Heretic hunters

[Pete]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
Peter in Acts 10:10, Acts 11:5. Paul Acts 22:17.

None of the above texts are any justification for "slain in the spirit" (the practice of the first part, hereafter refered to as "sits", as I am getting blisters on fingers... ), but anyway: When Peter and Paul (and too many OT prophets to count) received a message while in trance, had a vision, whatever, it was accurate as it was from God. Now compare that with Mr Hinn's performances http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/hinnalnor.html

Accuracy level = which "spirit" hmmm?

And as noted before He fell in the presence of God because God moved so close to Him at his point of salvation.

uh uh uh!

It was just before the point of his (Paul's) salvation remember?

This may never happen to most Christians but to deny these Biblical experiences is not good.

It seems in the above quote when you use Biblical experiences you are refering to "sits". It just simply isn't. However if by Biblical experiences you mean God giving Paul, Peter, John etc etc visions, I of course have not, do not, will not deny any of those events.

The LORD told the prophet Hosea "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge..." (Hosea 4:6) Today His people are being destroyed by so called "revelation knowledge". The LORD follows the above with a fearful warning "Because you have rejected knowledge, I also reject you as my priests.."

I believe that Pastor Benny Hinn is ministering in a way that pleases God...

Incredible.....So there are 9 members of the Trinity? God did destroy America's homosexuals in 94 or 95? It is well documented that Mr Hinn is false teacher, false prophet, you name it. The only comment I have seen from Mr Hinn vaguely resembling repentance/recantation for his errors was something along the lines of "just joking" about his 9 members of the Trinity line. I think he later said he meant each member of the Godhead had a body, soul, spirit, no Biblical support for that claim either though. The gentleman is lucky he is not in OT times, as there is no Biblical mention of "just joking" being used by a false prophet to avoid God's decreed punishment...

And all this pondering of Mr Hinn's activities has made me think "enough is enough". Am writing email to his site now including most of my quotes on "sits" from this thread. Will be interesting to see if staff have a form letter for questions like this.

Pete

 

[Ray Berrian]

As to nine members of the Trinity . . . .

It sounds to me like the height of misinformation. Could Christian possibly believe this? I don't think so and I don't think this came from his lips.

Pastor Hinn may do the same thing that Mr. Camping does when I Email him. I get stone-walled. He never replies to my response to his 'private interpretations' [II Peter 1:20b] and error.

Many times these kinds of men don't like to have their explanations questioned. Would you agree with this.

 

[wjrighter]

noticed date was around august; so i hope this ain't to late ,but i've noticed the absolute lack of the name of Jesus ,unless their healing,or delivering someone-ain't that Jesus's job?
tbn would do better sticking to the concept of spreading the gospel!

 

[rsr]

I would have left this alone, but I was flipping past and heard Mr. Schambach railing against the "heresy hunters."

SO ...

This campaign is especially egregious, I think. Paula White (who can stretch 10 minutes of material into 90 minutes or more) spent most of her time urging people go to to the phone to make the required pledge:

"The Devil doesn't want you to get up and get to that phone."

"If you can get your hand on the (telephone) receiver, you have a future."

And Mr. Parsley:

"He is the God of your wants, not your needs."

" ' The stock market looks bad.' I'm still getting hundred-fold returns. 'The economy looks bad.' Not in the kingdom."

And finally, from Mr. Crouch's Web page:

I am sick and tired of getting beat up by the heresy hunters on this question: Should we GIVE, expecting to RECEIVE from God? How they rant and rage against this so-called "prosperity gospel." After all, Jesus was poor and we should be like Jesus! We should give out of pure love for God in obedience to His word, never expecting anything but the barest of necessities until we get to heaven! They chew us up and spit us out on their radio programs, books, and newsletters.

So, let me ask you and them one eternal question: DID GOD GIVE HIS SON TO DIE, EXPECTING NOTHING IN RETURN? Well, the answer is so obvious it really does not need an answer!
GOD HAD A NEED—so what did He do? HE GAVE!

Yes, He gave and He gave the very thing He needed. His first family had sinned and betrayed Him—He lost his first son and daughter. Yes, "GOD SO LOVED…THAT HE GAVE." So, what did God RECEIVE? As we have shared many times—God received millions, no, billions of sons and daughters and you, dear Partner, are one of them! Praise the Lord! WE are God's reward for HIS GIVING! God lives by His own law—you HAVE TO GIVE to receive! Yes—

(Pant) Rant over. Sorry for the length of this post, but this doctrine seems truly offensive to the memory of the great martyrs of the faith who faced torture and death for their belief. Too bad they didn't have enough faith -- and the secret of seed faith planting.

P.S. Mike, I hadn't really understand about the "word of faith" before I watched Mrs. White and Mr. Parsley carefully. It can be very powerful and very suggestive.

There was also one odd reference about our being sent from the spirit world to the physical world. Do they believe that we exist before our births?

