Have the "gifts of the spirit" ceased?

Done. </font>[/QUOTE]I didn't get it!

MEE </font>[/QUOTE]I shall try again..

 

Done. </font>[/QUOTE]I didn't get it!

MEE </font>[/QUOTE]I shall try again.. </font>[/QUOTE]for those that wonder, we finally hooked up on AOL Instant Messenger.

 

Okay... I'll give you my scriptures to back my claims.

Peter was saying this was for EVERYONE

Now this Scripture here, is a 3 fold prophesy, It was a promise to the people of Isreal on the day of Pentecost. To the Apostles of Christ in the upper room. For today, during the age of grace, and for the Last days and the times spoken of in the book of Revelation. I ask you, DHK, Is God an Indian Giver??? Would he say. "I will pour out my Spirit on ALL Flesh", and then only Distribute the Holy Spirit gifts to only 12 people? It makes no sense. You see, the gifts were NOT only given to the 12 apostles, But the Apostles LAID HANDS on others and THEY RECIEVED the HOLY SPIRIT and THOSE PEOPLE LAID HANDS ON OTHERS, and so on and so forth. It is recorded in history of the gifts being passed on, during the early Church. Never once was it recorded of the gifts ever ceasing, Not in cannonized Scripture. Just in Uninspired writings by mere men. So people just decided that because they had an english Bible that they didn't need the Gifts any longer, It didn't mean that they were correct in thier assumptions. Not only that, why would God only give his gifts to select group of people and no one else? Explain that Logic?

-SeekingAfterHim

 

I love this kind of statement, "I don't want to argue or debate, I only want to set you all right."

 

Peter was saying this was for EVERYONE</font>[/QUOTE]No argument. The promise--SALVATION--is for everyone now, not just the Jews. The promise refers to salvation. It refers back to verse 38--the remission of sins. The promise of having one's sins forgiven through salvation.

You are the one with the assumptions here. There are not three time periods in the Scripture referred to, but only two. There was the Day of Pentecost, and there will be signs and wonders during the end times--The Tribulation Period to be specific.
God did pour his spirit out on the Day of Pentecost in verses 28 and 29.
But the sun didn't turn to darkness, and the moon didn't turn to blood. Those events will take place when God pours out his wrath upon this world in the Tribulation Period. That Scripture says nothing about spiritual gifts continuing past the days of the Apostles.

God never said: "I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh of all time. He did not say that. He was speaking of one particular time period.
You said: Never once is it ever recorded of the gifts ever ceasing."

1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

A proper exegesis of Scripture shows us that these gifts ceased when the canon of Scripture was complete--when that which is perfect (the Word of God) was come--then that which was in part (the spiritual gifts) were done away--ceased.

BTW, it has nothing to do with the English language. It all happened when the Greek canon of our Scripture was completed, near the end of the first century. To strengthen that position is history itself. History bears witness to the fact that tongues had already ceased by the end of the first century.
The spiritual gifts were given for definite reasons, none of which are applicable today. That is why they were given to a "select group of people," as you put it. Consider:

1. They were given as a sign to the unbelieving Jews--the sign to authenticate the message of the gospel that it was from God. It was fulfillment of prophecy (1Cor.14:21,22).

2. They were given to authenticate the Apostles themselves. The signs and wonders (sign gifts) that the Apostles performed were one of the identifying marks of an Apostle.

3. They were given because the New Testament was not yet complete. It was God's way of giving the early first century church the revelation that they needed before they had the entire Word of God. Thus the gifts of tongues, prophecy, and revelatory knowledge. We have the entire Word of God, thus these gifts have no function in todays church.

On all three counts:
There are no unbelieving Jews that need a sign,
There are no Apostles that need authenticating,
The New Testament is completed,
And thus for all these reasons--the gifts have ceased. They have fulfilled their function.
DHK

 

The words,"for unbelieving Jews" is not in scripture that was quoted.

Could someone expound on that some more please?

Tam

 

Since the gifts and callings of God are without repentance , God would violate his own character to quit giving the gift that is to you , your children and to them that are afar off as many as the Lord our God shall call.
If The Lord quits calling those to Him to be saved then gifts would cease.

 

Well I'd like to know too. How about it? Any takers?
How does Acts 2:39 say that the Holy Ghost is for "the unbeliving Jew" only? Acts 2:5-11 seems to say there was more than Jewish people there? I also don't see that its talking about salvation only, but the gift of the Holy Ghost too. Acually the way I read verse 38 and ye shall recive the gift of the Holy Ghost. I took that as the promise that we would recive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Music4Him

 

1 Corinthians 14:21-22 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

I should be able just to post these two verses, and say: "here it is--unbelieving Jews--can't you see it?
Nevertheless I will give you an explanation. Again.
Verse 21 is a quote from Isaiah 28:11,12, though not word for word.

Isaiah 28:11-12 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

Who is "this people?" The same phrase is used both in Isaiah 28:11 and in 1Cor.14:21. Who was Isaiah addressing? Look at verse 14:

Isaiah 28:14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.

