Hitler's Pope

Then you better start to read about the true history of the Biblical churches outside the Roman Catholics first.
RCC persecuted and killed the true believers condemning them as Heretics.
Bible says "As for Heretic, after the first and the second admonition, reject" Titus 4:10, RCC tortured and killed the people condemning them as Heretics because they didn't follow the Bible. This is the true history.
Holocaust was not more than the extension of it by RCC followers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade

http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1676.cfm

See all the torturing tools at the European museums.

http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/katalikai/

Also, you better read the History:


http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/thailand/PC-B-000.htm

http://www.baptistpillar.com/bd0547.htm

I don't trust this type of man as my Lord Jesus condemned such:

Revelation 2:
9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan

There are many Jews who work against Jews. I already mentioned about Simon Perez, the former Israel Foreign Minister who is very much criticized as working for Vatican.

Many Jewish Catholics were the descendants of the bastards by the Jewish women raped by Catholic Crusades.

It depends on the view. In my view such person is speaking the truth. OK. then you should look at the other side too.

Nope!
Your post may be correct, but mine was correct as well at different time.

http://www.thebibletruth.org/RomanCat.htm

This letter may be the ealier one, and we don't know how they compromized each other.

But we must know that RCC is so powerful on this world to do anything to re-write the history, but the True God knows and remembers everything and He wants us to know the Truth of the history.

If you read the letters, the contents are so different, and totally another issues, and therefore we can conclude they were written at different times. Catholic plays the game of the press on the internet.

However, this portion is apparently controversial and Israelites know more than the average people.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/124737

Even today, the first day of the Holocaust Memorial, Yad Vashem, RCC threatened that the ambassador wouldnot attend there, but now they changed and attend there. Why? Israel knows the truth of the history.

As I said, it is totally different contents.
There were many war criminals among the Vatican members, but none of them were indicted, which is a mystery but many suspect that some Catholics inside USA helped to delete the charges against them.

How come, the concordat stipuated that RCC is the only recognized religion in the Third Reich?

A typical way of Excuses by the hypocrites.

Read and see these photos.

http://liberalslikechrist.org/Catholic/NaziLeadership.html

I don't believe at all that Hitler was a Christian.

I do believe that Hitler was a Roman Catholic, because Roman Catholics are mostly not Christians! RCC teaches all the paganism.

That is the typical way of excuses by the RCC. RCC members mostly maintaine various paganism. My colleague at the company buys Lottery, smoke, sometimes drugs for fun, and gambling too, but excuses in various ways. Most of the RCC members overlook the Idolatry. Many RC excuse that Hitler was worshipping Teutonic god, but RCC is often full of paganism.

You beter start to read the true history of the Biblical church as I mentioned above.

How can we trust the Idol worshippers like this?

http://www.maryqueenofheaven.net/index.htm

http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/crown.htm

Oh, miserable Idol worshippers, and the Pope, the head of Chemarim ( Zephaniah 1:4)

 

As I said above, the letters may be dated different times. I heard there were many efforts by the RCC, to evade the indictment of the war criminals among the RCC members. There might have been a certain compromise, to cover up the truth.

 

I already mentioned this point too. Though there was a difference in the degree of the involvement, the most of the Protestants were not free from the responsibility for the connections with Nazis or Hitler. But the main body was RCC.
The concordat specified the RCC as the only recognized religion in Third Reich, realizing the dream of Roman Catholic.

 

Arutzsheva reported this as today is the first day of Yad Vashem ( Holocaust Memorial)

Vatican Won’t Participate in Yad Vashem Ceremony
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(IsraelNN.com) The Vatican is refusing to participate in this year's annual Yad Vashem Holocaust memorial service. The Holy See is objecting to a photograph of then-Pope Pope Pius XII in the museum, captioned with an observation about his conduct during Hitler’s genocide of the Jews.

The Vatican asked the museum in early 2006 to change the caption on the photo, which was added to the exhibit in 2005. The museum notes that it “told to the Vatican’s representative in Israel that it was willing to continue examining the issue, and noted that if granted access it would gladly study the Vatican’s archives from the era…. to possibly learn new and different information than what is known today.”



