Hal Lindsey a False Prophet?

[Ed Edwards]

Amen, Brother Bro Tony -- Preach it!

Calvibaptist: // Have you ever wondered why
the church for 2,000 years never knew about
a so-called Rapture until a group of Brethren
assemblies began listening to a woman
prophet in the mid-1800's? That's where
the view originated.//

This is an interesting statement invented by Dave MacPherson
in the mid-70s. I was a Christian for 20 years before I ever heard
the statement.

2 Thessalonians 4:17 (HCSB = Christian Standard Bible
/Holman, 2003/ ):

Then we who are still alive will be caught up together
with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air;
and so we will always be with the Lord.

Here is the testimony of 1500 years:

2 Thessalonians 4:17 The Latin Vulgate, 476AD):

deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis
in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus

simul = together
rapiemur = caught up

'Rapiemur' is a form consistant with the sentence of
a word which was transliaterated into English as 'rapture'.

The term 'Rapture' comes from the Bible where it has been
for over 1500 years, testimony to to the falseness of the
statement posted at the top of this post. OF course,
I suppose if you define 'rapture' in the sentence other
than how the bible defines it, one might make the statement
at the top true.

 

[johnp.]

Hello Ed Edwards.

Neither the NIV or KJV have the word rapture in them.

'Rapiemur' is a form consistant with the sentence of a word which was transliaterated into English as 'rapture'.

Why isn't it in the two above translation? Is it used in any English translation, I would be interested to know?

'caught up together' I believe in. I don't like the word rapture.

john.

 

[Calvibaptist]

Thank you all for quoting Scripture to me that I already know. As I have said, from these same Scriptures, the church taught for 2,000 years that they referred to Christ's second coming. It was not until the mid-1800's that a small segment of the church (the Brethren movement) began to say that they referred to a special catching up of the church 7 years before Christ's second coming and called this teaching "the Rapture."

I do not deny that these Scriptures exist. I just don't see how they necessitate a teaching of a Pre-Tribulation rapture, followed by a 7-year Tribulation, then another resurrection (the 1st and a half resurrection if your a Dispensationalist) of Tribulation saints and the Old Testament saints, followed by a Millenium, followed by the second ressurection at the end of the millenium.

Revelation says there are two resurrections: the resurrection of the righteous and the resurrection of the wicked. Those who take part in the first resurrection cannot be touched by the second death. So what about those at the end of the tribulation? Where do we find a verse that says there are three resurrections? At the most, at this point I buy a post-tribulation rapture. That would actually fit the entirety of the verses most. But a pre-tribulation rapture is forced into the verses because of a theological system.

 

[johnp.]

No doctrine should be brought forth from Revelation. Revelation must be explained using the other books.

MT 13:47 "Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. 48 When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. 49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50 and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
51 "Have you understood all these things?" Jesus asked. "Yes," they replied.

MT 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

There is only one resurrection. Just too many scriptures saying the good and the bad will rise at one time.

john.

 

[Bro Tony]

No doctrine should be brought forth from Revelation. Revelation must be explained using the other books.

Here is where you and I clearly see things differently John. As well as your tendency to spiritualize the meaning of being "caught up". I see you quote from the preterist perspective, so I understand why you do this with Paul's terms and your approach to Revelation. I understand----I dont agree with it. I will approach the Scripture from the Apostle's perspective rather than from a pre-conceived theology such as preterism. He said----

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 2 Timothy 3:16

Revelation is Scripture and Paul says it is profitable for doctrine. So I will derive my doctrine from the Book of Revelation and the 65 other books of the Bible.

Bro Tony

 

[johnp.]

Hello Bro Tony.

I don't believe the prophecies are already accomplished. I had a quick search on the web for info on the Jesuit and after finding several sources supporting what I had read I settled on that site. It was just a matter of history. I don't think, from the desciption of preterism in the dictionary, that I am a preterist. The anti-Christ must come before Christ.

I don't see why you say I spiritualise the catching up as I believe it is in the flesh that we will be.

I will approach the Scripture from the Apostle's perspective rather than from a pre-conceived theology such as preterism.

