Historic VS Contemporary Arminianism

[Yeshua1]

I'll respond to you and hope yeshua reads it, as it seems futile to respond to him.

I don't know of any Christian or group of Christians who believe that we are saved by our will.

MANY hold to a form of Christianity that needs to add to the Will of God in christ to redeem us sacramnets of Graces, good works, speaking in tongues, and also do see it as being a co mixture of god doing what he could to save us, and allowing us to do our part to redeem us!

 

[Thomas Helwys]

MANY hold to a form of Christianity that needs to add to the Will of God in christ to redeem us sacramnets of Graces, good works, speaking in tongues, and also do see it as being a co mixture of god doing what he could to save us, and allowing us to do our part to redeem us!

Just a note: I edited my post that you quoted, as I thought what I said was unfair to you.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I'll respond to you and hope yeshua reads it.

I don't know of any Christian or group of Christians who believe that we are saved by our will.

Let me understand (Regarding Election) -- is it not ultimately determined by individual choice? Further, isnt the Arminian position that divine sovereignty must somehow be accommodated to human capability? If Im wrong, then correct me. We DoG believers see that your brand of Election & Salvation are not totally divine decrees. I think thats what "Y"is saying.

 

[Don]

OK -- so tell me Don, does every sinner retain the ability to choose for or against God, either by cooperating with God's Spirit unto salvation or resisting God's grace unto damnation?

And is all your hope in the grace and mercy of God to preserve you unto His heavenly kingdom?

Yes, I have no hope but in Him.

...........................

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

[/I]
...........................

OK, so even though human nature has been damaged by the fall.....its not totally disabled, right?

Also, Christs work on the cross makes salvation possible for everyone, but not actual for anyone in particular, right?

And finally, God's choice to save certain individuals was based on foreseen faith, on the ability to know in advance that they would freely believe the gospel?

If correct, can you back that up with scripture?

 

[Alive in Christ]

EWF...

I am leaving for our mid week evening service, but I will respond to your post to me when I return.

God bless.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

EWF...

I am leaving for our mid week evening service, but I will respond to your post to me when I return.

God bless.

Good Night!

 

[Alive in Christ]

EWF...

You posted to me....

You just described the classic 'synergism'.

Well, then you will have to consider God a synergist, as what I posted in my post is the gosple of Jesus Christ (jusification by faith alone)

Fatal to any sound doctrine of salvation because it increases the place of the human being (Totally God's created creature) and thus diminishes the glory of God in salvation)

Now thats just a bunch of nonsensical calvinistic gobbldegoop. Gods glory is in saving repentant sinners by faith, and faith alone. Its just that simple.

Very much like Roman Catholicism, which insists that the will of man is the decisive factor for salvation.

What I am advocating is light years away from the cultic false church of Rome. The catholic church wouldnt know justification by faith alone if it hit them in the nose.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

EWF...


Well, then you will have to consider God a synergist, as what I posted in my post is the gospel of Jesus Christ (jusification by faith alone)

Of course a Synergist would say that, after all, what is the harm in adding just a little bit of human effort to the work of God

I suppose that you cant recognize how dangerous this subtlety is, right? We wont have any more conversations about this as you really cant see your error can you?

Now thats just a bunch of nonsensical calvinistic gobbldegoop. Gods glory is in saving repentant sinners by faith, and faith alone. Its just that simple.

But you have added much more to this than faith here haven't you? You have in fact added little contributions along the way, correct! I would imagine by your correspondence with me that you don't even see them or you consider them too small to make much difference. None the less, that very little contribution alters the entire dynamic & that is your very subtle error.

If man contributes any essential part towards his salvation, he effectively becomes his own savior.

What I am advocating is light years away from the cultic false church of Rome.

Not really, not in the bigger picture your not. Brother, I tell you this in all sincerity---The leaven of synergism always eventually works its way through the entire loaf of soteriology.

Now you can have the last word, I have said my beliefs.

 

[thomas15]

Good .....and I get that same kindness from a friend who is a Old School Baptist who holds to Sovereign Grace theology. As he stated to me recently when there was come food fights in here..... We are Saved Christians in here (meaning BB) we ought not be pulling each other apart & we should be the happiest people on the planet. We have to love & treasure those people no matter what camp they are in theologically.:thumbsup:

Yes I agree with you. We (this includes thomas15) are all guilty of this one thing, we don't actually communicate with each other, we shout out our beliefs as fact, all claiming to be on the right side of Scripture. Well, it is impossible for all of us to have Scripture on our side because our views are not all compatable. I really don't know what the solution to the problem is.

