Originally posted by music4Him:
Music4Him is saying that yahoo we agree! God is and has always been the healer. What God did in Old Testament times (and the New Testament times for that matter) He still does today! When you say that healing don't happen like it did in the 1st century...to me (the way I am taking it) you are saying God doesn't operate like that....its like you are putting a leash on what the Lord can do. How do you think men like Paul, Peter,....ect healed anyone? They healed people with Holy Ghost working through them, in Jesus name, giving the glory to God because He is the one who accually healed the people. Some people get this confused. They think that men themselfs healed....this is wrong thinking! If a man says to me, "I healed this person", (like some do today) you better run the other direction! To me, thats the kind of false prophets/teachers that are mentioned in the NT bible talks about (IMOHO the ones who will do all kinds of signs and wonders and preach money/prosperity, health and pleasures, but don't preach the salvation message).
So far so good. We agree in basic principle up to this point.
If I go to a church and they have signs and wonders with the lame walking and the dumb talking and the blind eyes being opened, but if they don't preach about the healing blood of Jesus.....if they don't tell others about the salvation Jesus offers....or don't preach about the resurection power of God.....then "run Forest run"!!!!!
I definitely agree that the message has to be there. But I am very skeptical about a church that claims to have "signs and wonders" such as the lame walking, the blind seeing, the dumb talking, etc. Look around you. Peter Popoff claims this on a regular basis. So does Benny Hinn. Are we so naive to believe their antics when they have been proven to be frauds over and over again. There is no power of the Holy Spirit there. Popoff receives communication from his wife about individuals in the audience from pre-filled forms. He "knows" ahead of time: symptoms, characteristics, etc. People with real disabilities like parapalegics in wheelchairs
never get through to Benny Hinn. It is impossible for Benny Hinn to heal them and he knows it.
We have a couple of people confined to wheelchairs in our church, and they have come to the realization in their lives that it is not God's will to heal every one, and it is not God's will to heal them. God has a different purpose for them in their lives. It was never God's purpose for all people to be healed. This is a misconception of the Charismatics.
Jesus could and did heal all that came to him. It was a "work" or sign that He did to demonstrate his deity.
The Apostles at certain times in their ministry could heal all that came to them (but not all the time like Jesus could). This was a sign (a wonder). It verified to those around that they were apostles, and that the message of the gospel was authentic. We don't need to authenticate the gospel message with signs and wonders any more. We have the completed Word of God, and that is all we need.
Jesus said: An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign.
God still heals. He heals according to his will. He heals as answers to prayer not by according to the gift of healing. The gift has ceased. He doesn't heal all the time. He heals according to His will; it is not always His will to heal.
But I tell you who needs pity....people who are preached to (and don't read their bibles for themselfs and learn of Jesus) and end up putting Jesus in a box and so high up on a shelf that they feel like they are unable and/or unworthy to reach out to Him....then they miss all the blessings and benifits that the word promises them. Like some people/doctrins I have been aquainted with in the past. (exampleWhen my mother in law had a sore toe and I asked her if she would like me to pray for her? Her reply was no, she said God is too busy to worry about her toe! So she limped around and dealt with the pain.) I don't want to seem selfish, but I want a Jesus who is real and alive and resurected, with healing in His wings and living in me and praise God! When I got saved He didn't let me down! But I don't like it when people set limits or say that God don't work like He used to. He was the same in the OT healing people as He did in the NT as He does today....different ways but still the same!
I agree with most of what you said, especially with your example concerning your mother in law. We need to pray. We need to pray for healing. But we also need to be realistic, and realize, like Paul, that God also says: "My grace is sufficient for you." And therefore we, like Paul must be ready to have his attitude:
2 Corinthians 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
--Because the Lord does not always heal.
Some examples would be in the OT when Moses made the brass serpent for the people to look on be healed with the snake bites. In the NT with Jesus the woman with the issue of blood reached out to touch the hem of Jesus's garment and was healed... He told her that her faith made her whole. Also after Jesus was resurected and asended to heaven...when Paul preached the gospel and the man at Lystra heard and Paul precived he had faith to be healed told him to stand and he was healed.
Those events all happened. They all happened for a purpose. Jesus also healed many people that had no faith at all. Nine out of ten lepers never came back to thank him. Of the 5,000 that were miraculously fed, most just followed him because he fed them, and because of the miracles that he did. They were not true believers. Jesus "knew" their hearts. Miracles don't save people; the gospel does.
Just another thing that I have noticed while doing some studies on this healing subject.
In Acts 10:34-43 especially verse 38 Peter says;
How God anoited Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with Him.
These are the words of Peter so I assume he should know what he was talking about. In Matthew Mary is told that the child concived in her is of the Holy Ghost. Then later Jesus spoke of sending a comforter (the Holy Ghost) before he was crucified in the book of John. Paul speaks of the Holy Ghost in 1 Cor. 12, that is the same Spirit right?
Yes, the Holy Spirit remains the same. He is the same person of the Triune Godhead from Genesis chapter one, as he is in Revelation chapter 22. He never changes. But God works in different ways in different periods of history. He tells us so in the Book of Hebrews:
Hebrews 1:1-2 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
In the Old Testament God spoke to his people, the nation of Israel, through the prophets in different ways: visions, dreams, audibly, etc.
Nowadays, He speaks to us through His Son, Jesus Christ, who is revealed to us through the Word of God.
We don't need signs; we need the Word of God.
Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.
DHK
