Historic VS Contemporary Arminianism

[thomas15]

...going to visit the sick.....

That's one way to get the lame to walk,,,,I mean flee..

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

EWF...

you posted...





Brother, the heartbeat of the gosple of Jesus christ is, and always will be, justification by faith alone.

As opposed to to the "God churning out robots" gosple of calvinism.[/QUOTE]

So in other words, I respond to you in love & kindness, painstakingly detailing my answers & you respond with an (INSULT). Great, we will never speak together again....I promise you that.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

That's one way to get the lame to walk,,,,I mean flee..

LOL---sincerely hope your joking!

 

[Alive in Christ]

EWF...
you posted...

So in other words, I respond to you in love & kindness, painstakingly detailing my answers & you respond with an (INSULT). Great, we will never speak together again....I promise you that.

Huh??

Good grief, talk about an OVER REACTION.

What I posted was LAME as can be. No more problmatic that calvinists accusing us of preaching a works salvation.

The robot analogy very very common in calvinism/non cal conversations, and this is the 1st time I have ever in any way seen this kind of reaction.



I am sorry I upsetted you to this degree. Even so...

God bless you

 

[Yeshua1]

Let me understand (Regarding Election) -- is it not ultimately determined by individual choice? Further, isnt the Arminian position that divine sovereignty must somehow be accommodated to human capability? If Im wrong, then correct me. We DoG believers see that your brand of Election & Salvation are not totally divine decrees. I think thats what "Y"is saying.

Think asiest way to seperate these 2 schools of theology is on what basis is the election of God made?

Individual or corporate?
Based upon Will of God foremost, or based upon what man decides to do?

One is pro active, other re active!

 

[Yeshua1]

EWF...

you posted...





Brother, the heartbeat of the gosple of Jesus christ is, and always will be, justification by faith alone.

As opposed to to the "God churning out robots" gosple of calvinism.

saved by the object of the faith though, not by the faith!

 

[Yeshua1]

Many times I struggle to find a place where I agree with you theologically. This thread is an exception. Not so much your theology but your assessment of the thinking and methods of others on this board. I refer to the sledgehammer approach popular with some trying to make their case for reformed theology.

I received an email today from a well known reformed bookstore advertising a huge moving sale up to 40% off, free shipping on orders over $35.00 All of their books on dispensationalism (for example) are written by non-dispensationalists. They sell one book critical of Calvinism and the owner of the bookstore actually has a disclaimer and urges anyone interested in the book to purchase another with it that offers a pro-calvinistic view. You know, balance error with truth. I use this as an illustration of how many reformed think. They are correct in their minds and everyone else reeks of sulfur.

Oh boy! I would be in trouble ordering anyhting from that store, as I am BOTH calvinistic and Dispy!

 

[Alive in Christ]

Yesua1

you posted...

saved by the object of the faith though, not by the faith!

Agreed

And the sinner, personally, is the only one who can enter into the saving relationship with Christ.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yesua1

you posted...



Agreed

And the sinner, personally, is the only one who can enter into the saving relationship with Christ.

yes, we all hold that a sinner must receive jesus by faith to get saved, but the fact that he can even do that would be the result of Gods election of/towards Him!

 

[Alive in Christ]

Yesua1...

You posted...

yes, we all hold that a sinner must receive jesus by faith to get saved, but the fact that he can even do that would be the result of Gods election of/towards Him!

That is correct, in the sense that God is calling EVERYONE to come to Him. no exceptions. Everyone, not just certain *Lucky* ones.

The scriptures proclaim that it is "Not Gods will that ANYONE be lost, but that ALL come to repentance." (many scriptures support)

Everyone, not just certain *Lucky* ones. EVERYone are called.

 

[thomas15]

LOL---sincerely hope your joking!

A rare moment but yes I'm joking

 

[thomas15]

Oh boy! I would be in trouble ordering anyhting from that store, as I am BOTH calvinistic and Dispy!

I'm also but I'm starting to have second thoughts about the Calvin part.

 

[Yeshua1]

I'm also but I'm starting to have second thoughts about the Calvin part.

Why would that be?

 

[thomas15]

Why would that be?

I have not made up my mind about limited attonement.

 

[HisWitness]

I have not made up my mind about limited attonement.

I do believe that Salvation is ALL Grace and is 100% of the Lord.

