History of Calvin

[Rippon]

From :A Pilgrim's Life

Then there was also that small army of pastors that went out from Geneva to invade the world,and particularly France. They were educated at the Academy...In the period from 1555 ro 1562 --in addition to one pastor who was sent to London,one to Antwerp,one to Turin and two to Brazil --ten pastors were sent to Piedmont,and fifty-six to France. Calvin was unable to keep up with the high demand for pastors.

Thus Calvin sent warriors out into the world with Christ as their banner and the Word as their coat of arms. They were not clones of Calvin,but they did become the type of pastor for who the pulpit was a battleship from which the allied Father,Son and Holy Spirit began a process of liberation,and from which shots were fired on everything that was,or appeared to be hostile.They would be pastors who were not afraid to hold up the truth to both friend and foe,just as the prophets,and Calvin himself,had done. (pages 241,242)

 

[Bro. James]

You are going to be slapped down every time you make an analogy between the Reformers and the LDS Church. Quit while you're behind.

Sorry, I admit to being human, we all make a sic once in a while. Is there a difference between a sic and a tpyo? Did you have difficulty transposing the eslewhere to elsewhere? I will certainly try to do a better job of editing. Will 99% be acceptable on occasion?

Dumb observations: Joseph Smith claims to have been given authority from heaven to restore the priesthood of God which had been lost in apostasy. There are millions of his followers who claim to be Christians as they follow: Joseph Smith and his progeny, The Bible and the Book of Mormon, The Pearl of Great Price, and, and, etc, etc. This cult has been reformed. The group in Missouri has been declared the legal heirs to Joseph Smith, even though the larger group which split with B. Young and wound up in Utah, Idaho and Nevada has larger numbers and more money. Who has the most money affects the religions of the world as well. LDS missionaries are worldwide.

Joseph Smith is either a false prophet or a true prophet. If true, we should all be Mormons--they have the restored gospel.

Beware those with new revelations and reformed doctrines and wolves dressed like sheep. The Book of Revelation is the last chapter. See Book of Jude, especially vs. 3

Peace,

Bro. James

 

[Rippon]

Dumb observations: Joseph Smith claims to have been given authority from heaven to restore the priesthood of God which had been lost in apostasy. There are millions of his followers who claim to be Christians as they follow: Joseph Smith and his progeny, The Bible and the Book of Mormon, The Pearl of Great Price, and, and, etc, etc. This cult has been reformed. The group in Missouri has been declared the legal heirs to Joseph Smith, even though the larger group which split with B. Young and wound up in Utah, Idaho and Nevada has larger numbers and more money. Who has the most money affects the religions of the world as well. LDS missionaries are worldwide.

Joseph Smith is either a false prophet or a true prophet. If true, we should all be Mormons--they have the restored gospel.

BJ,I'll have to lay the smackdown on you again. You are sounding way out in left field with your wacky correlation between the Reformers and the LDS Church. Return to reality. You are not making any sense.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

BJ,I'll have to lay the smackdown on you again. You are sounding way out in left field with your wacky correlation between the Reformers and the LDS Church. Return to reality. You are not making any sense.

Yes the analogy is quite ridiculous. You want to tell me how Luther, Edwards, Whitefield & Spurgeon etc were wolves in sheep's clothing?

 

[Rippon]

From : A Pilgrim's Life

Sorrow

The following is a part of a letter Calvin wrote to the Lord of Richebourg regarding the death of Claude Feray and Mr.Feray's student,Louis.

"When I received the message about the death of master Claude and of your son Louis,I was so shocked and so despondent that for several days I could only cry. And although I tried to find strength in the presence of God and wanted to comfort myself with the refuge he grants us in time of need,I still felt as if I was not at all myself. Really,I was no longer able to do the normal things,as if I myself were half dead." (p.253)

"You will say that all of this is too heavy to drive away or supress the grief of a father so as to suffer no more pain at the death of your son. But I am not asking you to suffer no more pain. For this is not the view of life that we are taught in the school of Christ,that we lay aside the God-given human emotions and that we turn from people into stones." (p.254)

 

[Bro. James]

Yes the analogy is quite ridiculous. You want to tell me how Luther, Edwards, Whitefield & Spurgeon etc were wolves in sheep's clothing?

