Guns and People

[glazer1972]

If the facts are wrong then it fails as a good argument. Take it any way you want. I'll try not to give you any more constructive criticism in the future. Just so you know.

 

[Monster]

And if I remember correctly, you are going to be furious with me a second time because I am here to help and fighting with you, glazer or somebody else will help noone, so this will be a short exchange, ending, on my part, with this post to you.

You, ignoring context, accuse me of the same crime and then, putting words, unuttered, into my posts, accuse me of telling somebody they are lost in this string... that is not only not true, it's a fabircated tell, a.k.a. a lie.

Now, you, I have no doubt been teaching something about twenty-four years longer than I have taught the scriptures, there are many millions of teachers but not so many that teach the infallible scriptures as the Word of God. That being said, this is just another leg of the "Kill The Messenger" movement in this string, started with glazers posts.

Your really not on topic.






Without need for further comment and restraining the natural man's instincts to flail back, good day, sir.

Right on brother!

Keep to your monologue then and God bless ya'.

 

[HAMel]

We defend our President...with guns.
We defend our Congressmen...with guns.
We defend our Governors...with guns.
We defend our celebrities...with guns.
We defend our sporting events...with guns.
We defend our jewelry stores...with guns.
We defend our banks...with guns.
We defend our office buildings...with guns.
We defend our factories...with guns.
We defend our courts...with guns.

We defend our children...with a sign that reads;

"THIS IS A GUN FREE ZONE"

 

[Bob Alkire]

We defend our President...with guns.
We defend our Congressmen...with guns.
We defend our Governors...with guns.
We defend our celebrities...with guns.
We defend our sporting events...with guns.
We defend our jewelry stores...with guns.
We defend our banks...with guns.
We defend our office buildings...with guns.
We defend our factories...with guns.
We defend our courts...with guns.

We defend our children...with a sign that reads;

"THIS IS A GUN FREE ZONE"

Well said, my friend!!!

 

[th1bill]

Fair viewpoint, but the guy in China didn't kill anyone. http://www.thejournal.ie/22-students-stabbed-china-716792-Dec2012/

I've been hashing this over and over and I believe your view point and you are viewing this from a skewed angle. The children the Newtown shooter killed are much better off than the children hacked with the hatchet in China.

Having grown up in a severly disfunctional household I still awake in a cold sweat, not just from finding dead friends in 'Nam but also from events like seeing my birth father pound my mom into submission in a drunken rage at the end of the dark hallway. The little people of Newtown had not reched the age of responsibility and are in Heaven with Jesus. The witnesses to both incidents and particularly the hatcheted children will deal with PTSD their entire lives.

 

[nodak]

Just a thought from a gun lover and hunter:

I don't need assault weapons, semi automatics, or high capacity clips to hunt. Most places those are banned for hunting anyway.

We may need armed guards in schools, malls, etc, but please for heaven's sake don't just assume everyone packing heat has the brain power to protect the innocents.

More likely some of the "idjit" variety would kill more innocent bystanders than the thorough going bad guy would.

 

[Monster]

I've been hashing this over and over and I believe your view point and you are viewing this from a skewed angle. The children the Newtown shooter killed are much better off than the children hacked with the hatchet in China.

Having grown up in a severly disfunctional household I still awake in a cold sweat, not just from finding dead friends in 'Nam but also from events like seeing my birth father pound my mom into submission in a drunken rage at the end of the dark hallway. The little people of Newtown had not reched the age of responsibility and are in Heaven with Jesus. The witnesses to both incidents and particularly the hatcheted children will deal with PTSD their entire lives.

I wonder if the families, particularly the parents of the Newton children would agree with your view point. <--- pure rhetoric on my part.

I doubt there's a sane parent in the sane world that would rather bury their child than help them deal with injuries and disfigurements, both of which can be lived with and in many cases, overcome.

PTSD can be dealt with, lived with and in many case, overcome, where as death is final.

Seek help.

