Hell: Which View is The Bible One?

[AndyMartin]

See my post #118.

And note that Mark made clear he is not advocating "annihilation" at death, but "annihilation" after being tormented in the Lake of Fire such that the lost are punished perfectly for their sins. This would be consistent with some punishment being more tolerable than for others.

Not in the Bible anywhere. Nor do the Hebrew and Greek words used for the punishment of the wicked, ever support "annihilation", at any time. This is all pure conjecture and wishful thinking!

 

[AndyMartin]

For those who suppose that words like "destroy", have the meaning "annihilate", should take note of the following.

In Genesis 19:29 we read: "Thus it came about, when God destroyed the cities of the valley, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when He overthrew the cities in which Lot lived", which is speaking of the "destruction" of Sodom. The Hebrew word "shachath", is never used for "annihilation". Jesus refers to this in Luke 17:29, "but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all", where again the Greek "ἀπόλλυμι" (destroyed) never is used for "annihilation".

If, as some suppose that "destruction" equates to "annihilation", then how can they answer the fact, that over 2000 years after God destroyed Sodom, that Jesus in the Gospels says, "Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city" (Matthew 10:15). How can these people who were "annihilated" in the Book of Genesis, be there on Judgement Day? Likewise in Jude 1:7 we read, "just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire". Where the word "undergoing" in the Greek, "ὑπέχουσαι", is in the "present, continuance tense", showing that when Jude was written, they we STILL SUFFERING.

 

[Baptist Believer]

For those who suppose that words like "destroy", have the meaning "annihilate", should take note of the following.

In Genesis 19:29 we read: "Thus it came about, when God destroyed the cities of the valley, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when He overthrew the cities in which Lot lived", which is speaking of the "destruction" of Sodom. The Hebrew word "shachath", is never used for "annihilation". Jesus refers to this in Luke 17:29, "but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all", where again the Greek "ἀπόλλυμι" (destroyed) never is used for "annihilation".

If, as some suppose that "destruction" equates to "annihilation", then how can they answer the fact, that over 2000 years after God destroyed Sodom, that Jesus in the Gospels says, "Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city" (Matthew 10:15). How can these people who were "annihilated" in the Book of Genesis, be there on Judgement Day?

They were physically destroyed by God's judgment (the first death) - the destruction of the body.

Likewise in Jude 1:7 we read, "just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire". Where the word "undergoing" in the Greek, "ὑπέχουσαι", is in the "present, continuance tense", showing that when Jude was written, they we STILL SUFFERING.

Yes, except no one is in the lake of fire yet. The time of complete destruction (the second death) has not yet occurred. That comes after the final judgment.

 

[AndyMartin]

They were physically destroyed by God's judgment (the first death) - the destruction of the body.


Yes, except no one is in the lake of fire yet. The time of complete destruction (the second death) has not yet occurred. That comes after the final judgment.

can you or anyone else show from the Bible, where "destruction" means "annihilation", as NONE of the Hebrew and Greek words used ever show this? I await the evidence.

 

[Van]

We are done Andy, I provided two of many examples, and some of the Lexicon's you mentioned include "do away with completely."

 

[Revmitchell]

You play old and worn out tactics.

I had a long post, speaking in the general, with several specific points.
I SAID, if there was anything SPECIFIC you wanted to challenge because you disagreed...
...then challenge the point you disagreed with.

IF you were incapable of seeking and finding in scripture the point your were challenging, to just ASK and I would provide for you, what YOU COULD NOT FIND in scripture.

You elected to simply disagree with EVERYTHING I said.

So I selected ONE POINT, and SHOWED YOU that Scripture verified what I said.

You elected to simply CONTINUE disagreeing with EVERYTHING I said.

You have succeeded in straying away from what I said to simply repeating your disagreement of the whole of my post, with you never having been specific about ANY point.

I accept your inability to challenge anything specific and your choice to disagree with scripture and with me.

Go talk in circles with someone else; it bores me.

You added no scripture therefore your long diatribe has no credibility. End of story.

 

[Happy]

You added no scripture therefore your long diatribe has no credibility. End of story.

You asked nothing pertaining to anything specific I said.
You did not ask, you did not receive.
You did not go and seek, you did not find.

