Some Rando
Member
This debate about "tavern music" seems somewhat strange to me. By "taverns" in the 16th-19th Centuries we should not necessarily assume seedy dives full of out-of-control drunks and women of ill repute. I am struck that John's links are all about "drinking songs" (whatever that means). Who said anything about rowdy drunkards and their "drinking songs"? Taverns were for hundreds of years the seat of town social life in many regards. Practically no one was a teetotaler, but, regardless, it was where everyone would gather to socialize and catch up on the day's news. Often, one copy of a newspaper or pamphlet (often Theological pamphlets) would be brought and everyone would read it, have it read to them, or have it posted.
Important socio-political issues of the day were discussed and debated. Food was served to hungry folk etc. Business was discussed. The U.S. Marine Corps was founded in a Tavern.
The notion that "tavern music" (or at least the common tunes) were adopted for hymnody should bother no one. Unlike the wealthy who could hire musicians, the average person rarely heard music they didn't play themselves. Taverns were one of the places where normal people heard music, at least instrumental music. That common musical styles or tunes were adopted and used for hymns is only natural. What else were they going to use? Madrigals? What music is it expected for normal people to relate to or sing? It was the music they were familiar with. The only reason I can imagine someone would resist this notion is that they are modern personal teetotalers and simply loathe the concept that there was ever a correlation. No one is, to my knowledge arguing that all hymns were adapted from commonly heard "tavern music". But, if, in your hymnal, you see "American folk tune" for music etc...It was likely played in and sung in taverns. So what?
To be certain, there was always a difference between secular and sacred music. But, prior to our modern hymns, average people often didn't sing sacred music. Professional musicians, paid choir members, monks, and nuns sang it. If you wanted normal people to sing hymns, why wouldn't you adapt the music they were familiar with to your sacred message? I would do the same.
Truth be told, neither side could prove or demonstrate that particular instruments or styles are either permitted or forbidden. The Bible simply does not spell out either case in any detail.
Also Jimmy Swaggart.
Important socio-political issues of the day were discussed and debated. Food was served to hungry folk etc. Business was discussed. The U.S. Marine Corps was founded in a Tavern.
The notion that "tavern music" (or at least the common tunes) were adopted for hymnody should bother no one. Unlike the wealthy who could hire musicians, the average person rarely heard music they didn't play themselves. Taverns were one of the places where normal people heard music, at least instrumental music. That common musical styles or tunes were adopted and used for hymns is only natural. What else were they going to use? Madrigals? What music is it expected for normal people to relate to or sing? It was the music they were familiar with. The only reason I can imagine someone would resist this notion is that they are modern personal teetotalers and simply loathe the concept that there was ever a correlation. No one is, to my knowledge arguing that all hymns were adapted from commonly heard "tavern music". But, if, in your hymnal, you see "American folk tune" for music etc...It was likely played in and sung in taverns. So what?
To be certain, there was always a difference between secular and sacred music. But, prior to our modern hymns, average people often didn't sing sacred music. Professional musicians, paid choir members, monks, and nuns sang it. If you wanted normal people to sing hymns, why wouldn't you adapt the music they were familiar with to your sacred message? I would do the same.
'Zactly.I may have said "tavern song" (although I did clarify I meant type of music and folk songs).
Have you ever heard the song "What Child is This?"? If so, did you know that the music is from a late 1500's folk songs called "Greensleeves"? Did you know that in England Greensleeves was a popular folk song often sung in taverns?
That is just one example.
By saying "tavern music" I do not mean "drinking music" but the music found in taverns. Taverns certainly included drinking but they were also social hubs. In other words, I mean popular songs at the time that were easily sung in a group setting, not "100 bottles of beer on the wall".
No, they don't. Precisely the opposite is the case. One would need to demonstrate that specific instruments or styles are verbotten and where. My guess is you are aware that you cannot do so and therefore wish to draw or adapt an arbitrary line somewhere and then shift the burden of proof.Anyone who takes the position that God approves of the use of all musical instruments and all kinds of instrumental music in corporate worship has the burden of proof of showing where the Scripture teaches us that is true.
Truth be told, neither side could prove or demonstrate that particular instruments or styles are either permitted or forbidden. The Bible simply does not spell out either case in any detail.
Bob Larson said so....But the Bible does not teach anywhere that only certain types of music and certain types of instruments are acceptable either.
The Bible does not teach anywhere that a paino is an acceptable instrument for worship, therefore it is unacceptable and ungodly.
The Bible does not teach anywhere that a focus on harmony in music (a Wrstern trait) is acceptable to God, therefore it is ungodly.
The Bible does not teach anywhere that we should have a choir, a music leader, a pulpit, a sanctuary, a baptism pool, etc. Therefore these are occult and unacceptable to God (by your logic).
Basically you are elevating your opinion to the level of God. If Scripture does not mention it then your opinion determines what God accepts.
I am asking why you belueve that rock music (without lyrics) is occult. There has to be a readon (other than the Bible does not mention paints, drums, guitars, electric keyboards, air conditioning, pews, etc).
Also Jimmy Swaggart.

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