But if limited atonement is true--that would make Christ's Power look weak and limited--which we know is NOT true.

God's desire and purpose and will was always that ALL men be saved--Men like to use that word all and say that it just means some--well I agree in the fact that God chooses some men in this generation and some in the next and so on--But ALL was lost in the fall through Adam,and God placed all under sin through adam.

Christ came to seek and save THAT(all mankind that was lost through adam)which was lost,He never said he would bring them in all at the same time(there is still Judgement)but he did say that ALL men would be drawn unto his self if he be lifted up.And God's word does not go out and fail in what it purposes to do according to his will :love2::love2::love2:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I have not made up my mind about limited attonement.

Tom...please allow me to be frank with you. I am sincerely confused by the remarks I read in some of your posts. To me anyway you appear to show distain for DoG & the systematic theology that goes with it. Anyone could throw rocks at it...heck I have had heated arguements over it myself...but there are core principles we as DoG believers hold dear...and we will contest that we find them in scriptures.

Others here might read into your last post that you have sitcking point with Particular Atonement & with some coaching you will see your way through...I don't know though. See I'm not sure that your not looking forsomething youwant trouser to keep you where you are.

So please help me to understand your true motives.,id need to know that before entering into serious dialog with you.

 

[Yeshua1]

I have not made up my mind about limited attonement.

I understand, for when I moved from being an Evangelical Arminian to a calvinist, was stuck on 4 points, with limited atonement sticking me!

Now realise I misunderstood that view, for I thought mrant that death of Christ was limited to how effective it was to save, bu actually, means that the effect to save was intended for just the Elect of God, that He did not die to atone for the sins of those who were to remain in their sins .

IF Jesus really died for ALL men, as many hold here, that would mean either univeralism, or else jesus death purchased a potential salvation only, and up to us in the end to get saved or not!

 

[MB]

I pulled this out of a more detailed commentary by Dr. C. Matthew McMahon @ Puratan's Mind. He states:

"Today’s Arminians are not necessarily the same caliber as those of old. Historic Arminianism is altogether heretical. However, contemporary Arminianism is often confusing; it melds together a number of different theological ideas to come up with a theological “soup”. Some things contemporary Arminians believe are radically different than historic Arminians"

What do you think...is this true?

Arminianism like Calvinism are identical in McMahon's description according to history. I've found that most of those who would reform the RCC are so much like it them selves they don't have any idea on what to reform. In fact most have forgotten that it was the Catholic faith they originally wanted to reform. They ended up reforming them selves in to something other than true Calvinism or Augustinianism which they originally clung to. Giving up infant baptism and inherited election. Wavering in the wind like a reed from one doctrine to another. Well at least Calvin said there is no Salvation apart from the Holy Roman Church. Therefore it is no surprise that Calvinist today are flocking back into the old RCC
MB

 

[Yeshua1]

Arminianism like Calvinism are identical in McMahon's description according to history. I've found that most of those who would reform the RCC are so much like it them selves they don't have any idea on what to reform. In fact most have forgotten that it was the Catholic faith they originally wanted to reform. They ended up reforming them selves in to something other than true Calvinism or Augustinianism which they originally clung to. Giving up infant baptism and inherited election. Wavering in the wind like a reed from one doctrine to another. Well at least Calvin said there is no Salvation apart from the Holy Roman Church. Therefore it is no surprise that Calvinist today are flocking back into the old RCC
MB

Are you sure calvin was not referring to the Holy cathlic Church, in the sense of the true saved of God?

Hard to believe a fervant reformer would end up agreeing with same church that he saw as being NOT taeching the true Gospel of Christ!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Arminianism like Calvinism are identical in McMahon's description according to history. I've found that most of those who would reform the RCC are so much like it them selves they don't have any idea on what to reform. In fact most have forgotten that it was the Catholic faith they originally wanted to reform. They ended up reforming them selves in to something other than true Calvinism or Augustinianism which they originally clung to. Giving up infant baptism and inherited election. Wavering in the wind like a reed from one doctrine to another. Well at least Calvin said there is no Salvation apart from the Holy Roman Church. Therefore it is no surprise that Calvinist today are flocking back into the old RCC
MB

Well is this forum is any indication, its the Baptists converting to Catholicism, not the Calvinists. Personally I think their farther removed that anyone can be (referring to Baptists holding to DoG)