You simply dismissed it ALL as not creditable.

I gave a long post....

You said;

Revmitchell said: ↑
If you actually thought you had scriptural support for that post you would have included it.

Why? You are the one who claims yourself with the title "Reverend". I do not presume anyone parading with a TITLE of Reverend is a baby, lacking basic knowledge of scripture, to ignorant to know how to seek in scripture and verify what they hear, or ASK the speaker of a portion of the text they are ignorant of and do not comprehend.

Sorry. I gave you too much credit, based on the title you have attached to your identity.

That "credit" was quickly changed, when you proved yourself incapable of addressing ANY particular point I stated, and proved yourself incapable to searching the Scriptures yourself, and proved yourself
in opposition to scripture, when I took ONE point of mine and gave you the verifying scripture, to which you continued and still continue to make your objection.

It didn't really matter IF I looked up EVERY SINGLE SCRIPTURE FOR YOU.....
I did ONE as an example....and YOU STILL DENY, and YOU STILL claim...

You added no scripture therefore your long diatribe has no credibility.

Regarding you, from here forward, I will presume you completely unskilled to have a general conversation, about Scripture, and completely ignorant of the ability to comprehend how to go and seek or ask and are therefor well suited for a Toddler Bible that speaks a one-liner and looks up for you the paralleling scripture.

Whinny lazy people are about as pleasant as a pebble in my shoe.

 

[Revmitchell]

I don't care what you presume. Have a nice day and good luck with your unscriptural posts.

 

[Yeshua1]

First, the orthodox view is commonly interpreted to be the belief that punishment for the wicked is everlasting and that it is punitive, not redemptive. Because the Bible reveals that God is a God of love and grace, a tension has developed between the concepts of a loving God and of a righteous God who demands absolute justice of the wicked. It is generally conceded, however, that a strict orthodoxy provides a literal everlasting punishment for the wicked.

Second, a view of hell as metaphorical, that is, somewhat non-literal and less specific than the orthodox view, has also attracted many followers. Usually it is conceded that those who are wicked will never be redeemed and restored to a place of blessing in eternity, but the scriptural accounts of their suffering and divine judgment are taken in a less-than-literal understanding.

Third, the Roman Catholic view sees hell as purgatorial, that is, hell has an ante-chamber called purgatory, a place of divine cleansing from which some, at least, will eventually emerge as redeemed and be among the blessed of God. Generally speaking, this view requires that all must go through a period of purgation in which their unconfessed sins are judged and punishment inflicted. Though it may be extensive and continue over a period of time, ultimately, many will be restored to a place of grace and bliss, though others will be damned eternally.

Fourth, the view of hell as a conditional or temporary situation for the wicked has been advocated by many who find a contradiction between the doctrines of everlasting punishment and of a God of love and grace. As a result, they explain that hell is either temporary, in the sense that immortality is conditional and only the righteous will be raised, or that it is redemptive, in the sense that whatever suffering there may be after this life because of sin will end up in the wicked being redeemed and restored to a place of blessing. In other words, conditional immortality or annihilation lessens the severity and the extent of everlasting punishment, while in universalism, all are eventually saved.

The correct viewpoint would be that it is an eternal state apart from the presence of God forever!

 

[Happy]

I don't care what you presume. Have a nice day and good luck with your unscriptural posts.

"I don't care"

You don't care, is sufficient on your part; was what I presumed about you; and thus settled, no need to converse betwixt us. God bless you.

 

[Yeshua1]

We are done Andy, I provided two of many examples, and some of the Lexicon's you mentioned include "do away with completely."

NONE of the reputable ones would see hell as meaning cease to exist/destroyed as in being undone now!

 

[Yeshua1]

can you or anyone else show from the Bible, where "destruction" means "annihilation", as NONE of the Hebrew and Greek words used ever show this? I await the evidence.

There really are none, except that those who must see a need to have no eternal hell make that up!

 

[AndyMartin]

There really are none, except that those who must see a need to have no eternal hell make that up!

You are right, those who advocate "annihilation" do not have ANY Bible texts to support their "theory", and actually doing the devils work for him! They are no better than the Roman Catholics and their "Purgatory", which again is based on an unscriptural misunderstanding of what the Bible actually does teach on the "eternal stare of the damned". The biggest fear for those who support such nonsense, is that many will end up in a real conscious hell, where there is real suffering, and because they listened to the detractors of the Truth of Scripture, and hoped they were right! This is nothing short of tragic.

 

[Revmitchell]

You are right, those who advocate "annihilation" do not have ANY Bible texts to support their "theory", and actually doing the devils work for him!

Ok, ok, ok I think we all see this post as over the top and unnecessary. There is no annihilation in scripture but no one is doing the devils work. Let's be peaceful.

 

[AndyMartin]

Ok, ok, ok I think we all see this post as over the top and unnecessary. There is no annihilation in scripture but no one is doing the devils work. Let's be peaceful.

How can you say this this post is over the top? We are here dealing with the eternal destiny of millions of people, and every life is precious to the Lord. To promote the teaching of "annihilation", is a false doctrine, and cannot be from the Lord. There are many millions who will be deceived into believing that after death there is nothing else, and will not see the urgent need to repent and get right with the Lord. You will know that the Person who spoke the most on hell, and warned everyone, is the Lord Jesus Christ, because of the severity of what awaits the unbelieving wicked. It is our God-given duty to warn everyone about the real danger of a real suffering for all eternity if they reject Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour and Lord. How can anyone doubt that those who hold to "annihilation" have been deceived by the devil, as it has not part in Scripture.

 

[Revmitchell]

How can you say this this post is over the top?

Because it is

We are here dealing with the eternal destiny of millions of people, and every life is precious to the Lord. To promote the teaching of "annihilation", is a false doctrine, and cannot be from the Lord. There are many millions who will be deceived into believing that after death there is nothing else, and will not see the urgent need to repent and get right with the Lord.

We cannot know what people will be deceived into thinking. Pure speculation on your part.

You will know that the Person who spoke the most on hell, and warned everyone, is the Lord Jesus Christ, because of the severity of what awaits the unbelieving wicked. It is our God-given duty to warn everyone about the real danger of a real suffering for all eternity if they reject Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour and Lord. How can anyone doubt that those who hold to "annihilation" have been deceived by the devil, as it has not part in Scripture.

Or how about they just got it wrong all by themselves without the help of the devil. Satan is real, the battle is real, but let's not cause more division by telling people they are doing the devils work because they got a particular doctrine wrong. That is as much the devils work as anything else.

Let's just make our case, disagree and move on. Good grief.

 

[AndyMartin]

Because it is



We cannot know what people will be deceived into thinking. Pure speculation on your part.



Or how about they just got it wrong all by themselves without the help of the devil. Satan is real, the battle is real, but let's not cause more division by telling people they are doing the devils work because they got a particular doctrine wrong. That is as much the devils work as anything else.

Let's just make our case, disagree and move on. Good grief.

Its fine to have your own opinions, but please don't try to get involved in what others are saying just because they don't do things the same way as you. You have your way and I have mine. If you think I am Biblically wrong, then show me, otherwise don't criticize for the sake of it!

 

[Revmitchell]

Its fine to have your own opinions, but please don't try to get involved in what others are saying just because they don't do things the same way as you. You have your way and I have mine. If you think I am Biblically wrong, then show me, otherwise don't criticize for the sake of it!

Uh sorry newbie, that is not how it is done on this board. You do not get to decide which of your comments others can comment on. You are being crass and your posts are sophomoric at best. Take some time to think before you post.

 

[AndyMartin]

Uh sorry newbie, that is not how it is done on this board. You do not get to decide which of your comments others can comment on. You are being crass and your posts are sophomoric at best. Take some time to think before you post.

Rich coming from you! I have seen some of your exchanges with "Happy"!. Just don't worry your head, as you are not "Admin"!

 

[Van]

NONE of the reputable ones would see hell as meaning cease to exist/destroyed as in being undone now!

I really do not know why Y1 posts. Did anyone say Gehenna ceases to exist? Nope. Satan is tormented day and night in the lake of fire forever and ever. Please stop posting falsehoods to push fake theology.

And why did you claim none of the Lexicons have as a meaning of "destroy" G622 as "destroy, i.e. to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to, ruin." (Thayers)