And right to. I didn't mean to denigrate scripture but if a doctrine is brought forth which conflicts with the rest of the book then it should not be entertained. I accept your correction.

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 2 Timothy 3:16

Of course I believe that I'm a Calvinist.

I really have nothing to lose here as none of my doctrines are threatened in anyway by anything from the end of the book. That's why I haven't joined in the debate as such.

'and is profitable for doctrine' Of course but I am saying that if anyone comes up with two or three resurrections then they are flying in the face of many scriptures that indicate only one and that is not profitable.

The book is a minefield for anyone let alone for those who want to know the future. HaHa! I will know the anti-Christ when he arrives and then a lot of the book will be self-explanatory. Otherwise I might end up with London underground train maps like Me4Him and I might not be here to use them.

When Jesus returns it's over.

How's that?

john.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Johnp.: //'caught up together' I believe in. I don't like the word rapture.//

Then mark me down as a pretribulation 'caught up together'ist.

Johnp.: //Just too many scriptures saying the good and
the bad will rise at one time.//

Feel free to list them.

Johnp.: //There is only one resurrection.//

------------------------------------
\o/ Glory to the Lord \o/

\o/ Praise be to Jesus \o/

Five Resurrections
Found in the Holy Bible
Compared and Contrasted

The Lord God is a resurrecting God.

Definitions:

New Testament: God's contract on goy
Old Testament: God's contract on Yisrael
Resurrection: a person who was dead is alive
Saint: a person on God's list (AKA: Book of Life)
Tribulation: AKA: The Time of Jacob's Trouble (Jeremiah 30:4-7);
--Yisrael passing under the rod (Ezekiel 20:34-3;
--Melting Pot (Ezekiel 22:19-22);
--Time of Trouble (Daniel 12:1); etc.
Resurrection: a person who was dead is alive
goy - Yisraeli term for gentiles (probably slightly derogotory)
Yisrael - Transliteration of the Hebrew term for "Israel" into English.

How to get on God's list:

Romans 10:9 (KJV): That if thou
shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt
believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from
the dead, thou shalt be saved.


1. Resurrection of Jesus
WHO: Jesus
WHEN: 33AD
WHERE: Jerusalem
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal; because of the
resurrection of Jesus, all the other resurrections
are possible
References: Matthew 28:6, Mark 16:6, Luke 24:6-8


2. Resurrection of some Old Testament Saints
WHO: Some of those who died before Jesus believeing God, especially
those who believed in God's Messiah
WHEN: 33AD
WHERE: mostly in Jerusalem
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal

3. Resurrection of the New Testament Saints
WHO: Church age (AKA: times of the Gentiles) Saints; balance
of the Old Testament Saints
WHEN: Some date after 3 Sept 2005;
at the end of the Church Age; at the beginning of
the Tribulation
WHERE: Worldwide
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal;
this resurrection is followed in but a
moment by the translation of the living
saints into a glorified heavenly body like
that of Jesus
References: 1 Corinthians 15:52, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

4. Resurrection of the Tribulation Saints
WHO: Those beheaded for faith in Jesus; those
who reject the Mark of the Beast
WHEN: at the end of the Tribulation; at the
beginning of the 1,000-year reign of Jesus
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal
References: Revelation 20:4-6,

5. Resurrection of the non-Saints
WHO: All those throughout time who have rejected Jesus
WHEN: At the close of the 1,000-year reign of Jesus;
at the beginning of eternity
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: i don't know, God does
HOW: i don't know, God does
WHAT: Raised to eternal shame & damnation
References: Revelation 20:12-15

NOTE: The delineation of the five revealed
resurrections above
does not preclude other resurrections. The Lord God
is a resurrecting God and His hand is not shortened
by his revelation to us or
by our understaning of His revelation to us.
For example: Two Witnesses shall
be resurrected in the middle of the Tribulation.

There is a pastoral picture of the four resurrections
for which the resurrection of Jesus was a precusor
(numbered here as above):

2. The First Fruits (Matthew 27:22-53)

3. The Harvest (1 Corinthians 15:51-54, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

4. The Gleanings (Revelation 7:14, 20:4)

5. The Tares (Matthew 13:28-30)

Sometimes the Holy Bible calls resurrections 2-4, the resurrections
of the just: The First Resurrection (because all the
resurrections of the just preceede the resurrection
of the unjust).

The following scriptures seem to imply a simultaneous
resurrection of the just and the wicked dead:
Daniel 12:2, John 5:28-29 (all resurrected
in the same hour), Acts 24:15. Revelation 20-4-6
cleary notes that the just are raised one day
(a 1,000 year long day) before the unjust.

CAUTION: The numbering scheme 1 to 5 above was arbitrarliy
assigned to enable the discussion. There is nothing
sacred or Biblical about this numbering scheme.

May Jesus our Savior and our Master be Praised!

Note that ressurrections #2 and #3 are accompanied
by a 'caught up together' of living saints.

--compilation by ed, incurable Jesus Phreaque
------------------------------------

 

[johnp.]

Hello Ed Edwards.

Five Resurrections.

The term 'Rapture' comes from the Bible where it has been for over 1500 years, testimony to to the falseness of the statement posted at the top of this post.

Why isn't it in the NIV & KJV translation? Is it used in any English translation, I would be interested to know?

At the close of the 1,000-year reign of Jesus;
at the beginning of eternity God is always Sovereign.

john.

 

[Bro Tony]

John,

Thank you for your response. I am glad you are not a preterist. You were the one who said that the catching up was the Lord raising his people up spiritually (on page 8), If I understood you wrong, my apologies. The word rapture may not be in the English translation, the concept is--look to the Scriptures I provided (in the same way the word Trinity is not in the English translation- the concept is all throughtout the Scripture). As to their being several resurrections---it seems to be a definition of terms. Jesus is the resurrection and His resurrection is always referred to as the "first resurrection" but as Paul said each in his own order----

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 1 Corinthians 15:20-24

The only other resurrection that differs is the second resurrection--that being the resurrection of the damned to stand before the Great White Throne and be cast into the lake of fire.

All who are in the first resurrection are blessed, all in the second are damned.

Bro Tony

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Calvibaptist:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Me4Him:
Have you ever stopped to consider "WHY" there is a "Rapture" of a certain group of people, in the first place,

but not "EVERYONE" who is going to be saved is included in that rapture, and "WHY" they are not included???

You can't understand "WHAT HAPPENS" until you understand "WHY IT HAPPENS"??

I really love the way you make statements with no Scriptural support, but make them as if they should be obvious to everyone. Have you ever wondered why the church for 2,000 years never knew about a so-called Rapture until a group of Brethren assemblies began listening to a woman prophet in the mid-1800's? That's where the view originated.

I used to believe in Pre-Tribulation Pre-millenialism. However, in having to defend my view against Post-millenialists, I had a hard time actually finding Scriptures that were clear on a rapture. I now have moved to Classical Pre-millenialism which has been around since the first century. I still see a literal millenium (it's hard for me to get around that). I just can't find a rapture. </font>[/QUOTE]Try this link, read the "entire link", then we'll discuss the rapture.

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3398.html

P.S. you won't find any "quotes" from any books written by man, only the "Bible".

 

[MillerShawn]

Hosea 10:3
Then they will say, “We have no king because we did not revere the LORD. But even if we had a king, what could he do for us?”

America, Why are you so focused on Ukraine??? #WheresCovid
Lol. Fools. You are bankrupt. You have no borders. Homeless are everywhere. You have no jobs. You have no supplies. Lol

America, you are Wretched, Miserable, Poor, Blind, & Naked.
America is Fallen.
Ichabod
Destroy Mystery Babylon America

Because America will not repent, America is divided. Because America is divided, there will be no peace. Because America has no peace, America will fall. You are political. You are not spiritual. You are carnal. You are not Sanctified. Republican Democrat are you not? Conservative Liberal are you not? GOD is Spirit. GOD Mocks You. One state is locked down. One state is not. You are broken for the world to see. Your Emperor Has No Clothes. Yet, you want Trump. Lol Stay divided. Lol Masked, Vaccinated, & Isolated; one by one you fall away.

 

[rsr]

Sixteen-year-old orphan thread is closed.