eph. 2:8-9 because it is NOT there.

 

[Revmitchell]

I am reminded again of Linda's post regarding mental gymnastics. It doesn't say what you say, but somehow we are supposed to believe you instead of what is said. If that's not mental gymnastics I don't know what is.

Again. the mental gymnastics she was refering to was yours.:BangHead: :laugh:

 

[Amy.G]

Can one truly believe without it coming from the heart?

"Believe in your heart"..




Can one truly believe if they're not willing to confess? (acknowledged the truth of the gospel)

"Confess with your mouth".


It's all part of faith. The two verses (Eph. and Romans) do not contradict each other, they compliment each other.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Well unfortunately for you that is NOT what Scripture SAYS.

Let me repeat again what is actually said:

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

Says nothing of the baptism of the Spirit. And it certainly doesn't say he who believes will be baptized. That is the nonsense that revmitchell tried to use a while back when he said that those that believe will confess. It didn't hold water there and it doesn't here either.

I am reminded again of Linda's post regarding mental gymnastics. It doesn't say what you say, but somehow we are supposed to believe you instead of what is said. If that's not mental gymnastics I don't know what is.

At every turn standingfirm I find you arguing against what the Text actually says.

If it was baptism by water, then Jesus either lied in that verse, or He lied to the thief on the cross when He told him 'This day thou shalt be with me in Paradise.'

It cannot be water Baptism for the thief did not come down off the cross to get Baptized.

It can only be referring to the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Can one truly believe without it coming from the heart?

"Believe in your heart"..




Can one truly believe if they're not willing to confess? (acknowledged the truth of the gospel)

"Confess with your mouth".


It's all part of faith. The two verses (Eph. and Romans) do not contradict each other, they compliment each other.

Exactly! Reminds me of Jesus' Words:

Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh.