Heretic hunters

[Ray Berrian]

Saul's confrontation with God came in Acts 9:4 when God calls to him saying, 'Saul, Saul . . . ' Saul said, 'Who art Thou Lord?' and his next statement to the Lord was, 'Lord, what will you have me to do? Even at the first statement Saul asks who the Lord was/is. 'Who art Thou Lord? He was saved at this point because I Corinthians 12:3 says, that ' . . . no one can call Jesus Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.' In other words, no one can acknowledge that Jesus is Lord without the assistance and or indwelling of the Holy Spirit. God's mighty move on Saul was because He wanted Saul/Paul to know His powerful sovereignty in his life and that He was greater than his little Temple on earth and his Judiastic beliefs. We all know that Paul got the point.

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
Someone said that he fell off of his horse. I never read in particular a horse.

heh heh. I don't remember who said it or where I heard it, but I recall one speaker saying words to the effect of "Paul had to be knocked off his high horse..."

This is scary, we can agree here There is no mention of a horse involved in the proceedings As Damascus is 200+km from Jerusalem, the presence of a horse or two is highly probable, but I wouldn't bet my left leg on either option

No matter how you slice it, Saul was saved or converted to Jesus on the Road to Demascus and within the context of Acts 9:1-8. Would you agree?

This is very scary, we agree again

I guess the next post will remove fear

Pete

 

[Ray Berrian]

Pete,

I like your sense of humor.

I had an elder in my congregation who was in the western part of Australia during the Second World War. He protected fuel reserves for the American subs there. He said they never fired on the 'Lufwafia' because then their location would have been revealed.

Ray

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
Saul's confrontation with God came in Acts 9:4 when God calls to him saying, 'Saul, Saul . . . ' Saul said, 'Who art Thou Lord?' and his next statement to the Lord was, 'Lord, what will you have me to do?

(To others who may be reading this and worried after previous post, all is well in the universe again )

Naughty! You left some bits out there Ray

Jesus said a bit inbetween Paul's statements. Vs 4 why persecutest thou me?/why are you persecuting Me (KJV & NKJV). Present tense. How was this new Christian Paul persecuting the Lord there?

Vs 5 (after Paul's question) I am Jesus whom thou persecutest/I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. Present tense again. Poor Paul, not a Christian a minute yet and here he is persecuting Jesus again...talk about backsliding...

Even at the first statement Saul asks who the Lord was/is. 'Who art Thou Lord? He was saved at this point because I Corinthians 12:3 says, that ' . . . no one can call Jesus Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.' In other words, no one can acknowledge that Jesus is Lord without the assistance and or indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

As previously mentioned, vs 5 shows Saul did not know who he was calling Lord. Jesus had to tell Paul who He was. I am Jesus whom thou persecutest/I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. THEN in vs 6, AFTER Jesus Self-revelation of Himself as Lord, Paul was quite understandably trembling and astonished (N/KJV). Paul's first Christian use of the word "Lord" follows with Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?/Lord, what do You want me to do?

The saddest part of the events recorded is that they leave the 'slain' advocates/practitioners without a leg to stand on...

(edited...Get this, can you believe I left out the word LEFT

)

Pete

[ November 03, 2002, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: Titus2_1 ]

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
Pete, I like your sense of humor.

Thanks mate

I was demonstrating puppets to pastor at new Church tonight and came up with a line that I think sums me up "Orthodox in theology, extremely unorthodox in methodology" I better copyright that line and register it as trademark, it might come in handy one day

I had an elder in my congregation who was in the western part of Australia during the Second World War. He protected fuel reserves for the American subs there. He said they never fired on the 'Lufwafia' because then their location would have been revealed.

hmmmm...protecting fuel reserves...He would have wanted to keep his tank full and the motor running just in case the location was revealed

(edited...(i) code instead of (quote)...its been a BIG day...)

Pete

[ November 03, 2002, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: Titus2_1 ]

 

[Pete]

And now....

From my "it-seemed-like-a-good-idea-at-3am" file....

Presenting....

The When Was Paul Saved - Converted - Christianified Poll

Pete

 

[Ray Berrian]

No every sinner gets saved the same way. Probably you and I did not see a brilliant light or need to be knocked to the ground. Apparently, this was God's method with Saul.

Here is the main truth. ' . . . whosoever shall call on the Name of the Lord shall be saved.' [Acts 2:21 b].