 

[Monster]

I've been hashing this over and over and I believe your view point and you are viewing this from a skewed angle. The children the Newtown shooter killed are much better off than the children hacked with the hatchet in China.

Having grown up in a severly disfunctional household I still awake in a cold sweat, not just from finding dead friends in 'Nam but also from events like seeing my birth father pound my mom into submission in a drunken rage at the end of the dark hallway. The little people of Newtown had not reched the age of responsibility and are in Heaven with Jesus. The witnesses to both incidents and particularly the hatcheted children will deal with PTSD their entire lives.

Also, this is very similar "logic" to that of people who justify some abortions. Why bring a child into the world that might have a hard life or that might be unwanted?

Not a perfect analogy but close enough to be sickening. Sorry to be so harsh today. There are times my iron needs sharpening too.

 

[th1bill]

I wonder if the families, particularly the parents of the Newton children would agree with your view point. <--- pure rhetoric on my part.

I doubt there's a sane parent in the sane world that would rather bury their child than help them deal with injuries and disfigurements, both of which can be lived with and in many cases, overcome.

PTSD can be dealt with, lived with and in many case, overcome, where as death is final.

Seek help.

Monster,
this is a Baptist Forum and therefore it is reasonable to assume that you are, at least, calling yourself a Christian. And if you are a God fearing, bought by the blood of Jesus on the cross Christian you know that what you have just said is of, by and for the World, and it ain't true! Those children in the Newtown slaughter are not dead and they will never be dead!

Further more, do you have PTSD?

 

[th1bill]

Also, this is very similar "logic" to that of people who justify some abortions. Why bring a child into the world that might have a hard life or that might be unwanted?

Not a perfect analogy but close enough to be sickening. Sorry to be so harsh today. There are times my iron needs sharpening too.

I will, certainly, not argue that your iron needs sharpening, it does. The Kingdom of God is not some future event, it is right now and we are faced with a choice. We can live the Kingdom Life and be hated by the World or we can live just like them and be loved for a season.

When I thought about the answer to C4 I consider reactionsfor a good while because I am aware that better than 98% of the Church Membership is not saved and are only playing Church. I'm stepping out on speculation for this one but of the, slightly, less than 2% that are saved, I'll put a dolloar against a donut that less than 25% of them have read their Bible through more than once and most of that group have not read the entire Bible once.

And if a person is not fully commited to God then my statement about the complete safety of those 20 chilodren makes no logical sense at all. But the truth is that the "death" we are familiar with is nothing of the sort, it is a transitioning from the natural into the Spiritual World. There, if we have not sold out to God here, we find the true death... the never ending death.

I understand tGod as I am. However, that will have nothing to do with the safety of their lovely little people.

 

[North Carolina Tentmaker]

What was the topic again?

 

[Bronconagurski]

Just a thought from a gun lover and hunter:

I don't need assault weapons, semi automatics, or high capacity clips to hunt. Most places those are banned for hunting anyway.

We may need armed guards in schools, malls, etc, but please for heaven's sake don't just assume everyone packing heat has the brain power to protect the innocents.

More likely some of the "idjit" variety would kill more innocent bystanders than the thorough going bad guy would.

You must live in the wrong place. I know many places to hunt. One of the things the NRA is big on is gun education. The people that guard the president are no smarter than I am. If I see a bad guy shooting good guys, I know who to shoot.

 

[North Carolina Tentmaker]

Just a thought from a gun lover and hunter:

I don't need assault weapons, semi automatics, or high capacity clips to hunt. Most places those are banned for hunting anyway.

I know this has been mentioned many times but I want to say again, the 2nd amendment and hunting are two completely different issues.

There is no "right to hunt" in the constitution. Hunting has been prohibited and controlled many times and in many ways. Seasons, bag limits, and even outright bans are completely legal. Hunting is a smart management choice when it comes to game populations and without it most of our deer, turkeys, and other species would be endangered. But controlling hunting is a key to keeping healthy populations.