Vatican Rep Changes Mind, Will Attend Yad Vashem Event
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(IsraelNN.com) Vatican Ambassador to Israel, Archbishop Antonin Franco has informed the government that he will attend Sunday evening’s opening ceremony marking the beginning of Holocaust Memorial Day.

Franco had announced last week that he would boycott the ceremony in response to a caption of a photo in the Yad Vashem memorial museum showing Pope Pius XII during the period of the Holocaust. The caption charges that the late Catholic leader ignored the plight of the Jews during the period of the Nazi genocide.

Last week’s decision by the Catholic church’s representative provoked a storm of protest from Jewish communities around the world. New York-based Anti-Defamation League Director Abe Foxman called the decision unnecessarily insulting and unbecoming.” Foxman called on the Vatican to release its archives to the public so historians can examine the documents and determine precisely what Pope Pius XII did or did not do during the period of the Nazi genocide of the Jews.

 

I already supplied the source. You may be saying that Roman Catholic refutation is trustworthy because they are rich and powerful , right?
Is that authenticated by God who knows everything happened on this earth?

Now I realized you are not the Baptist but the lover of Idol worshippers!

Your love of Idolatry is a Romance and my love iof true history is an Adultry, is that what you are saying?

Why do you insist that it is a Hoax? Please disprove it!

You may be one of the lovers of the Idol worshipping Pagan religion Catholic disguised as Baptists.

Why do you remain in the Baptists? Do you believe the History of Baptists?

Yes, I am Anti-Idolatry, Anti-Inquisition, Anti-Papacy, Anti-goddess worship.

Do you love Idolatry, Inquisitors, Papacy, goddess worship? Do you Roman Catholic?

Do you believe theory of Purgatory?

Do you know that Pope is nothing but the Head of the Idol worshipping pagan priests?

Jesus HATES the doctrine of Nicolaitanes, ( Rev 2:6, 15), Do you know who are the Nicolaitanes?


RCC is doing a lot of the work to heal the wounds of the head and I expect they will eventually succeed in doing so. But God remembers everything.


From now on I will treat you as a Lover of Roman Catholic, the Idolatry Pagan Religion.

 

good points, rsr

Eli's posts seem more about his hatred of the RCC than anything else.

 

Eliyahu is a nothing more than a romaphobic and a very ill informed one at that. He never fact checks his sources, as I’ve personally called him on numerous quotes that were nothing more than cut and paste jobs that he discovered from some fundies anti-catholic site, who in returned plagiarized another site….trying to have a civil discussion with such people is like clapping with one hand…

-

 

The reputation of Pope Pius XII has suffered from an endless series of accusations of collaboration with the Nazi regime before and during World War II. In books such as John Cornwell's Hitler's Pope and others, the Pope and the Roman Catholic church face accusations of moral cowardice in the face of the most twisted regime in modern human history. However, new documentation shows that the Nazis themselves considered Pius and his Church their enemy -- because Pius assisted in the flight of Jews from the Nazi genocidists: Source Link

Pius XII, the wartime pontiff often condemned as "Hitler's Pope", was actually considered an enemy by the Third Reich, according to newly discovered documents.

Several letters and memos unearthed at a depot used by the Stasi, the East-German secret police, show that Nazi spies within the Vatican were concerned at Pius's efforts to help displaced Poles and Jews.

In one, the head of Berlin's police force tells Joachim von Ribbentropp, the Third Reich's foreign minister, that the Catholic Church was providing assistance to Jews "both in terms of people and financially".

A report from a spy at work in the Vatican states: "Our source was told to his face by Father Robert Leibner [one of Pius's secretaries] that the greatest hope of the Church is that the Nazi system would be obliterated by the war."​

After the war, the Pope himself acknowledged that he did not speak out consistently against the Nazis, but claimed he held back in order to save more people from their clutches. In light of this new evidence, he may have done his best under the worst of circumstances. Certainly the Nazis understood him as a threat to their plans to wipe Jews off the face of the Earth, and recorded their concerns.