Obviously, the Apostle John was a trusted saint who wrote down the very words of God in Revelation and other epistles. While on the isle of Patmos, as we know, he began to write the Book of Revelation. In Revelation 1:10-20 he documents that he 'saw Him' {meaning the Lord} and tells us that he, John, is writing to the seven churches. When John saw the Lord he ' . . . fell at His feet as dead.' He was overpowered by the magnificance of the mighty God. If you don't like the term 'slain in the Spirit' that is your problem. What spiritual notation would you give to John's spiritual experience before the Lord?

With Saul/Paul his experience was at the point of his salvation; with the Apostle John it was at the time of the writing of the Word of the living God.

 

[Ray Berrian]

Pete,

May the Lord use your puppets for His glory and praise. Hope many will find Christ or be found of Him through your efforts. I tried that ministry when my children were small but I did not become good at it. To be honest I failed. It is difficult articulating all of the words. Will pray that you will be a real blessing to others . . .

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
No every sinner gets saved the same way.

True, however I would (almost) be willing to bet left leg that all know who the Lord is afterwards Paul seemed to have trouble with that in Acts 9:5 Are you wagering right leg that a Christian would not know the Lord after he was saved hmm? Looks like one of us would need crutches if we did bet on it...

Then as I mentioned there is that other little problem of Paul's present tense persecuting of the Lord in 9:4-5...

Here is the main truth. ' . . . whosoever shall call on the Name of the Lord shall be saved.' [Acts 2:21 b].

Again, another one I won't argue with

Obviously, the Apostle John was a trusted saint who wrote down the very words of God in Revelation and other epistles. While on the isle of Patmos, as we know, he began to write the Book of Revelation. In Revelation 1:10-20 he documents that he 'saw Him' {meaning the Lord} and tells us that he, John, is writing to the seven churches. When John saw the Lord he ' . . . fell at His feet as dead.' He was overpowered by the magnificance of the mighty God.

Back to John, cool, change of scenery...Above agreed with.

If you don't like the term 'slain in the Spirit' that is your problem.

I don't have a problem with the term "slain in the spirit". I don't even have a problem with the term "preacher Percival's positively power-packed prostrating performances" (I dare anyone to try saying that 3 times fast)...My problem is with the practice today that the term represents being passed off as Biblical when it just aint no such animal (cf. my posts pages 4-7 this thread (most points still unanswered )).

What spiritual notation would you give to John's spiritual experience before the Lord?

Actually, I like your definition: overpowered by the magnificance of the mighty God.

With Saul/Paul his experience was at the point of his salvation; with the Apostle John it was at the time of the writing of the Word of the living God.

Re: Saul/Paul, see previous posts. Re: John, yes he did have an experience To the praise of His glorious grace, one day we will see Him face to face. HalleluYAH!

Pete

[ November 07, 2002, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: Titus2_1 ]

 

[Mike McK]

Ray, you said earlier that I didn't want to discuss the issue at hand, yet you didn't respond to my questions so I'm assuming that you didn't see them.

Since I know you're not a hypocrite, I reposted them where you might see them.

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
Smokeater,

I have defended both Hinn and Camping in my post dated November 1 6:02 p.m. I think both are Christian.

So now you do defend him?

First you do, then you don't, now you do? You need to make up your mind.

The Bible says a double minded man is unstable in all his ways (that's James 1:8, Curtis).

I can't say whether or not Hinn's a Christian, but if he is, how do you reconcile your defending him (first you defend him, then you say you don't, now you say you do) with his false teachings about the atonement, the nature of man, the nature of all three members of the Godhead, and his forays into necormancy, Gnosticism, and New Age and Eastern philosophies?

I noticed, in Calvinistic typical fashion, you never responded to one of my thoughts in the above post.

Isn't it just a bit disingenuous to accuse me of not wanting to respond to one of my thoughts when anytime I try to discuss Benny Hinn, who you brought up, you change the subject to Harold Camping?

I wasn't aware I was a Calvinist. Thank you for clearing that up for me. [/qb][/QUOTE]

[ November 06, 2002, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: Smoke_Eater ]

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:


The above mentioned are a few of his incorrect teachings and yet I would not place him in a cult because I trustingly believe that He loves the Lord.

Mormons and J.W.'s say they love the Lord. Are they any less cults because of their love for the Lord?

Jesus said in John, 14:15, "if you love Me, you'll keep My commandments".

Camping, according to you, doesn't keep Jesus' commandments. Hinn certainly doesn't keep Jesus' commandments.

So then, if they don't keep Jesus' commandments, do they really love Him?

 

[Pete]

Thanks Ray

heh heh actually the heretic hunters thread is a good one for the topic of my puppets to come up in, as Charlie Chimp is definitely one Thankfully Jenny Bee Goode (character based on and operated by my mum) is always there to (try to) sort him out

The shows are about 5 minutes and used as an introduction to the lesson. They start parable style with Charlie getting something wrong and Jenny correcting him, then Jenny points out the parallels between what happened with Charlie and the Bible lesson for the day.