The point is: all those who would reform and restore must be closely scrutinized."Not every spirit is of God; try every spirit to see what sort it is..."

Jesus plainly stated that He would build His Church and the gates of hell would not prevail against Her. He also said that He would provide another Comforter to abide and lead in all Truth indwelling The Pillar and Ground of The Truth(His Church).

To say that the elect, the Bride of Christ, have somehow apostasized, needing reformation/restoration, is to imply that Jesus has not kept His promises.

That the world of Christendom is mostly apostate is obvious. How does one reform the apostate?

See Mt. 7:15-23, especially vss. 21-23

The standard has not changed. God's promises have not slackened. We will all make the Bema Seat or the white throne of judgement. Will it be "Well done" or "Depart from Me, I have never known you"?

I am not in the business of judging anyone great or small. All of our "greats" will be judged by the same criteria--according to what they did with their God given talents.

I still have a problem with anyone who advocates the baptizing of infants.

Jon Chauvin was a pedobaptist.

Jesus is the only One worthy of lifting up and praise.

Peace,

Bro. James

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You completely miss the point, perhaps because you yourself have been thru these apostate churches you guard everything through your own lens. There were people oppressed at one time that needed leaders to bring them out of the dark ages of the RCC. Men like Luther, Calvin, Huss, Wyclif, etc who dared challenge the Church of Rome & the Emperor who supported it. If you dont see that these men put it all on the line then your obviously quite tone deaf.

 

[glfredrick]

You completely miss the point, perhaps because you yourself have been thru these apostate churches you guard everything through your own lens. There were people oppressed at one time that needed leaders to bring them out of the dark ages of the RCC. Men like Luther, Calvin, Huss, Wyclif, etc who dared challenge the Church of Rome & the Emperor who supported it. If you dont see that these men put it all on the line then your obviously quite tone deaf.

What brother James fails to realize is that he is the beneficiary of the Reformation while he, at the same time, disavows it. This notion that the splinter separatist groups from the RCC were the true church and that all true church action stems from their (often heretical!) actions and beliefs is nothing more than revisionist history. Worse, is that claiming them as the true church is in fact the same claim of the RCC, which says that IT is the true church handed down from the Apostles. One or the other making the claim does not change the claim -- it remains the same. On the other hand, the true Church is led by THE King, Christ Jesus, and it is a universal church of all people who follow Him, of which some were Reformers, some Catholics, some the separatist splinter groups, etc.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

What brother James fails to realize is that he is the beneficiary of the Reformation while he, at the same time, disavows it. This notion that the splinter separatist groups from the RCC were the true church and that all true church action stems from their (often heretical!) actions and beliefs is nothing more than revisionist history. Worse, is that claiming them as the true church is in fact the same claim of the RCC, which says that IT is the true church handed down from the Apostles. One or the other making the claim does not change the claim -- it remains the same. On the other hand, the true Church is led by THE King, Christ Jesus, and it is a universal church of all people who follow Him, of which some were Reformers, some Catholics, some the separatist splinter groups, etc.

Simply put.....

1 John 5:11-12 (New International Version)

11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Thank You HS

 

[Bro. James]

You completely miss the point, perhaps because you yourself have been thru these apostate churches you guard everything through your own lens. There were people oppressed at one time that needed leaders to bring them out of the dark ages of the RCC. Men like Luther, Calvin, Huss, Wyclif, etc who dared challenge the Church of Rome & the Emperor who supported it. If you dont see that these men put it all on the line then your obviously quite tone deaf.

There is still a sizeable group of believers who are contending for the faith once for all delivered to the saints. This is the same type of remnant which has been in every generation. They did not originate in Rome, Wittenburg, Geneva, Canterbury or Nauvoo. They survive even through today--as promised by the Lord: "I will never leave you nor forsake you." He is faithful, even when we are not.

Why are you ignoring the infant baptism issue?

Peace,

Bro. James

 

[Bro. James]

What brother James fails to realize is that he is the beneficiary of the Reformation while he, at the same time, disavows it. This notion that the splinter separatist groups from the RCC were the true church and that all true church action stems from their (often heretical!) actions and beliefs is nothing more than revisionist history. Worse, is that claiming them as the true church is in fact the same claim of the RCC, which says that IT is the true church handed down from the Apostles. One or the other making the claim does not change the claim -- it remains the same. On the other hand, the true Church is led by THE King, Christ Jesus, and it is a universal church of all people who follow Him, of which some were Reformers, some Catholics, some the separatist splinter groups, etc.