How did Pius get such a bad rap? Part of it comes from the circumstance of having been Pope during the war. The Vatican, after all, sits within Rome -- and the Italians who aligned themselves with Hitler had them surrounded. The Swiss survived under similar circumstances by essentially doing the same thing -- remaining quiet while doing what they could under the radar.

Now, though, it looks like there may be more to the story than just circumstance. The discovery of these records within the files of the Stasi -- the East German secret police during the Communist era -- indicates that the smear may have had political motivations. The Telegraph reports that some believe the story got circulated at the direction of Moscow to discredit the Catholics, which they saw as a potential rival in Eastern Europe. If they could paint the Vatican as Nazi sympathizers, then the Poles and other Catholics in the Soviet sphere of influence would discount them as an anti-Communist force.

In the end, of course, the Soviets failed in their strategy. Their smear lived on, unfortunately.

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Hi there,
thanks for contributing a more balanced debate. The idea that the Pope did not speak out because so doing would have endangered more people is often used, but is hardly plausable. I must appologise here for quoting from my thesis, but i really am stressed for time, and hope the quote makes sence.
The Pope himself, in letter and speech, claimed protest would only provoke greater suffering for those already suffering too much. This policy was publicly abandoned and discredited as regards Poland in 1943. As early as November 3, 1941, Archbishop Sapieha of Poland had written to the Pope requesting an explicit condemnation, or at least a message of comfort, for the Catholics of Poland. He repeated this request in February 1942, as did other Catholic leaders “on the spot” in July and September 1942.[FONT=&quot][1][/FONT] The Pope instead sent three letters to the Polish episcopy, denouncing the Nazi atrocities. Cardinal Saphia responded by thanking him, but saying they could not publish them for fear of aggravating the situation.[FONT=&quot][2][/FONT] On February 15, 1943, Bishop Radonski wrote to the Pope:

I wonder just which bishops have asked the Holy Father to remain silent ... According to your Eminence, they did so out of fear of aggravating the persecution. But the facts prove that with the Pope being silent, each day sees the persecution become more cruel. ... When such crimes, which cry out to heaven for vengeance, are committed, the inexplicable silence of the supreme head of the church becomes for those who do not know its reason-and there are thousands of them-a cause for spiritual downfall.[FONT=&quot][3][/FONT]
As a result of this letter, Maglione suggested to Sapieha that he should release some of the earlier letters sent to him by the Pope. Sapieha again responded that it would be better for the Pope to write a new letter, recapitulating the earlier ones, and then release it himself. On June 2, 1943, the Pope therefore spoke directly to the Polish people about their suffering in a speech which was broadcast on Vatican Radio.[FONT=&quot][4][/FONT] On June 11, Cardinal Hlond wrote to Maglione: “The Poles needed this”, while Sapieha wrote to the Pope: “the gratitude of the Polish people will never forget these noble and holy words ... at the same time they will be an effective antidote against the poisonous efforts of the enemy propaganda.”[FONT=&quot][5][/FONT] He concluded that he would try to publicize the speech as much as possible.

In 1981, Cardinal Dezza wrote that in December 1942, the Pope told him of sending the letters to Sapieha, and cited Sapieha’s unwillingness to publish them as supportive of his policy of official silence. Cardinal Dezza (and Marchione) unfortunately only quoted the part of this story where some Polish clergy told the Pope they could not release his letters to them for fear of persecution.[FONT=&quot][6][/FONT] This fact is then pressed into service as justifying Papal silence re the Holocaust, a verdict utterly at odds with the later conclusion of the incident. The Pope’s pastoral letter to the German Bishops was written on April 30, 1943. It was therefore written after the initial concern expressed by some Polish bishops, but before the change in policy which saw his June 2 statement on their behalf. Indeed, he appears to have the initial Polish reaction to his letters in mind (as per Cardinal Dezza’s 1942 recollection) when he wrote to Preysing concerning his policy of leaving decisions re denunciations of atrocities to those on the spot: “This is one of the motives for the limitations which We impose on Ourself in Our declarations. The experience we gained in 1942, when We allowed papal documents to be freely reproduced for the use of Catholics, justifies Our attitude, so far as we can see.”[FONT=&quot][7][/FONT] On June 2, 1943, the same day he broke his silence concerning the suffering of the Polish Catholics, the Pope re-affirmed this policy re Jews in a secret address to the College of Cardinals.[FONT=&quot][8][/FONT] Nor did the positive reaction from the Polish clergy prompt a reassessment of this discredited policy as it still affected the Jews.

