Hermeneutical Principle in Interpreting Scripture

[Yeshua1]

In the book of John, according to Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, all of the occurrences of "believe" refer to #4100. This is said to come from 4102: "to have faith in," "to entrust," "to commit," "to rely upon," (Christ, especially for one's spiritual well-being; assurance).

While faith may ebb and flow, eternal life is continuous. In fact, while God gives us faith, that is not the reason why He saves us. His reason is mercy and love. He called His elect from before the foundation of the world. (See specifically, Ephesians 1, Ephesians 2, and Romans 8).

More could be said. Would anyone like to comment?

Salvation is based upon the will of God, His plans and purposes, for His choosing is NOT based at all upon what we can do/bring to the table, as all are dead in His sight!

 

[TCassidy]

More could be said. Would anyone like to comment?

Well, yeah.

according to Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, all of the occurrences of "believe" refer to #4100

Do you just ignore the cognates?

 

[Mr. Davis]

Well, yeah.
Do you just ignore the cognates?

Please forgive me, I did!

In my book on NT Greek Word Families, there are a total of 19 Greek words for
variations on Believe (aren't some of these cognates?)

Would love to hear more of what you have to say.

 

[agedman]

Well, yeah.

Do you just ignore the cognates?

No, I prefer diet Dr. Pepper.

Oh, you were referring to etymology not whiskey.

 

[utilyan]

In the book of John, according to Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, all of the occurrences of "believe" refer to #4100. This is said to come from 4102: "to have faith in," "to entrust," "to commit," "to rely upon," (Christ, especially for one's spiritual well-being; assurance).

While faith may ebb and flow, eternal life is continuous. In fact, while God gives us faith, that is not the reason why He saves us. His reason is mercy and love. He called His elect from before the foundation of the world. (See specifically, Ephesians 1, Ephesians 2, and Romans 8).

More could be said. Would anyone like to comment?

If your already assured of salvation thats not hope. In the same chapter Paul explains it.

Romans 8
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?


He never guarantees himself Salvation, of people who do guarantee and self-proclaim salvation, exactly as he says, HOPE THAT IS SEEN IS NOT HOPE.


This is the phrase you have to battle. HOPE THAT IS SEEN IS NOT HOPE. We are saved by HOPE.

 

[revmwc]

klētós is the word and has this meaning, invited (by God in the proclamation of the Gospel) to obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom through Christ. Many are invited, but few are the Chosen. How do they become the Chosen? We see 1 Peter 1:2 elect according to the prógnōsis="Foreknowledge" is one aspect of omniscience; it is implied in God's warnings, promises and predictions. In His Omniscience God elected those whom He elected. By His Omniscience that foreknowledge. Many are called and like many Jews rejected the Call. Who did Jesus come to call:
Mark 2:17
When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Who are the sinners? Everyone for all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God. Jesus calls all sinners, but not all answer the call, for few become the Chosen. But God knows in His Omniscience the choice people will make. If He doesn't then He is not all Knowing.
Psalm 147:5

Great is our Lord and abundant in strength; His understanding is infinite.
Is it? Well if it is infinite then He knows every single person who will be born and who will be saved and He knows them before they are ever born for His understanding is infinite.
We see
1 John 3:20

in whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things.

He knows all things therefore we are elect by His Foreknowledge.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

If your [sic] already assured of salvation thats not hope.

'And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence to the full assurance of hope until the end' (Hebrews 6:11).
'This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters the Presence behind the veil.....' (Hebrews 6:19).

 

[Revmitchell]

Salvation is based upon the will of God, His plans and purposes, for His choosing is NOT based at all upon what we can do/bring to the table, as all are dead in His sight!

I agree with all of that although I am sure i define dead differently than you

 

[TCassidy]

How many different kinds of "dead" are there?

 

[HankD]

If you were " A spiritually DEAD" person then you would already been destroyed with nothing to save.


"All corruptible natures therefore are natures at all only so far as they are from God, nor would they be corruptible if they were of Him; because they would be what He himself is. Therefore of whatever measure, of whatever form, of whatever order, they are, they are so because it is God by whom they were made; but they are not immutable, because it is nothing of which they were made. For it is sacrilegious audacity to make nothing and God equal, as when we wish to make what has been born of God such as what has been made by Him out of nothing." --St. Augustine


St. Augustine makes a point here. You can't start spiritually dead because then you claim to be a GOD who makes things from nothing.

God created you. Now after your creation you can become corrupt. But if you become so corrupt that there is nothing GOOD, "Totally Depraved" , Then your nature ceases to exist, you have been destroyed.

There is NOTHING TO SAVE THERE. Think about it, Murder and Rape are evil things. Do you think God will save MURDER to bring to heaven?

If there is absolutely NOTHING good about you, if you are totally depraved, your nature is equated with sin like murder. There is absolutely NOTHING there to save.

This all comes from a mistake of FALSE HUMILITY. Its a good start for a sinner to say "i am good for nothing" and repent ect. But thats not the best start nor the whole truth. His skewed view is self refuting. IE. IF he is good for nothing , he is also not good for judging himself.