Sounds a bit ecumenical; but it fits the signs of the times in which we are immersed.

This is not about splinter groups and other heretical movements. This is about God preserving a remnant, unpolluted, undefiled, without spot or blemish or any such thing. AKA: Christ's Bride. Sometimes this has been a few: God preserved eight from the Great Flood of Noah. It was not that they were worthy--Noah found Grace in the eyes of The Lord.

During the Dark Ages, multitudes were killed(burned, hanged, beheaded, dashed, drowned, impaled, tortured to death)-- refusing to baptize their infants. This is the work of Satan through the great whore, drunk with the blood of the saints. She has children.

Are we saying everything is OK now? Take a serious look at Vatican II.

How soon forgotten!!

When/where does this universal assembly assemble?

The children of Rome are going back to Rome--this is being verified on this thread.

Peace,

Bro. James

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

There is still a sizeable group of believers who were contending for the faith once for all delivered to the saints. This is the same remnant which has been in every generation. They did not originate in Rome, Wittenburg, Geneva, Canterbury or Nauvoo. They survive even through today--as promised by the Lord: I will never leave you nor forsake. He is faithful, even when we are not.

Why are you ignoring the infant baptism issue?

Peace,

Bro. James

Are you saved by baptism?

 

[glfredrick]

Sounds a bit ecumenical; but it fits the signs of the times in which we are immersed.

This is not about splinter groups and other heretical movements. This is about God preserving a remnant, unpolluted, undefiled, without spot or blemish or any such thing. AKA: Christ's Bride. Sometimes this has been a few: God preserved eight from the Great Flood of Noah. It was not that they were worthy--Noah found Grace in the eyes of The Lord.

During the Dark Ages, multitudes were killed(burned, hanged, beheaded, dashed, drowned, impaled, tortured to death)-- refusing to baptize their infants. How soon forgotten!!

When/where does this universal assembly assemble?

The children of Rome are going back to Rome--this is being verified on this thread.

Peace,

Bro. James

While I love the sentiment, and believe it to be true based on a God who cannot lie, I have also found that we CANNOT discover what that remnant was/is, so we are forced to use other means to know who is or is not the true church of the Lord Jesus Christ.

How many of the splinter groups that you cling to actually baptized believers by immersion? How many held the entire Word of God as valid? Do you have an accurate history of these groups or are you fantasizing about what we know is there but cannot prove? Finally, is ANYONE who was or is not a part of the RCC good?

I have several tests that I consider when tring to decide as best I can about the true nature of God's church. One test is whether or not the person or entity is for radical separation or for unity, as in the high priestly prayer of Christ. Another test is whether one holds to the entire Scriptures or do they pick and choose which Scriptures to hold, balanced against some form of tradition (and don't think that there is no tradition within Baptist circles -- it is RAMPANT). A third test is whether or not the interpretation of the Scriptures and Gospel brings LIFE or DEATH.

I've found that God is involved with a corporate response -- community -- through unity of His own family (why we are called brothers and sisters, and sons of God), he is about His true Word, all of it, and He is about bringing life to a dead people. If those tests fail, I have to assume that the person or entity is a nicely religious expression, but probably not born again from above and indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Bro. James]

You believe in Truth based on a(?) God who cannot lie; yet you do not believe that He can leave a record of this truth? How big is your God? Que lastima!! The promise is given in Mt. The pattern is given in The Book of Acts(also some history). She is described(historical) in many places in the Book of Revelation. That should be and is enough verification. There is also a lot of corroboration in so-called secular history,usually written by the victorious. There is a good account given in the Catholic Encyclopedia, History of the Evangelical Churches of the Valleys of Piedmont, and History if the Inquisition, certain activities for which modern popes have apologized(sort of)--extermination of anabaptists. The gates of hell did not prevail.
Secular history always has a secular bias--the world is lost, following the god of this world, the prince of the power of the air.

It matters not how many there are or were, Saddleback would not be in contention, regardless of size. The majority of the world is not Christian, however ambiguous the term has become. We are in the midst of an evangelical-ecumenical revival--probably getting ready for The Antichrist. "If it were possible, the elect would be deceived." We live in a world given to strong delusion, especially in spiritual matters.

