He is the propitiation for our sins:

[Brightfame52]

Faith as a fruit of the Spirit to serve God and endure trials with thankfulness and joy is one thing, faith to believe the gospel is another.
There is faith as a gift of the Spirit after a man has already been saved:
1Co_12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit;
Evidently then, that kind of faith is not saving faith.

Joy is also a fruit of the Spirit, and lost people can have joy:
Pro_15:21 Folly is joy to him that is destitute of wisdom: but a man of understanding walketh uprightly.

Two kinds of joys, two kinds of faith. (Heb.4:12)

Faith is still the fruit of the Spirit. The faith of the natural man cant please God Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

So the faith of the unregenerate who are only in the flesh, it cant believe in Christ for Salvation, sorry !

 

[1689Dave]

Faith as a fruit of the Spirit to serve God and endure trials with thankfulness and joy is one thing, faith to believe the gospel is another.
There is faith as a gift of the Spirit after a man has already been saved:
1Co_12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit;
Evidently then, that kind of faith is not saving faith.

Joy is also a fruit of the Spirit, and lost people can have joy:
Pro_15:21 Folly is joy to him that is destitute of wisdom: but a man of understanding walketh uprightly.

Two kinds of joys, two kinds of faith. (Heb.4:12)

Human faith trusts used car salespeople. Holy Spirit faith is Godly and comes from Him. If you choose to believe, it is human faith. If you cannot help but believe, it is Holy Spirit faith, the Evidence of your salvation.

 

[Van]

??? I assume you don't see your own contradiction, otherwise you wouldn't have said what you said

Cognitive Dissonance is a requirement of Calvinism, not truth.

 

[SavedByGrace]

You need to tell yourself that !

Your theology is warped

 

[AustinC]

Cognitive Dissonance is a requirement of Calvinism, not truth.

My assumption is correct. You are blind to your overt contradictions and fall upon the crutch of Calvinism to avoid seeing the contradictions. So be it.

 

[Brightfame52]

Your theology is warped

Again you need to tell yourself that !

 

[SavedByGrace]

Human faith trusts used car salespeople. Holy Spirit faith is Godly and comes from Him. If you choose to believe, it is human faith. If you cannot help but believe, it is Holy Spirit faith, the Evidence of your salvation.

more reformed RUBBISH!

 

[Yeshua1]

Whole World of the Elect, so everyone isn't Gods Elect, you didnt know that ?

I do, just was saying that world does not mean automatically all people, have to determine context!

 

[Dave G]

@Brightfame52 :

As I once heard an old preacher say,
"That is the offense of the cross."

What offense?
For whom did Christ die...

Ephesians 5:25.
Matthew 1:21.
John 10:11.
Isaiah 53:8.

If Christ actually took away or paid for the sins ( Colossians 2:13-14, Romans 5:10 ) of the world ( every man woman and child, as John 1:29 and 1 John 2:2 seem to many to say all by themselves ), then Hell hath enlarged herself for nothing.

There is no one there awaiting the Judgment.

 

[SavedByGrace]

I do, just was saying that world does not mean automatically all people, have to determine context!

to say that "the whole world" is the elect, is total RUBBISH! Read 1 John 5:18-19, and see that this teaching is a LIE!

"We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him. We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one"

"We are from God", are those "who has been born of God". And "the whole world", has to be the unsaved world, which is "
in the power of the evil one". Unless you say that born again believers are with the devil! BOTH here and in 2:2, the SAME Greek is used, with exactly the SAME meaning! ONLY "theologically", as "reformed/Calvinist", would anyone pervert this plain Teaching of the Bible!

 

[Van]

My assumption is correct. You are blind to your overt contradictions and fall upon the crutch of Calvinism to avoid seeing the contradictions. So be it.

Calvinist twaddle, filled with false and unsupported charges, with no on topic content.

Jesus being the propitiation for the whole world does not mean Jesus propitiated the whole world.

Only those placed into Christ receive the reconciliation provided by Christ's sacrificial death.

 

[Van]

The two views:
1) The bogus view is God chose all the individuals to be saved before creation. Never mind 1 Peter 2:9-10 precludes being chosen before living as someone not chosen.
2) Christ died for all humankind, those to be saved and those never to be saved. Therefore, becoming the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world, all of humankind, does not propitiate all people, but it does provide the means of salvation for everyone who believes. This view is consistent with 1 Peter 2:9-10.

 

[Brightfame52]

sbg

to say that "the whole world" is the elect, is total RUBBISH!

No its not since its talking about the whole World that is Justified by the fact Christ has propitiated Gods wrath in their behalf. And thats not everyone without exception since many are under Gods wrath ! To be under Gods wrath, and at the same time Gods wrath for you has been propitiated is a contradiction !

So what is rubbish is for the whole world not to be the elect here in this context !

 

[Scott Downey]

He is the propitiation for our sins:


Now the word propitiation equates to Justice satisfied; Gods wrath having been appeased by Jesus Christ the righteous, and not by ones act of believing or Faith, Christ's Blood propitiated God, and nothing else, lest we believe heresy. Therefore the whole world in 1 Jn 2:2


2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


This whole world has been reconciled to God Heb 2:17


17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.


