Historic VS Contemporary Arminianism

[MB]

Are you sure calvin was not referring to the Holy cathlic Church, in the sense of the true saved of God?

Hard to believe a fervant reformer would end up agreeing with same church that he saw as being NOT taeching the true Gospel of Christ!

You really should read the institutes of Christianity. Even after the reformation was under way Calvin place his daughter in the care of Nuns in a convent because he couldn't take care of her being so busy and all. You would be sadly mistaken if you believe Calvin wasn't a true Catholic. He was he just disagreed with the way the church was going. So he moved to Geneva and worked real hard to form his own Catholic church with him as pope.
MB

 

[Rippon]

You really should read the institutes of Christianity. Even after the reformation was under way Calvin place his daughter in the care of Nuns in a convent because he couldn't take care of her being so busy and all.

That is utterly untrue. He had three children who all died in their infancy. None were in the care of a nunnery.

You would be sadly mistaken if you believe Calvin wasn't a true Catholic. He was he just disagreed with the way the church was going.

Where do you get all your misinformation? Or do you just make it up along the way?

Calvin was against the Roman Catholic Church. He wrote against the Council of Trent. He wrote against Cardinal Sadolet.

So he moved to Geneva and worked real hard to form his own Catholic church with him as pope.
MB

LOL! You are a trip.

 

[Yeshua1]

That is utterly untrue. He had three children who all died in their infancy. None were in the care of a nunnery.




Where do you get all your misinformation? Or do you just make it up along the way?

Calvin was against the Roman Catholic Church. He wrote against the Council of Trent. He wrote against Cardinal Sadolet.



LOL! You are a trip.

MB must have gotten Calvin mixed up with his eveil twin brother, jack calvin!

 

[MB]

That is utterly untrue. He had three children who all died in their infancy. None were in the care of a nunnery.




Where do you get all your misinformation? Or do you just make it up along the way?

Calvin was against the Roman Catholic Church. He wrote against the Council of Trent. He wrote against Cardinal Sadolet.



LOL! You are a trip.

You talk like a hippie. You haven't got any Idea either about John Calvin because you've never read any of his works. Just a clanging symbol
MB

 

[Rippon]

You talk like a hippie. You haven't got any Idea either about John Calvin because you've never read any of his works. Just a clanging symbol
MB

You are saying things untrue. Right now I am in his his sermons on Micah.It's very edifying. But I know you are not into that kind of stuff.

You have never read any of my threads on John Calvin. But why should you be interested in telling the truth? It wouldn't serve your purposes.

 

[Yeshua1]

You are saying things untrue. Right now I am in his his sermons on Micah.It's very edifying. But I know you are not into that kind of stuff.

You have never read any of my threads on John Calvin. But why should you be interested in telling the truth? It wouldn't serve your purposes.

To MB, Calvin probably was a heretic who brought us calvinism....

 

[MB]

You are saying things untrue. Right now I am in his his sermons on Micah.It's very edifying. But I know you are not into that kind of stuff.

You have never read any of my threads on John Calvin. But why should you be interested in telling the truth? It wouldn't serve your purposes.

By your accusations you prove your self ignorant about Calvin. Of course you being a Calvinist makes you biased in your assumptions about what I had to say about him. Calvin was Augustinian in his beliefs. That alone proves he was a Catholic. Augustinianism is still claimed by the Catholic church. There was nothing good about the man. He sought to be a pope of his own making. All of what I have said about him is written about in secular history. Look out side of the box on Calvin that is the box of biased views and you'll see the truth for your self. How ever you won't do that because you can't stand the idea of real truth. You only seek to suppress any thing negative about Calvin because he is so precious to you.
MB

 

[MB]

To MB, Calvin probably was a heretic who brought us calvinism....

Calvin didn't even introduce what is now called by his name. Augustine wrote it and the Catholic church followed it and still does in some aspects.
Calvin was nothing more than a traitor to his catholic faith. Not even Calvinist follow all of Calvin's beliefs.
MB

 

[12strings]

You really should read the institutes of Christianity. Even after the reformation was under way Calvin place his daughter in the care of Nuns in a convent because he couldn't take care of her being so busy and all.

For the historians...Here is all I could find...it seems there is some confusion about Calvin's children, and not much information:

Calvin spoke very little of his home life, unlike Martin Luther, so after much research it appears to me that no one knows the gender of the children that Idelette de Bure brought to their marriage. In fact, there is question as to how many children John Calvin and Idelette had after their marriage. Certainly he had an infant son that died in 1542. Some biographies, however, suggest that he had three children. The other two, they say, were daughters who also died in infancy.

Schaff says this is a mistake. Dr. Jules Bonnet published a collection of letters by John Calvin, and included is a letter to Viret, the Genevan reformer, commenting on the death of an infant daughter. Schaff says this is impossible because in Responsio ad Balduini Convitia, written in 1561, Calvin mentions that God had given him a little son, then taken him away. There is no mention of any other children. Further, Nicolas Colladon, a friend of John Calvin's later in Geneva, wrote in his biography that Idolette had but one son from John Calvin.