Accurate history? Yes, Sir, based on The True and Living God who cannot lie, will not lie, does not lie. It is called the Word of God.

Radical separation or unity? Jesus was praying for unity among The Faith,once for all delivered to the saints. This is not about all the ecumenical/evangelical,"repeat after me" salvation rubbish which has been rampant for the past 50 years. Rome is calling back her daughters--under her terms of course. See Vatican II proceedings."Come out from among them, saith The Lord; touch not the unclean thing" is not directed at the lost.

Corporate response, community, unity...

Not sure what this means. Our first president was sworn in with a Masonic Bible and wearing Masonic regalia. On the other hand, there were 37 members of one church on the Mayflower-1620-seems they had Geneva Bibles. It is interesting to follow the history of the Lord's churches in the U.S. Some preachers were imprisoned and fined for: preaching the gospel.

Now what? I guess most of us believe exactly what we want--regardless of the facts.

Praise the Lord for preserving a remnant.

Do you really think this is fantasy?

Beware: 6 6 6

Peace,

Bro. James

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You believe in Truth based on a(?) God who cannot lie; yet you do not believe that He can leave a record of this truth? How big is your God? Que lastima!! The promise is given in Mt. The pattern is given in The Book of Acts(also some history). She is described(historical) in many places in the Book of Revelation. That should be and is enough verification. There is also a lot of corroboration in so-called secular history,usually written by the victorious. There is a good account given in the Catholic Encyclopedia, History of the Evangelical Churches of the Valleys of Piedmont, and History if the Inquisition, certain activities for which modern popes have apologized(sort of)--extermination of anabaptists. The gates of hell did not prevail.
Secular history always has a secular bias--the world is lost, following the god of this world, the prince of the power of the air.

It matters not how many there are or were, Saddleback would not be in contention, regardless of size. The majority of the world is not Christian, however ambiguous the term has become. We are in the midst of an evangelical-ecumenical revival--probably getting ready for The Antichrist. "If it were possible, the elect would be deceived." We live in a world given to strong delusion, especially in spiritual matters.

Accurate history? Yes, Sir, based on The True and Living God who cannot lie, will not lie, does not lie. It is called the Word of God.

Radical separation or unity? Jesus was praying for unity among The Faith,once for all delivered to the saints. This is not about all the ecumenical/evangelical,"repeat after me" salvation rubbish which has been rampant for the past 50 years. Rome is calling back her daughters--under her terms of course. See Vatican II proceedings."Come out from among them, saith The Lord; touch not the unclean thing" is not directed at the lost.

Corporate response, community, unity...

Not sure what this means. Our first president was sworn in with a Masonic Bible and wearing Masonic regalia. On the other hand, there were 37 members of one church on the Mayflower-1620-seems they had Geneva Bibles. It is interesting to follow the history of the Lord's churches in the U.S. Some preachers were imprisoned and fined for: preaching the gospel.

Now what? I guess most of us believe exactly what we want--regardless of the facts.

Praise the Lord for preserving a remnant.

Do you really think this is fantasy?

Beware: 6 6 6

Peace,

Bro. James

Huh???? Ohhhhhhh this has gotten silly now! Do you also take flights to the moon on gossamer wings? :laugh:

Seriously you've gone way off topic by trying to derail this OP & right from the beginning. Why dont you set up your own post & drive home your point that way.

 

[billwald]

Except that Baptists so want to baptize their children that you invented "infant dedication." That's cheap because it doesn't cost you anything. How about dedicating your paycheck to God?

 

[Bro. James]

The train is not derailed--just going down a sidetrack. I made some aspersions regarding Calvin being a pedobaptist and that we should not be lifting him up. Then the bovine... hit the fan.

We chased a lot of conies, ruffled some feathers and had some brusque dialogue from time to time. Seed was sown, I learned a lot. Thank-you. See you at the Bema Seat.

Peace,

Bro. James

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The train is not derailed--just going down a sidetrack. I made some aspersions regarding Calvin being a pedobaptist and that we should not be lifting him up. Then the bovine... hit the fan.

We chased a lot of conies, ruffled some feathers and had some brusque dialogue from time to time. Seed was sown, I learned a lot. Thank-you. See you at the Bema Seat.

