1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

His determinate counsel

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Jarthur001, Oct 26, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 8 of 18
  1. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    It'll probably take him a while to read through 11 chapters of your "bullet proof scriptural argument" :)
     
    #141 webdog, Oct 31, 2007
  2. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    2
    As often as I think it's a futile exercise, I would rather debate with you than with someone who makes an outrageous statement, slaps some scripture references into a post with no quotes or explanation, and then runs away to hide.
     
    #142 npetreley, Oct 31, 2007
  3. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Messages:
    2,879
    Likes Received:
    0

    Actually after rethinking it I have to disagree with this all together. Men do not make choices toward God as a result of their nature. Our nature is sinnful and cannot choose God. This does not change after our promise of salvation. we must be guided by the Holy Ghost to avoid being controlled by our current sin nature. 1 cor 2:14
     
    #143 2 Timothy2:1-4, Oct 31, 2007
  4. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Messages:
    2,879
    Likes Received:
    0
    What you are doing is both intentionally misrepresenting what I have done, assigning motives you cannot back up, and acting in a hostile manner that you do not deserve. And it all started because I asked you for some scrpture reference.

    I do not know what you hostility is about. But this is the second time you have used this tactic with me. I have neither been hostile nor have I ever conducted my self with you in this same manner.

    None of my statements have been outrageous. That is quite the exageration. and it certainly was not made toward anything you said. Your behavior is inapprorpiate.
     
    #144 2 Timothy2:1-4, Oct 31, 2007
  5. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    2
    How so? You continue to refuse to explain or back up your statement about how a description of man's choice is in direct contradiction to irresistible grace. You listed a bunch of verses with no quotes or explanation. That is exactly what I said, and it's all true.

    I beg to differ. RB said this.

    To which you replied...

    I find the statement, "it here it is in direct conflict with irresistible grace" to be outrageous. I even explained that "irresistible" can be interpreted more than one way (which needs no scripture to understand or defend). But you stand by the statement without any support for it other than a handful of scripture references with no quotes or explanation.

    Back it up. Explain why it must be in direct conflict with irresistible grace. Use scripture to support your statement WITH explanation as to WHY the scripture supports your statement. Or just cry "you're hostile" and run away. Whatever.
     
    #145 npetreley, Oct 31, 2007
  6. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Messages:
    2,879
    Likes Received:
    0
    What the board can see is that your hostilities began not with my disagreement with reformed but with asking you for scripture reference. it was only after that that you found my conversation with reformed. You were already outraged. Heaven forbid someone ask for that. Since then it has been nothing but redirection by way of childish tactics and unfounded outrage about something that wasn't directed to you.

    So we can see the real problem doesn't lie in my discussion with reformed but it actually lies with my asking you for scripture. Heaven forbid. And I avoid attacks form folks like you because It is equvilent to playing with rabid dogs. Alot of emotion and rhetoric.
     
    #146 2 Timothy2:1-4, Oct 31, 2007
  7. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    2
    Okay. You chose to cry, "you're hostile!" and run away. Whatever.
     
    #147 npetreley, Oct 31, 2007
  8. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,701
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gods decree is based on what? Not based on mans heart.

    :)
     
    #148 Jarthur001, Oct 31, 2007
  9. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,701
    Likes Received:
    0
    again...it is not mans heart that controls....


    Therefore God does not elect based on mans foreseen heart, but base on His pleasure.

    no? :)
     
    #149 Jarthur001, Oct 31, 2007
  10. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,701
    Likes Received:
    0
    Now if it can be Foreloved....and it is clear it can be...

    Then based on the passage in Romans all are saved....or it means Foreloved. :)


     
    #150 Jarthur001, Oct 31, 2007
  11. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,701
    Likes Received:
    0
     
    #151 Jarthur001, Oct 31, 2007
  12. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,701
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am not supra, but like you think it should be considered.

    I in no way am "sub" which I think is based on mans feelings.
     
    #152 Jarthur001, Oct 31, 2007
  13. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    2
    If "know" is intellectual knowledge of, then when Jesus says, "I never knew [ginosko] you", does that mean Jesus was ignorant of their existence? ;)
     
    #153 npetreley, Oct 31, 2007
  14. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,701
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree. And I asked this very thing on the now closed "who did Christ die for" thread.
    NEVER is the key word.


    BTW...no answer then...my guess is no answer again

    :)
     
    #154 Jarthur001, Oct 31, 2007
  15. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,701
    Likes Received:
    0
    I said a few pages back something about Gods "Arena of Play".

    This is where it is clearly seen that man makes a choice, but God setup the arena for that choice, and so you can see also God in full control.

    Just like the passage below. Read and watch how Joseph jumb from you guys did this...to God did this. So who did it?

    Mans choice, but God controlled the choice...so in the end it was God in control all along.

     
    #155 Jarthur001, Oct 31, 2007
  16. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,701
    Likes Received:
    0
    For who hath resisted His will?" (Rom. 9:19)

    The verse sounds simple. We have heard it many times. but think about it....

    Who can resist His will?
     
    #156 Jarthur001, Oct 31, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2007
  17. reformedbeliever

    reformedbeliever New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,306
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why, you should know this by now James, free willers can. :thumbsup:
     
    #157 reformedbeliever, Oct 31, 2007
  18. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    2
    And they're dang proud of it, too.

    Wait...
     
    #158 npetreley, Oct 31, 2007
  19. Allan

    Allan Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,902
    Likes Received:
    5
    Unfortunately James it can not be because it is not proagape, proeros, nor is it prophileo. The love you keep insisting upon (which is really only an aspect of knowledge) is not the love found between two people but actually is an IDIOM used to refer to sexual relations, or what is known as carnal knowledge. Remember:
    But if you will note there is not one thing about 'love' specifically in those distinctives of the definition of knowledge.

    Again, only if you FORCE the text. Your version of interchanging it with 'love' which is actaully a sexual carnal knowledge is not really a good idea. So I doubt you want to go there in your pursuit to force your preconcieved meaning upon the word.

    It refers to the fact that those who He did foreknow He determined in that certain things. To go beyond that is to reach into the unsearchable councel of God.

    Please remember, I do not dispute that Love CAN BE implied via the content but it not the primary rendering.
     
    #159 Allan, Oct 31, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 1, 2007
  20. Allan

    Allan Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,902
    Likes Received:
    5
    No one can, Nor can anyone resist Gods decision to will that man must choose :)
     
    #160 Allan, Oct 31, 2007
Page 8 of 18
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...