vote for 29....
Hello Allan and others...,
Who said this has anything to do with salvation at all? Ok...so, nearly everyone in all your theology books and each person in our class and every preacher that has lived...says this. It comes from all sides that it
is talking about salvation. I read close to 50 books on Hebrews and had 28 views...all of them said
it was salvation. But forget about them....will ya?
Lets take a
new look at the text. The context does not hold the weight of all the views I have read. OK, I'm a nut and all knew this...but I did not have true peace about it..until I read it the right way.
This means I am right....you see. Well, if there is 28 views I know of, I'm sure there are at least 28 more I have not read. We have 4-5 on the table on this thread. Why not one more???? Why not the right view. I joke of course.
Everyone seems to be fixxed on a few words found in one verse and forget about the context. I feel the passage tells us the real meaning.
Ok...forget ...get it out of your mind right now, that this passsage has anything at all to do with the act of salvation. Drop it. Dumb idea. Get over it. Now that you have done this...look back into chapter 5...near the end and read about this...
We...( the believer)...MUST grow or mature in Christ.
We need meat not only milk...
We need to judge what is right...
We need to grow into teachers..
All of these things are addressed to the believe. Some crazy Calvinist think this is not believers. I am not one of those. Paul, (or the writer) is not telling the non-believer to grow...it is the elect of God he is speaking to. This is all actions and deeds on our part. Not salvation by works, buy works that show faith. (James)
Heb 6....
1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3And this will we do, if God permit.
Go forward in your faith growing more into GRACE, not backwards into the Law of dead WORKS. (remember this word "works")
4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
These 2 verse are just a long way of saying that the subjects are "born again" believers. Now...once you are saved...once you are enlightened...once you are partakers of the Holy Spirit...you are have now moved away from the law of works (jewish Believers)...and into grace. Also the idea is...we are now a new man...and have a changed life. This was addressing the Jews, but it can be applied to all.
Some of what I said, was read into the text of these 2 verses...I admit this. But context of the whole passage will allow this. But in the end we should all agree..this is only stating in a long way that these guys are SAVED.
6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
shall fall away.....
renew them, unto repentance....
These two phases is what causes 28 and counting views. But to much time is spent on these two phases as they try to twist meaning into the text that is not part of context. Lets drop one of these phases now, and we will pick it back up later. Lets drop "
renew them, unto repentance" for this is what will happen if they
fall away.
Now our text reads with review of above...
Go forward in your faith into GRACE, not backwards into the Law of dead WORKS. (remember this word "works").....and..
If they shall fall away, seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Falling away...moving backwards. I think context is still carried from before where we saw...works and dead works.
Works that do not show grace. (being tied to the law).
Works that show no change in our life. (living in sin).
If our works display our God and Lord, in a
shameful way. This kind of works KILLS our faith. Its like us bringing the
shame that Christ had on the cross to Him again. But it is OUR works that bring the shame. The public sees our works, they know we are believers...and for us to both..follow Christ
and to live in sin, is a open shame unto our God for we now are
HIS. We belong to HIM. Others are to see Christ in us. Or for us to be saved by grace, and then fall back into the works of the law..places shame on the grace that God gave us in freeing us from the Law making salvation based on works..
What about "renew them, unto repentance"?
If we SIN and we SIN in a public way...living in sin with sinful works of our flesh, and the world sees this, what does this do to our witness?
We shame our God.
We Shame our faith.
We shame the Grace God gives.
We shame our own words as we share to others, for they will mock us and our God, all because of our sinful ways.
This is not speaking of salvation, but
full repentance in our works, words and actions
after salvation. God is faithful and willing to forgive us. But what about the world that watches us? Also what will God think of our sinful works, and wanting to return to the law? Now, what in the world do I mean "full repentance"? God will forgive us, but we can sin is such a way that our witness on earth is no good here on earth. This does not mean we can not work within the kingdom. We still have jobs. But think about the preacher that falls into sin in a public way, his witness is done for. Again, there are other things the fallen sinner can do, all God forgives his sin, but in some cases the sin is so great our preaching days are over.
This is a new idea...I understand. But I think it is clear, because of the two verses that follows.
7For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
FOR....linking back to verse 6....
FOR the herbs/works/actions...that we bring forth are blessed by God. I also see in the context, that the good works when done in light of the Bible, bring praise to God. But..the shame of thorns and briers/bad works/bad public action is rejected. Is rejected not only by God, but also by those that know us. A believer is held to a higher standard by the world, as he should be. When we damage our witness, it shames God and makes our words to the lost a joke.
Why could one be saved by grace, if salvation changes nothing in us? (I speak from the world view) The text goes on to say, that this kind of action by us will lead to cursing, not only by God, but by man as they mock our faith.
He claims to be changed in Christ and look at the way he lives. (Again..I speak as the world sees us)
In the end, these works are burned for they are worthless to God.
Notice what is the picture of the believer. It is the ground. The ground is looked at and also judged by others by the fruits it “bearth” (vs8). God brings grace and waters the ground…(the believer) and the watering, the grace falls all of the believers in this text. The fruit is what brings shame and is disapproved or it will bring glory to God and is blessed.
I like how Young put it…
7For earth, that is drinking in the rain many times coming upon it, and is bringing forth herbs fit for those because of whom also it is dressed, doth partake of blessing from God,
8and that which is bearing thorns and briers [is] disapproved of, and nigh to cursing, whose end [is] for burning;
End of part one....part 2 coming..