One thing I do know for fact is that there are some non-calvinist believers out there who have a burden for the lost and there are some non-calvinistic churches where the pastor preaches the gospel of the cross.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Do many here know that classical Arminianism actually would hold to us being sinners spiritual dead in ourselves, that unless God chose to grant to any of us his grace and enabling us to chose, none of us would be even able to get saved?

I don't think many do. The term "Pelagianism" is used in conjunction with Arminianism so much that there is confusion I think. The term "Pelagianism" (as it has been used) does not consider a special act of grace necessary, but Arminianism does. McMahon's M.O. for instance, seems to be to take the terms "Pelagian" "Semi-Pelagian" and "Arminian" and "heretic" for that matter....and just sort of swirl them around in the same glass and create an indistinguishable muddled cocktail. I think it breeds confusion.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yes I agree with you. We (this includes thomas15) are all guilty of this one thing, we don't actually communicate with each other, we shout out our beliefs as fact, all claiming to be on the right side of Scripture. Well, it is impossible for all of us to have Scripture on our side because our views are not all compatable. I really don't know what the solution to the problem is.

One thing I do know for fact is that there are some non-calvinist believers out there who have a burden for the lost and there are some non-calvinistic churches where the pastor preaches the gospel of the cross.

Tom, we are not going to solve our differences here today .... probably not in the future either. After some discussion yesterday & observing the RCC Pope thing that has almost everyone captivated (rolls eyes) .... Dylan's song, rolled thru my head "You Gotta Serve Somebody" ... Now it may be the devil & it may be the Lord, but your goin to have to serve somebody.

I think thats our charge in this world!

Blessings

 

[thomas15]

I don't think many do. The term "Pelagianism" is used in conjunction with Arminianism so much that there is confusion I think. The term "Pelagianism" (as it has been used) does not consider a special act of grace necessary, but Arminianism does. McMahon's M.O. for instance, seems to be to take the terms "Pelagian" "Semi-Pelagian" and "Arminian" and "heretic" for that matter....and just sort of swirl them around in the same glass and create an indistinguishable muddled cocktail. I think it breeds confusion.

Many times I struggle to find a place where I agree with you theologically. This thread is an exception. Not so much your theology but your assessment of the thinking and methods of others on this board. I refer to the sledgehammer approach popular with some trying to make their case for reformed theology.

I received an email today from a well known reformed bookstore advertising a huge moving sale up to 40% off, free shipping on orders over $35.00 All of their books on dispensationalism (for example) are written by non-dispensationalists. They sell one book critical of Calvinism and the owner of the bookstore actually has a disclaimer and urges anyone interested in the book to purchase another with it that offers a pro-calvinistic view. You know, balance error with truth. I use this as an illustration of how many reformed think. They are correct in their minds and everyone else reeks of sulfur.

 

[thomas15]

Tom, we are not going to solve our differences here today .... probably not in the future either. After some discussion yesterday & observing the RCC Pope thing that has almost everyone captivated (rolls eyes) .... Dylan's song, rolled thru my head "You Gotta Serve Somebody" ... Now it may be the devil & it may be the Lord, but your goin to have to serve somebody.

I think thats our charge in this world!

Blessings

I personally think we are better friends than we might think.

 

[Iconoclast]

Regarding this that was posted...




What complete, comical, disasterous nonsense. May Almighty God grant true enlightement to these dear ones.

Yes AIC,

For men to think they can contribute to their salvation is nonsense.I do not think it is comical, but rather lamentable.:thumbsup:

 

[Alive in Christ]

Yes AIC,

For men to think they can contribute to their salvation is nonsense.I do not think it is comical, but rather lamentable.:thumbsup:

Hello Iconoclast.


Have a great day.

 

[Iconoclast]

Hello Iconoclast.


Have a great day.

Thanks AIC.....Lord willing I will...going to visit the sick.....:thumbsup:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Thanks AIC.....Lord willing I will...going to visit the sick.....:thumbsup:

Oh...your finally meeting Winnan?:laugh: just kidding

 

[Alive in Christ]

EWF...

you posted...

Not really, not in the bigger picture your not. Brother, I tell you this in all sincerity---The leaven of synergism always eventually works its way through the entire loaf of soteriology.

Now you can have the last word, I have said my beliefs.

Brother, the heartbeat of the gosple of Jesus christ is, and always will be, justification by faith alone.

As opposed to to the "God churning out robots" gosple of calvinism.

 

[thomas15]

...Not really, not in the bigger picture your not. Brother, I tell you this in all sincerity---The leaven of synergism always eventually works its way through the entire loaf of soteriology.

Does it always? Is this EWFs rule?