He was addressing the rulers of Jerusalem, thus the leaders of the nation of Israel. Jerusalem was the capital of Israel. Isaiah was addressing the Jews. The phrase "this people" refers to the Jews in both verses: Isaiah and in 1Cor.14:21.
Paul said distinctly that with men of other tongues would God speak to the Israelites, and yet they would not hear. It was a prophecy being fulfilled right before their eyes. If you follow Isaiah 28, you find that the consequence for their unbelief (as it always is) is judgement.

1Cor. 14:22 starts out with the word "wherefore."
Here's a rule of thumb (not original with me).
Whenver you see a wherefore or therefore, look before to see why for the wherefore is there for. Did you get that?

In other words the wherefore of verse 22 connects verse 22 with verse 21. That makes it simple.

"Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not."
--Tongues are for a sign. We have already established that. They are a sign for the Jews. That was the entire point of verse 21. That's why Paul quoted from Isaiah. Yet they didn't believe the sign of tongues anyway. God gave them a sign and they still didn't believe. Wherefore tongues are for a sign. A sign for who--not for the believer--but for the Jew--the unbelieving Jew. It was a sign to the unbelievers. In context the unbelievers are Jews. The two verses are connected. It is a sign to the Jews--the unbelieving Jews--the unbelieving nation of Israel.
DHK

 

So IF that is true, then wouldn't it stand to reason that there are still unbelieving Jews here today, so therefore wouldn't there be a need for tongues still today?

Working for Jesus,

Tam,

 

That's exactly what Acts 2:38 means. Peter said that the promise of the Spirit of God is for all.

Yes, it was first given to the Jews, which the majority rejected; then given to the Gentiles.

Acts 10:44-48, is a complete replication of what happened in Acts 2:1-4.

In other words, the Gentiles was granted the salvation that was for the nation of Israel.

BTW, we are not talking about "The gift of tongues" as some call it. It's not the same thing!

MEE

 

No, quite the contrary. This is the exact reason that we know that tongues have ceased. The Jews did not believe the message of the Apostles, in spite of the sign that was given to them. For that reason judgement did fall upon them as prophesied. Their city was destroyed in 70 A.D., and their nation dispersed. After that tongues died out. Their purpose had been fulfilled. Tongues have ceased. There remains no more need for them. This was a New Testament period phenomena given especially for the ones involved in crucifying the Lord. If you read the message that Peter gave on the Day of Pentecost one realizes that those are the people that are his audience.

Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
DHK

 

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit comes at the point of salvation. There is nothing difficult to understand about that concept. This is the gift referred to. Either way it is still salvation that is promised to everyone that believes.
DHK

 

No, quite the contrary. This is the exact reason that we know that tongues have ceased. The Jews did not believe the message of the Apostles, in spite of the sign that was given to them. For that reason judgement did fall upon them as prophesied. Their city was destroyed in 70 A.D., and their nation dispersed. After that tongues died out. Their purpose had been fulfilled. Tongues have ceased. There remains no more need for them. This was a New Testament period phenomena given especially for the ones involved in crucifying the Lord. If you read the message that Peter gave on the Day of Pentecost one realizes that those are the people that are his audience.

Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]Again, This is Men's Speculation with no real Solid Scriptures to back it up... and your a Moderator? God Help us all..

 

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit comes at the point of salvation. There is nothing difficult to understand about that concept. This is the gift referred to. Either way it is still salvation that is promised to everyone that believes.
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]Again, More speculation, and Scripture-less opinion from a Biased person who takes the word of God OUT of context and makes a doctrine out of it... and he's a moderator...what you gonna do Mr. Moderator, ban me for telling the truth about you... I'm suprised your a moderator of this section, this ain't a Baptist section. this is the "other religions" section, as you Biased Baptist's call it, why don't you find your self over in the Baptist sections where you Belong? We don't post in your sections, why should YOU be allowed to post in ours? What does everyone think?

 

SeekingAfterHim,
Well it does say all Christians... so Baptist are also included. But I thought that moderators were suppost to be moderating and be (un-biased?) in their opinions on the debates and to keep peace? Atleast that would make since to me. Thats just MOHO and my two cents.

Music4Him

 

That's exactly what Acts 2:38 means. Peter said that the promise of the Spirit of God is for all.

Yes, it was first given to the Jews, which the majority rejected; then given to the Gentiles.

Acts 10:44-48, is a complete replication of what happened in Acts 2:1-4.

In other words, the Gentiles was granted the salvation that was for the nation of Israel.

BTW, we are not talking about "The gift of tongues" as some call it. It's not the same thing!

MEE </font>[/QUOTE]~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit comes at the point of salvation. There is nothing difficult to understand about that concept. This is the gift referred to. Either way it is still salvation that is promised to everyone that believes.
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]Maybe I should had rephrased that a little? How about those "benifits" (yes benifits are plural because there are alot of them benifits ) when we get saved and the Holy Ghost comes to dwell in us.

Music4Him