There. I'll shut up.

[ November 08, 2002, 11:42 PM: Message edited by: rsr ]

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
As to nine members of the Trinity . . . .

It sounds to me like the height of misinformation. Could Christian possibly believe this? I don't think so and I don't think this came from his lips.

I can give you the quote, if you like, but I've given you quotes and references before and you either ignore them or change the subject (and then you accuse me of not wanting to discuss the issues).

[qb]

He never replies to my response to his 'private interpretations' [II Peter 1:20b] and error.

You mean like you never reply to me when I respond to your statements? Good. Now you know how irritating it is when you do it to others.

Many times these kinds of men don't like to have their explanations questioned. Would you agree with this.

Absolutely and by refusing to discuss these things, which you, yourself, brought up you're only helping them.

 

[Ray Berrian]

I too, quickly agree, that the 'prosperity preachers' are way off center as to what we should be preaching and teaching as the Christian Gospel. If we give in order to receive then our motivation is totally incorrect. The love of God within our lives should be our key reason for giving.

 

[Ray Berrian]

Only occasionally have I seen Pastor Hinn. I would like to hear him say, he believes in seven members of the Trinity. Then I would not believe he is even a Christian.

I do listen to Mr. Camping Monday through Friday and only occasionally on his "Open Forum."
I do recognize much error in his teaching ministry. I guess only Jesus can perfectly judge these men. [John 5:22b]

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
Only occasionally have I seen Pastor Hinn. I would like to hear him say, he believes in seven members of the Trinity. Then I would not believe he is even a Christian.

If his statements about the atonement don't convince you, I doubt this will but here is what you asked for.

OK. Aginst my better judgement, I'll give you the quote and the reference (even though you've never answered any of the questions I've asked you) in good faith, trusting that you won't change the subject or avoid it altogether like you have up to this point.

If you choose not to respond or if you change the subject again this time, then please don't ask me for any more quotes or references.

Notice that he prefaces this heretical statement by telling us that it's the product of divine revelation.

Man, I feel revelation knowledge coming on me here....God the Father, ladies an
d gentlemen is a person and He is a triune being by Himself, seperate from the Son and Holy Ghost. Say, what did you say? Hear it, hear it, hear it. See, God the Father is a person, God the Son is a person, God teh Holy Ghost is a person but each one of them is a triune being by Himself. If I can shock you, and maybe I should, there's nine of them. Huh? What did you say? Let me explain: God the Father, ladies and gentlemen is a person with His own personal spirit, with His own personal soul and with His own personal spirit-body. You say, 'Huh? I never heard that!' Well, you think you're in this church to hear things you've heard for the last fifty years? - Benny Hinn program, TBN Oct 3, 1991

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by rsr:
I am sick and tired of getting beat up by the heresy hunters on this question: Should we GIVE, expecting to RECEIVE from God? How they rant and rage against this so-called "prosperity gospel." After all, Jesus was poor and we should be like Jesus! We should give out of pure love for God in obedience to His word, never expecting anything but the barest of necessities until we get to heaven! They chew us up and spit us out on their radio programs, books, and newsletters.

You know, that's actually pretty kind compared to what he's said in the past.

In the past, he's declared anyone who would question what he says to be "damned and on their way to Hell and I don't think there's any hope of redemption for them".

He also called for God to put a curse on Hank Hannegraaf's youngest child.

Nice guy, huh?

(Pant) Rant over. Sorry for the length of this post, but this doctrine seems truly offensive to the memory of the great martyrs of the faith who faced torture and death for their belief. Too bad they didn't have enough faith -- and the secret of seed faith planting.

That quote is offensive on so many levels.

P.S. Mike, I hadn't really understand about the "word of faith" before I watched Mrs. White and Mr. Parsley carefully. It can be very powerful and very suggestive.

Oh, no doubt. It's a very persuasive message because it plays on our emotions and insecurities. That's what makes it so dangerous.

Like I've said before, which God would you rather follow: a God who says "take up your cross and follow Me", demands that you forsake anything that stands between you and Him and tells you that you can expect hard ship and heartache or a God who wants you to be fat and happy all the time and promises that everything will be sunshine, lollipops and rainbows?

Anybody in his right mind would choose the second one.

There was also one odd reference about our being sent from the spirit world to the physical world. Do they believe that we exist before our births?

I'm not sure what that was in reference to but Hinn, Copeland, Kenyon, Branham and others (not all, though. WoF isn't monolithic in it's beliefs anymore than Baptists are) teach that man was pre-exsistant in one form or another

Lately, I've noticed that WoF as a whole tends to borrow, whether intentionally or unintentionally, an awful lot from Mormonism and Christian Science.

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
As to nine members of the Trinity . . . .

It sounds to me like the height of misinformation. Could Christian possibly believe this? I don't think so and I don't think this came from his lips.