Clearly, there was a difference of opinion within the Polish clergy as to the advisability of Vatican comment.[FONT=&quot][9][/FONT] Equally, the Polish hierarchy, in discussion with the Vatican, resolved that a Papal statement from the Vatican was the preferred solution. That is, while the Pope turned down requests from bishops in Germany and France, and his diplomatic representative in Slovakia that the best action to stop the persecution of Jews would be for a Papal protest, when Polish bishops requested the same strategy to protest the persecution of Catholics in Poland, the Pope complied. Their arguments advanced against Papal silence, and the following gratitude of the Polish clergy simply highlight the utter bankruptcy of the Pope’s silence re the Jews. What he would do for Catholics, he would not do for Jews.[FONT=&quot][10][/FONT] Equally, given that by May 1943, Maglione knew that only 100,000 of Poland’s initial 4.5 million were still alive in Poland, keeping silent had clearly not helped them, and with the death camps still running, it is hard to imagine what “worse predicament” any Papal statement might have created for them. Any logic that may have existed in 1940 or even 1942 for silence had by now totally evaporated. That logic had always in any event applied more to the persecuted Polish Catholics, who were hurting, but not facing genocide (meaning that increased persecution was always a Nazi option for expressing disapproval over any Vatican statement), than it did for the Jews. That this argument, overturned by the Pope in 1943 for Catholic Poles, is still advanced by Papal defenders decades after[FONT=&quot][11][/FONT] is simply inexcusable.

As Goldhagen correctly comments:

Let us consider the moral dimension of the defender’s arguments. Since when do we argue that religious men should not speak moral truths? That being silent in the face of mass murder is the best way to help the victims? That mobilizing people of conscience to resist radical evil would have the opposite effect of abetting that evil?[FONT=&quot][12][/FONT]


[FONT=&quot][1][/FONT] Blett, 81-82.

[FONT=&quot][2][/FONT] Marchione, 141.

[FONT=&quot][3][/FONT] Blett, 84. A further consequence of these soon to be discredited bishops’ views was that Vatican Radio suspended all broadcasts regarding Germany. Rychlak, 2000: 157.

[FONT=&quot][4][/FONT] Rychlak, 2000: 192.

[FONT=&quot][5][/FONT] Blett, 85-86.

[FONT=&quot][6][/FONT] See Rychlak, 151, 368, 370, for a similar misuse of the information.

[FONT=&quot][7][/FONT] S. Friedländer, 1966: 139. In this he repeated his comment of 1940 that, while aware of the terrible things taking place in Poland, he kept silent because speaking out “would simply worsen the predicament of these unfortunate people.” Rychlak, 2000: 140, 378. It is unclear if his 1940 words concerned Polish Catholics or Polish Jews.

[FONT=&quot][8][/FONT] S. Friedländer, 1966: 143.

[FONT=&quot][9][/FONT] See Rychlak, 2000: 169.

[FONT=&quot][10][/FONT] Similarly, as noted, while the Pope never passed on the appeals for help sent by the Jews of Poland (or elsewhere), when the Catholic women of Warsaw petitioned him in August 1944, he passed the appeal on the next day to the representatives of both America and Britain with the request that it be brought to the attention of their governments. Their appeal was also published in the L’Osservatore Romano on September 15. He also spoke twice publicly on their behalf of their cause. Rychlak, 2000: 227-228. Blett, 273.

[FONT=&quot][11][/FONT] Rychlak, 2000: 251. Cardinal Montini for example, wrote in 1963 that, for Pius to have adopted “an attitude of protest and condemnation would have been not only futile but harmful.” Blett, xii.

[FONT=&quot][12][/FONT] Goldhagen, 2002: 28.