Peace,

Bro. James

Sehr Gut, Mas Gut, Wis Bald, Tschuss, Ciao:thumbs:

 

[Rippon]

From :A Pilgrim's Life

Servetus

[J]ust two hours before servetus was burned,Calvin maintained he had not battled him for personal reasons."I do not hate you,I do not despise you and I did not want to be in hard pursuit of you." (33)

The reason Servetus had for all intents and purposes been burned by Rome was that he thought the doctrine of the Trinity was a buch of nonsense. He called God a three-headed monster,and also had other names to make his opinion clear. what he did and said was against the law. Emperor Charles V had established a law that everyone in his empire who denied the doctrine of the Trinity was to be punished with death. A denial of the Trinity was a frontal attack on the Christian faith,and thus on the established power of the empire as well. This meant that Servetus could jsut as well have been burned in Cologne,Strasbourg or antwerp. Unfortunately for Calvin,and for all Reformed believers in fact,it happened that Servetus was executed in Geneva. (204)


At the time,in any case,no one thought anything of it. This is clear from the letters of advice Geneva received from neighboring cities upon request. Servetus was arrested and interrogated. at a certain point in the proceedings he was offerred the chance to be returned to France,but on his knees he pleaded that he might be tried in Geneva. His request was honored.
The council could come to no other decision but to have Servetus burned at the stake: if this step was not taken Geneva itself ran the risk of being seen as a city that threatened the state. Calvin went to seek out Servetus and convince him to recant his statements,but he did not succeed. He also did not succeed in securing a less painful death sentence for Servetus,asking that he be hanged instead. [I thought Calvin was in favor of beheading --Rip] Once again,it is more than clear that Calvin by no means had the final say in Geneva. Servetus was burned,but the smell of smoke has clung to Calvin's clothes for centuries. (205)

It is remarkable that Servetus was condemned by a government that was actually not at all favorably disposed toward Calvin,but they saw no other option but to carry this punishment out. Any city that became known as tolerant of those who would deny the Trinity would be abandoned by friend and foe alike. (206)

 

[Rippon]

Servetus

[J]ust two hours before Servetus was burned,Calvin maintained he had not battled him for personal reasons."I do not hate you,I do not despise you and I did not want to be in hard pursuit of you." (33)

The reason Servetus had for all intents and purposes been burned by Rome was that he thought the doctrine of the Trinity was a buch of nonsense. He called God a three-headed monster,and also had other names to make his opinion clear. what he did and said was against the law. Emperor Charles V had established a law that everyone in his empire who denied the doctrine of the Trinity was to be punished with death. A denial of the Trinity was a frontal attack on the Christian faith,and thus on the established power of the empire as well. This meant that Servetus could jsut as well have been burned in Cologne,Strasbourg or Antwerp. Unfortunately for Calvin,and for all Reformed believers in fact,it happened that Servetus was executed in Geneva. (204)


At the time,in any case,no one thought anything of it. This is clear from the letters of advice Geneva received from neighboring cities upon request. Servetus was arrested and interrogated. at a certain point in the proceedings he was offered the chance to be returned to France,but on his knees he pleaded that he might be tried in Geneva. His request was honored.
The council could come to no other decision but to have Servetus burned at the stake: if this step was not taken Geneva itself ran the risk of being seen as a city that threatened the state. Calvin went to seek out Servetus and convince him to recant his statements,but he did not succeed. He also did not succeed in securing a less painful death sentence for Servetus,asking that he be hanged instead. [I thought Calvin was in favor of beheading --Rip] Once again,it is more than clear that Calvin by no means had the final say in Geneva. Servetus was burned,but the smell of smoke has clung to Calvin's clothes for centuries. (205)

It is remarkable that Servetus was condemned by a government that was actually not at all favorably disposed toward Calvin,but they saw no other option but to carry this punishment out. Any city that became known as tolerant of those who would deny the Trinity would be abandoned by friend and foe alike. (206)

I would recommend anyone seriously interested in facts regarding John Calvin's person to take a good gander at this thread --especially my quotes of Herman J. Selderhuis. He has a wonderful book called: John Calvin: A Pilgrim's Life. It's a good counter to a lot of wasted vitriol based on nonsense that a number of BB'ers have engaged in lately.