The right to bear arms is in the constitution and has nothing to do with hunting and everything to do with protection of our lives and liberty.

 

[Bronconagurski]

I know this has been mentioned many times but I want to say again, the 2nd amendment and hunting are two completely different issues.

There is no "right to hunt" in the constitution. Hunting has been prohibited and controlled many times and in many ways. Seasons, bag limits, and even outright bans are completely legal. Hunting is a smart management choice when it comes to game populations and without it most of our deer, turkeys, and other species would be endangered. But controlling hunting is a key to keeping healthy populations.

The right to bear arms is in the constitution and has nothing to do with hunting and everything to do with protection of our lives and liberty.

I hear you brother, good point. Now we have to figure out how to stop all the Presidential attacks on our Constitution, something he has sworn to defend, but seems determined to destroy. He has shown he has no honor by not taking responsibility for the loss of American lives that were hung out to dry, and that is a slap in the face to all of us who have, and are serving honorably in the service for this country. I can't adequately describe how despicable it is to me.

 

[Monster]

Monster,
this is a Baptist Forum and therefore it is reasonable to assume that you are, at least, calling yourself a Christian. And if you are a God fearing, bought by the blood of Jesus on the cross Christian you know that what you have just said is of, by and for the World, and it ain't true! Those children in the Newtown slaughter are not dead and they will never be dead!

Further more, do you have PTSD?

By all means, continue to question or doubt my salvation condition and Christian standing. It's against board rules, you've done the same before and will do so again, I am sure. That certainly doesn't bother me or change my eternal position. Also, feel free to assume that you have the right and wrong definitions of death.

The fact that I disagree with you does not equate to my eternal damnation either.

Define PTSD the way you understand it. I'll be happy to answer with details as long as we're working from the same baseline. Otherwise, I'll avoid that blind alley.

 

[Monster]

I will, certainly, not argue that your iron needs sharpening, it does. The Kingdom of God is not some future event, it is right now and we are faced with a choice. We can live the Kingdom Life and be hated by the World or we can live just like them and be loved for a season.

When I thought about the answer to C4 I consider reactionsfor a good while because I am aware that better than 98% of the Church Membership is not saved and are only playing Church. I'm stepping out on speculation for this one but of the, slightly, less than 2% that are saved, I'll put a dolloar against a donut that less than 25% of them have read their Bible through more than once and most of that group have not read the entire Bible once.

And if a person is not fully commited to God then my statement about the complete safety of those 20 chilodren makes no logical sense at all. But the truth is that the "death" we are familiar with is nothing of the sort, it is a transitioning from the natural into the Spiritual World. There, if we have not sold out to God here, we find the true death... the never ending death.

I understand tGod as I am. However, that will have nothing to do with the safety of their lovely little people.

I'm happy to accept that all twenty of those children are or may be in eternity with God. I trust in God as the ultimate judge of the soul.

Again, I'll emphasize the point that I believe that the parents of those deceased would probably argue with your point that; "The children the Newtown shooter killed are much better off than the children hacked with the hatchet in China."

Do you also believe that death in hell is as eternal as life in God's prescience is?

As to your "speculation" about the numbers of saved, only 2% or less than;

In my home church, it's membership of about 400, (active is all I'll concern myself with here) your formula would allow for only our four pastors and maybe three of their four wives to be saved. That small number from the entire body. None of their children, grandchildren, extended families, no one else if the statistics are correct. So that must assume that those saved shepherds of God are absolutely ineffective at performing their roles in the Great Commission. I'm going out on a limb here and hoping that my home church is a statistical anomaly and will say that maybe a whopping 4% (that's a 100% increase) were saved, that would mean realistically the fundamentalist church down the road had 0% saved. Or pick another somewhere else.

All that to say that I strongly disagree with your stats. The dimensions of the New Heaven alone (I have my own personal mansion in there somewhere) evidence a vast, unimaginable multitude that would far exceed any that your numbers, speculative or not, give the lie to.