- See more at: http://www.christian-history.org/john-calvin.html#sthash.oW21qiM9.dpuf

If this Daughter story is true, (And I could find nothing about it at all) it is likely one of his step-children from his wife who died early, not a biological child...which everyone agrees he had none that survived infancy.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Calvin didn't even introduce what is now called by his name. Augustine wrote it and the Catholic church followed it and still does in some aspects.
Calvin was nothing more than a traitor to his catholic faith. Not even Calvinist follow all of Calvin's beliefs.
MB

Calvin's genius lay not in conceiving new ideas but in developing the thought of his predecessors, expressing these with an eloquence equaled only by Augustine, and formulating their practical implications into a system. From Luther he took the justification or election by faith; from Zwingli the spiritual interpretation of the Eucharist & from Bucer the belief that the divine will as the cause of all events, and the requirement of a strenuous practical piety as the test and witness of election.

 

[12strings]

There was nothing good about the man.

It's very hard to take you seriously when you say things like this...Calvin loved his wife, he believed Jesus died and rose from the dead, He rightly saw errors in the Catholic church doctrine & practice, He was a Human being created in God's image...It makes it very difficult to focus on your valid criticisms of him when you say things like this that are obviously untrue.

You only seek to suppress any thing negative about Calvin because he is so precious to you.

Calvin is not precious to me, but stating true facts is. I would defend an Atheist if he were accused of cannibalism, and I knew he didn't do it. Doesn't mean I agree with his atheism.

 

[12strings]

You would be sadly mistaken if you believe Calvin wasn't a true Catholic. He was he just disagreed with the way the church was going. So he moved to Geneva and worked real hard to form his own Catholic church with him as pope. MB

Hypothetical Question: Let's suppose you were in a heavily Roman Catholic Area, with no way to move to a different area...You begin to read your bible, and realize the RC False teaching, You are truly converted...So you LEAVE the RC church and start a new church, with different teaching...DOES THIS MEAN YOU ARE A ROMAN CATHOLIC, SINCE YOU CAME OUT OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH? ALSO, WOULD YOU ACCUSE YOURSELF OF MAKING YOURSELF THE NEW POPE?

(I say no...lineage does not determine truth). Luther, zwingli, Calvin, Menno...cannot be called catholic in the common sense of the word because they came out of the catholic church, And founded new churches with scripture preaching at the center.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Hypothetical Question: Let's suppose you were in a heavily Roman Catholic Area, with no way to move to a different area...You begin to read your bible, and realize the RC False teaching, You are truly converted...So you LEAVE the RC church and start a new church, with different teaching...DOES THIS MEAN YOU ARE A ROMAN CATHOLIC, SINCE YOU CAME OUT OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH? ALSO, WOULD YOU ACCUSE YOURSELF OF MAKING YOURSELF THE NEW POPE?

ROFL.... WOW, you just described my situation.....that is FUNNY!:laugh:

Or do you become Thinking Stuff & revert to Catholicism totally??? Same stuff, different day.:tonofbricks:

 

[MB]

It's very hard to take you seriously when you say things like this...Calvin loved his wife, he believed Jesus died and rose from the dead, He rightly saw errors in the Catholic church doctrine & practice, He was a Human being created in God's image...It makes it very difficult to focus on your valid criticisms of him when you say things like this that are obviously untrue.

What can I say it's hard to argue for a man with murderous intentions involved in his reformation
With concern I tell people the truth about Calvin and his doctrines. I have studied the man and the doctrines he promoted. He would have been branded a cult leader in today's society. He was a dictator of his religion he forced every one in Switzerland to either be Calvinist or be thrown in prison or worse, some even being put to death for non belief of Calvinism. Many Calvinist like you know the truth and refuse to be called by his name. Preferring to be known simply as reformers. why? because they know what I'm writing is true. Any body can go on the net and find the truth of Calvin's murderous exploits. Besides just look at all the stuff told by Calvinist about freewillers. If Calvinism is true then why is it, it was never heard of before the 3rd century. I'll tell you why because it cannot be shown from scripture with out taken separate scriptures out of text and the lies Calvinist tell to go along with it.

Calvin is not precious to me, but stating true facts is. I would defend an Atheist if he were accused of cannibalism, and I knew he didn't do it. Doesn't mean I agree with his atheism.