The word reconciliation here is the greek word hilaskomai


hiláskomai (akin to 2434 /hilasmós, "propitiation, appeasement/satisfaction of divine wrath on sin") – properly, to extend propitiation, showing mercy by satisfying (literally, propitiating) the wrath of God on sin; "to conciliate, appease, propitiate


Its in the same family of words propitiation 1 Jn 2:2 is.

And those God has promised to be merciful to their what ? Heb 8:12

For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

The word merciful here is the word ἵλεως in the same family of words as above and means:

(an adjective, used back in Attic Greek about appeasing divine wrath) – properly, propitious, describing God's covenant-mercy

God has promised to be propitious to the sins, of His elect, based upon the blood and mediation of Christ the righteous Heb 8:6

6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Now naturally men think that this New Covenant Promise of propitiation belongs to only ethnic jews, but thats wrong, and thats why there is the emphasis in 1 Jn 2:2 that it applies to the whole world, all ethnicities of Gods elect

It also applies to all Gods sheep in all stages of world history.


Now does it apply to sinners under Gods wrath ? Jn 3:36

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

No it doesnt, it cant, that would contradict what propitiation means:


hiláskomai (akin to 2434 /hilasmós, "propitiation, appeasement/satisfaction of divine wrath on sin")

appeasing divine wrath

Folk, Gods wrath isn't and cant be appeased for sinners His wrath abideth on !

"This whole world has been reconciled to God Heb 2:17"
It has not. the 'people' who are HIS brethren, only they are reconciled to God and saved, the rest who are unbelievers remain unreconciled, and God is not saving any unbelievers from their sins.
Christ is the appeasement of wrath (propitiation) only for them who believe in Christ.
Heb 2 is referring to the children of God, not the unbelieving world. People mention there are the children of God.

Note the context
10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 saying:

“I will declare Your name to My brethren;
In the midst of the assembly I will sing praise to You.”

13 And again:

“I will put My trust in Him.”

And again:

“Here am I and the children whom God has given Me.”

 

[SavedByGrace]

sbg



No its not since its talking about the whole World that is Justified by the fact Christ has propitiated Gods wrath in their behalf. And thats not everyone without exception since many are under Gods wrath ! To be under Gods wrath, and at the same time Gods wrath for you has been propitiated is a contradiction !

So what is rubbish is for the whole world not to be the elect here in this context !

respond to #50

 

[Scott Downey]

So for example if you want to have the appeasement of God's wrath for you, the propitiation of your sins, you must believe in Jesus Christ, follow Him.
Otherwise you have no appeasement or propitiation, no forgiveness and you go to hell, you die in your sins.

So yes Christ is the propitiation, the atoning sacrifice for the sins of all the world, but the blood must be applied individually.

Just what the 'Passover' is all about, when death passes over, passes by your house, it passed by you because the blood of the lamb was applied over the doorway of your house.

 

[AustinC]

Calvinist twaddle, filled with false and unsupported charges, with no on topic content.

Jesus being the propitiation for the whole world does not mean Jesus propitiated the whole world.

Only those placed into Christ receive the reconciliation provided by Christ's sacrificial death.

And here we see the contradiction again.

"Jesus propitiated the whole world...but not really. In reality Jesus only propitiated those chosen to be in Christ." Yet, Reformed theology is "twaddle."

Van, every reader can see your contradictions...and they don't have to be a Calvinist to see it.

 

[AustinC]

The two views:
1) The bogus view is God chose all the individuals to be saved before creation. Never mind 1 Peter 2:9-10 precludes being chosen before living as someone not chosen.
2) Christ died for all humankind, those to be saved and those never to be saved. Therefore, becoming the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world, all of humankind, does not propitiate all people, but it does provide the means of salvation for everyone who believes. This view is consistent with 1 Peter 2:9-10.

See the bold contradiction.

In your view, Jesus blood was poured out for all, but was ineffective for many. Jesus blood was like a flu shot that may or may not protect from the flu.

Second, your claim about 1 Peter 2:9-10 is for the elect. How do we know? We read the first verse in 1 Peter 1:1.

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

How do we know this? We also read 1 Peter 2:11

But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul.
~ 1 Peter 2:9-11

 

[Van]

And here we see the contradiction again.

"Jesus propitiated the whole world...but not really.

.

Note how Calvinists claim I said the opposite of what I said.
Pay no attention to false teachers spreading disinformation

 

[Van]

See the bold contradiction.
In your view, Jesus blood was poured out for all, but was ineffective for many. Jesus blood was like a flu shot that may or may not protect from the flu.
Second, your claim about 1 Peter 2:9-10 is for the elect. How do we know? We read the first verse in 1 Peter 1:1.
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
How do we know this? We also read 1 Peter 2:11
But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul.
~ 1 Peter 2:9-11

Once again the Calvinist spreads disinformation. Let us count the ways:
1) Christ's death was ineffective for many. Here the false doctrine that Christ's death propitiated those He died for is put forth. And the actual doctrine, Christ's death provided the means for all humankind to be saved is ignored.

2) Next, did anyone claim 1 Peter 2:9-10 was not addressing the elect? Nope But note how the bogus rebuttal ignores that once they were not a people, and they would have always been a people if the false claim of individual election before creation were true.

I believe anyone who actually considers scripture will come the the same conclusion I came to, that Calvinism is precluded by scripture, over and over again.