 

[Monster]

What was the topic again?

About that yeah;

Wayne LaPierre said it best, "The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun."

And then what you said, I absolutely agree with,

"I know this has been mentioned many times but I want to say again, the 2nd amendment and hunting are two completely different issues.

There is no "right to hunt" in the constitution. Hunting has been prohibited and controlled many times and in many ways. Seasons, bag limits, and even outright bans are completely legal. Hunting is a smart management choice when it comes to game populations and without it most of our deer, turkeys, and other species would be endangered. But controlling hunting is a key to keeping healthy populations.

The right to bear arms is in the constitution and has nothing to do with hunting and everything to do with protection of our lives and liberty."


But all of that is shouting down the well when fascist tyrants run our bureaucracies. This definitely isn't the same country that I was born in.

 

[nodak]

No shortage of locations to hunt here either, but you cannot hunt with the guns being discussed for control.

Here it is the hunters raising a ruckus over taking them away from them, hence the hunting comment.

We have a lot of people carrying guns here. You need a permit to conceal it, but you do see people down at the filling station with a gun on their hip.

What I am saying is that before we all just go out armed to the teeth and think that makes us safe, we better be well prepared to insist on meaningful education of those armed people.

My former son in law was a cop. Cannot tell you how often people "think" they could handle a situation, then panic like Barney Fife when it comes time to actually use a gun.

 

[th1bill]

By all means, continue to question or doubt my salvation condition and Christian standing. It's against board rules, you've done the same before and will do so again, I am sure. That certainly doesn't bother me or change my eternal position. Also, feel free to assume that you have the right and wrong definitions of death.

The fact that I disagree with you does not equate to my eternal damnation either.

Define PTSD the way you understand it. I'll be happy to answer with details as long as we're working from the same baseline. Otherwise, I'll avoid that blind alley.

I don't know why you would enter into a conversational exchange with me since you, so, dislike the truth. And once more, it is you that calls your salvation into question as you build your straw man to ride down. I listed the logical assumptions I make of all the people including the moderators and with the understanding that the same assumptions apply to me.

Disagreeing with me condems nobody, disagreeing with scripture will do that. Here, with the children, you are fighting Baptist Theology with your uncertainty of the destination of the children in Eternity. And with your projected idea of the finality of the natural death by the failure to recognise the fact that they did not die and are not in Hell, you are in conflict with the Word of God.


Bible Study ToolsOur LibraryConcordancesNave's Topical BibleLife
Life

Life [E]

MISCELLANY OF MINOR SUB-TOPICS
Breath of
Genesis 2:7
Called SPIRIT OF GOD
Job 27:3
Tree of
Genesis 2:9 ; Genesis 3:22 Genesis 3:24 ; Proverbs 3:18 ; 13:12 ; Revelation 2:7

(SACREDNESS OF, an inference from what is taught in the law concerning murder)
See HOMICIDE
Long life promised to obedient children
Exodus 20:12 ; Deuteronomy 5:16
To those who keep the commandments
Deuteronomy 4:40 ; 22:7
Vanity of
Ecclesiastes 1 ; 2 ; 3 ; 4 ; 5 ; 6 ; 7
Hated
Ecclesiastes 2:17
To be hated for Christs sake
Luke 14:26
What can a man give in exchange for
Matthew 16:26 ; Mark 8:37
The one who loses it will save it
Matthew 10:39 ; Matthew 16:25 Matthew 16:26 ; Luke 9:24 ; John 12:25
Weary of
Job
Job 3 ; 7:1-3 ; 10:18-20
Jeremiah
Jeremiah 20:14-18
Elijah
1 Kings 19:1-8
Jonah
Jonah 4:8 Jonah 4:9
See SUICIDE
Life of Christ, a ransom
Matthew 20:28 ; Mark 10:45 ; 1 Timothy 2:6
See SPIRITUAL, below