 

1. My source itself contains the article from Chilean magazine. As you know Chile has suffered the lots of trouble with the dictatorships, including Pinochet. It is not unusual such company could disappear by some reasons. Therefore it is understandable to have difficultyin verifying the article. But the ultimate authority lies in the archive of either White House or State Department which recorded all the correspondences. Until you or anyone else verify that there was no correspondence like that, still the letter is not proven as a Hoax. This portion of the verification may be difficult for a while, but someday it will be revealed.

When I read thru the contents of the letter, it was very certain that such letter was issued. But the problem could be how Pres Trumen compromised with Mr. Pacelli. However, God knows the truth and what the tricky guys did, and how the Idol worshippers priests are disguising to heal their wounds ( Rev 13:3)

2. You don't deserve my comment any more. I can easily remember you as a dual person, disguised as a baptist. You could never answer my question whether you believe the History of Baptists. Your hear may be refuting the Bible verses which condemn the Idolatry.
You trust what the Idol worshippers are saying. You cannnot reason why Mussolini, Hitler, Franco of Spain were all Roman Catholic, and Himler Goebels etc are the devout Catholic.
I don't think it is too difficult to provide the furthermore evidences, but it is not worthy of my time. Because the already-known probems with the Idol worshippers are enough to convince the reasonable believers.
Your heart cannot deceive the true believers any more, because you don't find much problem with Idol worshippers.

 

God hates Idol worshippers, Murderers, such as Roman Catholic!

 

[FONT=&quot]Hi again,
concerning papal aid to Jews, the issue again is of Jewish converts to Catholicism, which the Catholic church did not view as Jews, as opposed to Jews in general. For example, the Pope sent a pastoral letter to the German bishops, on April 30, 1943.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] In it, the Pope noted that the Holy See has acted charitably “within the limits of its responsibilities” towards both “non-Aryan Catholics” and those of “the Jewish faith.” He goes on to mention “the very large sums in American money which We have had to disburse on shipping for emigrants. We gave those sums willingly ...” The Pope failed to mention several salient facts here. As early as November 1938, Pius XI had been working on a fund to aid non-Aryan Catholics to emigrate. After some bureaucratic difficulties, on March 4, 1940, 3,000 Brazilian visas were made available to non-Aryan Catholics to enable them to flee Nazi persecution. Matters dragged on, but on February 6, 1941 Maglione informed Cardinal Innitzer that the Pope had personally given $2,000 towards the program.[FONT=&quot][1][/FONT] This program and money were only for converts to Catholicism. When Rychlak,[FONT=&quot][2][/FONT] quoting Gaspari, states that the Pope paid out $800 to each of 1,000 German Jews wishing to emigrate to [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Brazil[/FONT][FONT=&quot], either they have both adopted a Nazi definition of Jewishness, or they are misled. Furthermore, some of the money so claimed by the Pope was from a donation to the Vatican to aid in its relief work from the United Jewish Appeal in the United States. While the donation explicitly requested that the Pope use the money for all in need, regardless of race, religion or nationality, it is unclear if they were aware that the Pope would spent it in a way which explicitly excluded Jews as such from its benefits, or that he would then imply that it was spent aiding Jews.[FONT=&quot][3][/FONT] Concerning the difference in numbers (3,000 supplied by [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Brazil[/FONT][FONT=&quot], 1,000 used), 2,000 visas, while obtained, “were not granted because of alleged ‘improper conduct,’ in Cardinal Luigi Maglione's words. This was probably a reference to the returning of Jews to Judaism once they reached Brazil.”[FONT=&quot][4][/FONT] That is, due to the possibility of unconverted Jews using it, the entire program was cancelled. For Gaspari to then use the 1,000 visas as evidence of the Pope’s aid to Jews is simply indefensible. The Pope was aiding Catholic converts, and the possibility that Jews would use the program to save their lives caused the entire program to be cancelled. And this was the Pope’s own choice of example of his giving aid to Jews!

Take care, Colin
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][1][/FONT] P. Blett, 142-148. Note that the Nuncios in Chile and Bolivia wrote to Maglione opposing the emigration of non-Aryan Catholics to those lands, couching their opposition in strongly anti-Semitic language. Preliminary Report, question 39.

[FONT=&quot][2][/FONT] R. Rychlak, 2002: 7.