Well there you go. You don't know about Calvin and what it was like in Geneva during his life there. You've never ventured to learn the truth but because you believe as he did is why you defend him. He burned people at the stake for non belief. This tells me he was a hateful man who wanted to dominate the beliefs of everyone. He wasn't the only Calvinist that did this others learned it from him too like the puritans.
MB

 

[MB]

Hypothetical Question: Let's suppose you were in a heavily Roman Catholic Area, with no way to move to a different area...You begin to read your bible, and realize the RC False teaching, You are truly converted...So you LEAVE the RC church and start a new church, with different teaching...DOES THIS MEAN YOU ARE A ROMAN CATHOLIC, SINCE YOU CAME OUT OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH? ALSO, WOULD YOU ACCUSE YOURSELF OF MAKING YOURSELF THE NEW POPE?

Ahhhh! You have a point although you wouldn't become Pope but a preacher who preaches the Bible not influenced by the Lies you were told before hand.
Calvinist kept the original doctrine of the church and left because the Popes had changed it in to something else. They still believed man needed to be the center head of the church. A pope. A vicar of Christ. Presbyterians still call there ministers Vicar

(I say no...lineage does not determine truth). Luther, zwingli, Calvin, Menno...cannot be called catholic in the common sense of the word because they came out of the catholic church, And founded new churches with scripture preaching at the center.

Really? Those who wrote the London declaration 2000 disagree with you. read under " "A" Under a vision for reformation" they write and I quote "Such a vision is of a church which is both Catholic and reformed". Really you do need to do some reading.
MB

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

How come I never hear anything negative about Luther in this Forum? Perhaps we should opine over men like John of Leyden & Jan Matthys who used the front of Anabaptist-ism as a clever disguise for rank communism. Under that banner of hypocrisy they started wars which led to untold murders & massacres en masse. Please tell me that story. Let us disgust that little story ad nauseum

Calvin takes the rap simply because he is associated with a movement despised by Non-Calvinists. This conversation is just another trigger to starting another argument.

 

[MB]

Calvin's genius lay not in conceiving new ideas but in developing the thought of his predecessors, expressing these with an eloquence equaled only by Augustine, and formulating their practical implications into a system. From Luther he took the justification or election by faith; from Zwingli the spiritual interpretation of the Eucharist & from Bucer the belief that the divine will as the cause of all events, and the requirement of a strenuous practical piety as the test and witness of election.

Sorry I could not help but laugh at that last part about Piety and witness of election. Not one Calvinist can prove definitively they are truly elect. Not one of you. You simply have nothing to be Pious about. The only thing I have observed that is truth in Calvinism and I'll give you credit for it is that you do believe in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ and that alone in my opinion can save you despite the other stuff.
MB

 

[MB]

How come I never hear anything negative about Luther in this Forum? Perhaps we should opine over men like John of Leyden & Jan Matthys who used the front of Anabaptist-ism as a clever disguise for rank communism. Under that banner of hypocrisy they started wars which led to untold murders & massacres en masse. Please tell me that story. Let us disgust that little story ad nauseum

Calvin takes the rap simply because he is associated with a movement despised by Non-Calvinists. This conversation is just another trigger to starting another argument.

I'm not trying to start an argument. I'm trying to give you the truth. Why would I do that? Because truth is important.
MB

 

[12strings]

What can I say it's hard to argue for a man with murderous intentions involved in his reformation With concern I tell people the truth about Calvin and his doctrines. I have studied the man and the doctrines he promoted. He would have been branded a cult leader in today's society. He was a dictator of his religion he forced every one in Switzerland to either be Calvinist or be thrown in prison or worse, some even being put to death for non belief of Calvinism. Many Calvinist like you know the truth and refuse to be called by his name. Preferring to be known simply as reformers. why? because they know what I'm writing is true. Any body can go on the net and find the truth of Calvin's murderous exploits.

Well there you go. You don't know about Calvin and what it was like in Geneva during his life there. You've never ventured to learn the truth but because you believe as he did is why you defend him. He burned people at the stake for non belief. This tells me he was a hateful man who wanted to dominate the beliefs of everyone.

I'm not sure why you think the things you are saying are new news to me. They are not. I have studied Calvin's life & reformation history too. I have never denied or defended Calvin's actions, He believed the church and state should work together to carry out God's justice. He was wrong. That's not the point. The point is saying true things about him, recognizing that he got some things right (Loving his wife even to her death, recognizing roman catholic errors), some things wrong (killing heretics), and some things that we can keep arguing about forever (Election).

Besides just look at all the stuff told by Calvinist about freewillers.

That would be interesting, What exactly are you referring to?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I'm not trying to start an argument. I'm trying to give you the truth. Why would I do that? Because truth is important.
MB

Most people do not come to this site to pick up some rank history of a long dead man. I should provide you with a litany of things I dislike about Calvin, about Luther as well as other men. I could also tell you good and complementary things about each man. SO WHAT. They are dead & buried. Let the dead bury the dead.

What most people venturing into BB want to know is how to be better Christians, and they have tons of questions. They want edifying conversation....all we seem to offer is Wars about Calvinism, Catholicism, Non Calvinism etc.....NOTHING GLORIFYING THE LORD.
And that is shameful.