This in essence is my beef against "Total Depravity" as a shorthand phrase to explain our sin nature.

Is the image of God good or bad?

The reason we are admonished against speaking evil (cursing) of our fellow man is that we are made in the image of our Creator.

James 3
8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

Yes, we are sinners by inheritance and nature yet somehow we retain the image and likeness of God.

HankD

 

[Revmitchell]

I hold to human depravity but reject total inability

 

[HankD]

I hold to human depravity but reject total inability

Couldn't you say that we are totally unable to do anything about our lost estate until or unless God provided that ability?

IMO, This is the central difference between C and A - to whom does He provide this ability?

ALL or a FEW - leading to a choice.

ALL - some of the ALL will, most won't.
FEW - all of the FEW will.

Either way it ends up as FEW.

Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

HankD

 

[TCassidy]

Is the image of God good or bad?

Total Depravity has nothing to do with the creation of man in the image and likeness of God.

Total Depravity simply says all three parts of man were affected by the fall.

The body was affected by the fall. Now subject to sickness and death.

The soul of man was affected by the fall. (The soul is the will, intellect, and emotions,) The imaginings (thinking) of the heart were only evil continually.

The spirit of man was affected by the fall. The spirit of man is what links him to God. The spirit died in the fall (perfect fellowship was broken.)

If you have a problem with all parts of man being affected by the fall, which part, body, soul, or spirit, was unaffected by the fall and is still in its perfect created condition?

 

[Revmitchell]

Couldn't you say that we are totally unable to do anything about our lost estate until or unless God provided that ability?

IMO, This is the central difference between C and A - to whom does He provide this ability?

ALL or a FEW - leading to a choice.

ALL - some of the ALL will, most won't.
FEW - all of the FEW will.

HankD

The ability comes from the preaching of the gospel Romans 1:16; 10:17 we have the God given ability from birth regardless of our sin. Romans 1:20 There is no extra supernatural ability needed or provided at the moment of salvation. Scripture no where bears that out it is only assumed due to faulty understanding of what spiritually dead means. When we are spiritually dead we are dead like the prodigal not like Lazarus.

 

[Revmitchell]

Total Depravity has nothing to do with the creation of man in the image and likeness of God.

Total Depravity simply says all three parts of man were affected by the fall.

The body was affected by the fall. Now subject to sickness and death.

The soul of man was affected by the fall. (The soul is the will, intellect, and emotions,) The imaginings (thinking) of the heart were only evil continually.

The spirit of man was affected by the fall. The spirit of man is what links him to God. The spirit died in the fall (perfect fellowship was broken.)

If you have a problem with all parts of man being affected by the fall, which part, body, soul, or spirit, was unaffected by the fall and is still in its perfect created condition?

I do not have a problem with any of those.

 

[HankD]

Total Depravity has nothing to do with the creation of man in the image and likeness of God.

Total Depravity simply says all three parts of man were affected by the fall.

The body was affected by the fall. Now subject to sickness and death.

The soul of man was affected by the fall. (The soul is the will, intellect, and emotions,) The imaginings (thinking) of the heart were only evil continually.

The spirit of man was affected by the fall. The spirit of man is what links him to God. The spirit died in the fall (perfect fellowship was broken.)

That's why I worded my objection to "Total Depravity" the way I did.

"This in essence is my beef against 'Total Depravity' as a shorthand phrase to explain our sin nature"

T - Total Depravity - first in the acrostic of TULIP.

If you have a problem with all parts of man being affected by the fall, which part, body, soul, or spirit, was unaffected by the fall and is still in its perfect created condition?

Not my problem, that is why I eagerly look forward to the resurrection.

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

HankD

 

[TCassidy]

That's why I worded my objection to "Total Depravity" the way I did.

"This in essence is my beef against 'Total Depravity' as a shorthand phrase to explain our sin nature"

T - Total Depravity - first in the acrostic of TULIP.



Not my problem, that is why I eagerly look forward to the resurrection.

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

HankD

So, what then, exactly, is your objection to Total Depravity?

 

[HankD]

So, what then, exactly, is your objection to Total Depravity?

It is used as a shorthand phrase to explain our sin nature and I don't like it because IMO it casts aspersions upon the image of God.

Is the image of God evil?

HankD

 

[Revmitchell]

It is used as a shorthand phrase to explain our sin nature and I don't like it because IMO it casts aspersions upon the image of God.

Is the image of God evil?

HankD

Or it at the least would have to mean that there is absolutely no image of God left in us.

 

[HankD]

Or it at the least would have to mean that there is absolutely no image of God left in us.

OK it is a signature labeled doctrine of calvinism and leads to the misrepresentation (IMO) of our state of corruption due to original sin.

I agree with Dr Tom's further explanation.

Secondly I don't like putting the names of men on my beliefs (Some say I am of ... etc) or other popular signatory associations.

e. g. Doctrines of Grace - much better.

But then again where would we find such a volley of sword clashing apart from our C versus A Forum?



HankD