EG: Charlie had a VERY bad week with home appliances, Jenny finds out it all could have been avoided if he had read the instruction books. Jenny then points out that as bad as his week was, it is nothing compared to when humans don't follow God's "Instruction Book". Exit puppets stage right & humans give lesson on Bible as God's Word.

I had to write a script a week at old Church. I would think about the lesson topic as much as possible through the week, study the Bible on topic, then sit down at computer on Saturday afternoon for hour or six and (hopefully...) get the thing written. Was extra good fun when I had to prepare the lesson for the day too

I think the dictionary definition of it might be something like "Write a sermon, take it to kids level, cut it to a couple of minutes, add a parable at the front, then deliver it in a funny voice while moving hand when talking"

Mate, if you want to have another shot at the puppets, the next time the Lord opens the door for me to get over that way I'll bring the Chimp with me and give you free pointers....If customs will let me through with him

Pete

 

[rsr]

Marilyn is praying for cars (It's pledge time.)

"I have an anointing to pray for cars."

"I feel led to pray for cars."

Sanctified cars, that is.

She felt "led by God" to pray for a bronze Cadillac.

And, glory, she met businessmen who said, "We felt led by God to give Marilyn a Cadillac" and 'I felt led by God to receive it.' "

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Originally posted by Smoke_Eater:

The Bible says a double minded man is unstable in all his ways (that's James 1:8, Curtis).

Are you STILL mad at me ? I sure hope not.

If yes..."...let not the sun go down upon your wrath." Ephesians 4:26

If no..."For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life."Roman 5:10

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Bro. Curtis:
Are you STILL mad at me ? I sure hope not.

The comment, itself was directed a Ray for his support/non-support/support/non-support of false teachers.

The scripture reference was in response to your implication in another thread that I don't read the Bible because I don't quote it in every thread.

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by rsr:
Marilyn is praying for cars (It's pledge time.)

Marilyn Hickey???

Hmmmmmm........Now that would be interesting to see........So have I got this straight? Instead of "prayer handkerchiefs" and "vials of anointed oil", she is now trying to sell "prayer car seat covers", and "gallons of anointed gas"?¿?¿?¿

Pete

 

[rsr]

The post made sense at the time.

But if they've upped the ante from a rent payment to a bronze Cadillac (yes, the specific color), can holy hubcaps be far behind?

TBN is always especially interesting during pledge week; they don't hold anything back.

 

[Ray Berrian]

Some people don't care for the term 'slain in the Spirit.'

I can be more Biblical and show that the Apostle Peter in Acts 10:10 fell into a trance. He reaffirms this truth in Acts 11:5. You will have to read this to get the full impact of the experience.

The Apostle Paul also experienced this phenomenon as recorded in Acts 22:17.

And as noted before He fell in the presence of God because God moved so close to Him at his point of salvation. [Acts 9:4 & 8; Acts 22:7]

This may never happen to most Christians but to deny these Biblical experiences is not good.
In no way is this experience, necessarily, a stigmata of their greater spirituality.

I believe that Pastor Benny Hinn is ministering in a way that pleases God, although I believe that no every person who 'is slain in the Spirit' receives a physical healing. I may be wrong.

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
I believe that Pastor Benny Hinn is ministering in a way that pleases God, although I believe that no every person who 'is slain in the Spirit' receives a physical healing. I may be wrong.

You've never explained if Hinn is ministering in a way that pleases God, why does he butcher scripture and the most fundamental of Christian doctrines?

How can somebody who denies the sufficiency of Christ's death on the cross be pleasing to God when the Bible says to let him be accursed?

How can somebody who makes up stories about the nature of God be pleasing to God when the Bible says to let him be accursed?

How can somebody who has been shown to lie at almost every opportunity be pleasing to God when the Bible says that God hates a lying tongue?

How can somebody who has made so many false prohphecies be pleasing to God when the BIble says to let him be accursed?

How can you defend him when the Bible says that we shouldn't have anything to do with him?

Poor Bible.

[ November 07, 2002, 11:33 PM: Message edited by: Smoke_Eater ]

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I agree. But I sure do hope you remember your words here when somebody here exposes the RCC, or even Billy Graham, both of whom I consider heretics, because they have changed the gospel. I consider both groups dangerous. And I have seen folks here go nuts when I include these with the heretics mentioned in this thread.

[ November 08, 2002, 07:14 AM: Message edited by: Bro. Curtis ]