BREVITY AND UNCERTAINTY OF
Genesis 18:27 ; 47:9 ; 1 Samuel 20:3 ; 2 Samuel 14:14 ; 1 Chronicles 29:15 ; Job 4:19-21 ; Job 7:6-10 Job 7:17 ; 8:9 ; Job 9:25 Job 9:26 ; Job 10:9 Job 10:20 Job 10:21 ; Job 13:12 Job 13:25 Job 13:28 ; Job 14:1 Job 14:2 ; 17:1 ; Psalms 22:29 ; Psalms 39:4-6 Psalms 39:11 ; 78:39 ; Psalms 89:47 Psalms 89:48 ; Psalms 90:3 Psalms 90:5 Psalms 90:6 Psalms 90:9 Psalms 90:10 ; 102:11 ; 103:14-16 ; Psalms 144:3 Psalms 144:4 ; 146:4 ; Proverbs 27:1 ; Ecclesiastes 1:4 ; 6:12 ; Isaiah 2:22 ; 38:12 ; Isaiah 40:6 Isaiah 40:7 Isaiah 40:24 ; 50:9 ; Isaiah 51:8 Isaiah 51:12 ; 64:6 ; James 1:10 James 1:11 ; 4:14 ; 1 Peter 1:24
See DEATH

EVERLASTING
Psalms 21:4 ; 121:8 ; 133:3 ; Isaiah 25:8 ; Daniel 12:2 ; Matthew 19:16-21 Matthew 19:29 ; 25:46 ; Mark 10:30 ; Luke 18:18 Luke 18:30 ; 20:36 ; John 3:14-16 ; 4:14 ; John 5:24 John 5:25 John 5:29 John 5:39 ; John 6:27 John 6:40 John 6:47 John 6:50-58 John 6:68 ; John 10:10 John 10:27 John 10:28 ; John 12:25 John 12:50 ; John 17:2 John 17:3 ; Acts 13:46 Acts 13:48 ; Romans 2:7 ; 5:21 ; Romans 6:22 Romans 6:23 ; 1 Corinthians 15:53 1 Corinthians 15:54 ; 2 Corinthians 5:1 ; Galatians 6:8 ; 1 Timothy 1:16 ; 4:8 ; 1 Timothy 6:12 1 Timothy 6:19 ; 2 Timothy 1:10 ; Titus 1:2 ; 3:7 ; 1 John 2:25 ; 3:15 ; 1 John 5:11-13 1 John 5:20 ; Jude 1:21 ; Revelation 1:18
See IMMORTALITY

FROM GOD
Genesis 2:7 ; Deuteronomy 8:3 ; 30:20 ; Deuteronomy 32:39 Deuteronomy 32:40 ; 1 Samuel 2:6 ; Job 27:3 ; Job 34:14 Job 34:15 ; Psalms 22:29 ; 30:3 ; 68:20 ; 104:30 ; Ecclesiastes 12:7 ; Isaiah 38:16-20 ; Acts 17:25-28 ; Romans 4:17 ; 1 Timothy 6:13 ; James 4:15

LONG
See LONGEVITY

SPIRITUAL
John 3:3-16 ; John 5:24-26 John 5:40 ; John 6:27 John 6:33 John 6:35 John 6:40 John 6:47 ; 10:10 ; John 11:25 John 11:26 ; 14:6 ; John 17:2 John 17:3 ; 20:31 ; Romans 6:4 Romans 6:5 Romans 6:8 Romans 6:11 Romans 6:13 Romans 6:22 Romans 6:23 ; 8:10 ; 1 John 1:1 1 John 1:2

indicates this entry was also found in Baker's Evangelical Dictionary
[E] indicates this entry was also found in Easton's Bible Dictionary
Bibliography Information

Nave, Orville J. "Entry for 'Life'". "Nave's Topical Bible". . 1896.

 

[th1bill]

Now Monster,
PTSD, my question was simple but I will make it simpler, "Have you been diagnosed with PTSD?" How I define it or how you define it are of no concern.