There are a lot of sites with pages and pages of text documenting Mr Hinn and Co errors. They always include the date a statement was made, where it was made, and even the tape number. Some pages have audio/video files of Mr Hinn sprouting all these things. There are even videos available showing it all coming straight from the horses mouth. No, I have not brought any, I'ld rather invest in a Hymn Maker CD or new set of guitar strings or something

Pastor Hinn may do the same thing that Mr. Camping does when I Email him. I get stone-walled. He never replies to my response to his 'private interpretations' [II Peter 1:20b] and error.

I fully expect a "form letter" back from Mr Hinn's secretary when I send email shortly...which I won't mind a bit. 1, It would have been an attempt to deliver the warning, & 2, I'll just keep replying to them anyway

Am just sending my notes on "sits" from this thread and see what happens. I should sell tickets, I bet if I get a human written response it will be a good show

Many times these kinds of men don't like to have their explanations questioned. Would you agree with this.

Based on comments attributed to them about what they would like to do to 'heresy hunters', I guess they don't. Which I think is a VERY DANGEROUS way to be. As for myself I would much rather be questioned on my understanding of God's Word than be left in error. If the Hinns of the world were the doctrinally solid, great group of teachers they claim to be, surely they could respond to claims against them with better than the old "curse-their-children-if-they-don't-stop-being-so-nasty-to-me" trick....

Pete

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
Only occasionally have I seen Pastor Hinn. I would like to hear him say, he believes in seven members of the Trinity. Then I would not believe he is even a Christian.

Well?

 

[Mike McK]

Ray? You still there?

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by Titus2_1:
I fully expect a "form letter" back from Mr Hinn's secretary when I send email shortly...

Guess I should stop being so optimistic and expecting so much from that gentleman and/or his staff huh?

I was offline last week, figured someone would have got around to email by now and there would be an interesting reply. Oh well

I guess I'll just have to keep sending the mail until something does happen huh?

Pete

 

[Mike McK]

Hey, ray,

Everything alright?

Any update on your letter, Pete?

Mike

 

[Pete]

G'day Mike.

No, no response yet. My own silly fault really. Asking that gentleman anything about the Bible probably just confused him

Busy weekend here, I plan to resend mail maybe next week sometime. Will keep sending it every month or so until something does happen

Maybe I am just being too cynical and they had a major computer melt-down when they were replying to my mail.....I do doubt it though

Pete

 

[rsr]

I will admit I've been up to mischief. The past few nights I've flipped past Mike Murdock and found him even more shameless -- if that's possible -- than the folks on TBN.

Well, he promises "uncommon protection," or "angels around your home or business."

We are almost to the level of Tetzel, it seems, because we can plant "seed faith" money in the name of our children and grandchildren, to promote "restoration and reconciliation."

Angels will even stand guard "around your car."

And why does he need this money? ($200 a month for three months.) To get into 2 million more homes. Presumably to get $200 a month from them.

"God has drawn you to this program,," he said. Yep. But not for the reasons he thinks.

The mischief?

I called the toll-free number.

"What happens if I don't have any money?"

"We're just a call center in ... Virginia. How can we help you?"

"Well, you've helped me very much."

God help us. It makes one despair of being an evangelical ...

Those folks who worry about "liberal" churches are entirely misinformed. This is the real competition ... and they appear to be winning.

[ December 10, 2002, 11:24 PM: Message edited by: rsr ]

 

[rsr]

BTW, here's what he "writes" about:

Noted author of 115 books, including the best sellers, "Wisdom for Winning", "Dream-Seeds", "The Double Diamond Principle", "Secrets of the Richest Man Who Ever Lived", "The Law of Recognition", and "The Leadership Secrets of Jesus."

 

[butterfly]

hello everyone,my first reply,would this be what the bible calls prostituting the word? any reply's.mathew 10:9

[ December 11, 2002, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: butterfly ]

 

[Pete]

rsr, YOU?? MISCHIEF?!?! I don't believe it...

Actually as a cabbie I could almost agree with the dude about angels standing guard around car

I think I get it already without having to send money to Mr Murdock (whoever he may be (yet another one who has not reached Oz yet...Guess why we are called "The Lucky Country"

))

For a minute when you said you called the toll-free number I thought you were going to say you kept them talking to run their bills up. A call centre though, VERY interesting. I wonder if their email and snail mail addresses are the same way?

Pete

 

[rsr]

I have sometimes groused that folks treat God as an ATM machine. (Read Kenneth Copeland for details.)

But imagine my surprise tonight when I flipped past TBN and found it to be true.

The preacher -- whose name I did not stay long enough to learn -- said God sent her to a cash machine. She checked her balance, and it was zero.

God told her to get $20 from the machine.

Lo and behold, it gave her $20.

The God said, "How much do you need?"

"I need $600."

Amazingly, $600 appeared from the machine.

[ December 19, 2002, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: rsr ]