[FONT=&quot][3][/FONT] Preliminary Report, question 4. See also footnote 1614.

[FONT=&quot][4][/FONT] Yad vashem, The Holocaust and the Christian World, viewed 23/4/03, http://www.yad-vashem.org.il/about_yad/what_new/data_pope/encyclopedia.html. (quoting Gutman, Israel, Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, p. 1136).

 

The ultimate evidence which can justify which one is true can be obtained from the Archive of State Dept or White House. Those diplomatic record may have been re-classified as No-more secrets and may be available if we can try to find out. I live in Canada at the moment, which makes it more difficult for me to search for the archive than anyone in U.S. If anyone is really serious about the verasity of it, she or he must check the archive and show the reasonable result of such investigation. None of your reference has made such investigation to refute the article which I posted. If all the posters on this BB have to verify the articles from its sources, none of the posters can afford to post any articles serious enough to discuss. This type of accusation or refutation may be often used by the Inquisitors when they tortured the true believers objections to the Roman Catholicism. Until you can verify it with State Dept and White House about the versaty of the letters, yours and mine remain in the same degree of validity with the minor differences. There have been so many reports in the field of Diplomacy which could hardly be verified immediately but after some while turned out to be true.
God knows the whole truth but until He appears, so many people are continuing to cheat the people. Until His time, what we can do is to confirm with all the records of White House and State Dept, which may be open to the true believers sooner or later.

Read the contents. Could you find anything wrong in the contents?

Oh! Dear! Do you believe that Roman Catholic tortured and killed many True Believers? Really?
Do yiou believe that Roman Catholic tortured the Believers by Inquisition?

You can trust this right? For example,
A crusade against Waldensians in the Dauphiné region of France was declared in 1487, but Papal representatives continued to devastate towns and villages into the mid 16th century as the Waldensians became absorbed into the wider Protestant Reformation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldensians)


Since when the Idol Worshippers have changed their habit of killing people?

Can the dogs change their habits?

You misunderstand my point!. I provided the initial source, you refuted it, and at the moment neither you nor I have verified it with the ultimate source. You are trying to bite a small piece of the issues to find fault of me. This is only a small portion of the whole issue on the Hitler's Pope, and I showed you many sites and references showing the photos of Concrodat etc. You could never refute them. Are you saying that Concordat was a Hoax? Your eyes may be Hoax!

Again, you are villifying me just with one part of the whole issues. What about the other posts? You better check your eyes first because you are finding fault with the matter of prime sources for one article, while you keep silent about the whole issues, which is the tactics of the pagan believers disguised as Baptists.
Remove the beams of your eyes first then you can see thru the dusts in my eyes. Then you can see the photos of my posts here again:

http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm

http://liberalslikechrist.org/Catholic/NaziLeadership.html

How come most of the dictators in that era were Catholic?

Why do the victims of Hitler ( Israel) connect their tragedy with Catholic Pope?

 

ADL: Archbishop’s Boycott “Insulting”
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(IsraelNN.com) The Anti-Defamation League called the announcement by Archbishop Antonio Franco, the Vatican’s ambassador to Israel, that he would not take part in a Holocaust memorial at Yad Vashem “inappropriate and insulting.” Franco said he would avoid the memorial on Monday due to a photo caption in one exhibit, which he says accuses Pope Pius XII of ignoring the plight of the Jews during the Holocaust.

ADL head Abe Foxman called Franco’s response to the caption “unnecessarily insulting and unbecoming.” Foxman, a Holocaust survivor, called on the Vatican to release material documenting the period of the Third Reich and the Holocaust. If the records are made public, he said, historians will be able to determine what Pope Pius did or did not do to help Jews during the Holocaust.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/124702


Vatican Won’t Participate in Yad Vashem Ceremony
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(IsraelNN.com) The Vatican is refusing to participate in this year's annual Yad Vashem Holocaust memorial service. The Holy See is objecting to a photograph of then-Pope Pope Pius XII in the museum, captioned with an observation about his conduct during Hitler’s genocide of the Jews.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/124584

 

This is how Roman Catholic manufacture the martyrs!


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