Hitler's Pope

[LadyEagle]

Moderator Note: There are so many personal attacks towards other BB members sprinkled throughout this thread, it is impossible to edit!!

Further personal attacks will result in this thread being closed without further notice. Thank you for your cooperation in discussing the topic without making personal attacks/innuendoes against each other.

Lady Eagle,
Moderator

 

[LadyEagle]

Years later it became public knowledge that war criminals like Klaus Barbie, Adolf Eichmann, Heinrich Mueller, Franz Stangl and a whole list of other war criminals escaped war torn Europe via the Catholic Church. Most of these men escaped through the work of one man, a Roman Catholic Bishop named Alois Hudal, Rector of the Pontificio Santa Maria dell’ Anima. "During the war Hudal served as Commissioner or the Episcopate for German speaking Catholics in Italy, as well as Father Confessor to Rome’s German community." [2] Hudal harbored anti-Semitic feelings and his pro Nazi stance was well known throughout the Catholic community. During Hitler’s rule, Bishop Hudal often spoke about the unity between the Catholic Church and the Nazi government.

http://hist.academic.claremontmckenna.edu/jpetropoulos/holocaust/aftermathintro.htm

 

[Melanie]

I have just finished reading a biography of Pope Pius xii called ""Crown of Glory"by Hatch and Walsh published in 1957. Eugenio Pacelli as a papal nuncio developed an abiding love of the German people when he was there.....the common folk during the bitter years after the first world war and leading up to the second world war. He was a bitter opponent of the godless tryannical government of fascism and communism.

As a Roman by birth he did all he could to prevent the destruction of his birthplace....he emptied the Vatican bank to assist Roman citizens and the displaced of Europe at wars end.

I cannot and will not believe he was Hitlers socalled pope when the Chief Rabbi Zolli converted at the end of the war in part due to the direct aid given to him by the Pope and to the Jewish people who appealed for assistance in raising the ransom of gold to keep the nazi menace from their doors.

If the pope did not do enough to prevent Nazism he and his colleagues did a great deal more than some in other areas of Europe.

God grant eternal life to his good servant Pius xii

Amen!

 

[Agnus_Dei]

I have just finished reading a biography of Pope Pius xii called ""Crown of Glory"by Hatch and Walsh published in 1957. Eugenio Pacelli as a papal nuncio developed an abiding love of the German people when he was there.....the common folk during the bitter years after the first world war and leading up to the second world war. He was a bitter opponent of the godless tryannical government of fascism and communism.

As a Roman by birth he did all he could to prevent the destruction of his birthplace....he emptied the Vatican bank to assist Roman citizens and the displaced of Europe at wars end.

I cannot and will not believe he was Hitlers socalled pope when the Chief Rabbi Zolli converted at the end of the war in part due to the direct aid given to him by the Pope and to the Jewish people who appealed for assistance in raising the ransom of gold to keep the nazi menace from their doors.

If the pope did not do enough to prevent Nazism he and his colleagues did a great deal more than some in other areas of Europe.

God grant eternal life to his good servant Pius xii

Amen!

BG: keep in mind that most anti-Catholics haven’t a clue how to think for themselves or severely lack in the Critical Thinking department.

Most have an axe to grind and attack their research with their minds already made-up and will therefore use only the material that suits their biasness.

An example is in LE’s link, once I saw the rotating skull's I chuckled :laugh: and the majority of the “Professor’s” sources were anti-Catholic…Not a very objective research and that’s what he’s feeding his class…what he believes? This is a prime example why my wife and I home school, that way when our kids do get to college they’ll know how to spot biased ‘professors’ and will have the Critical Thinking skills necessary to form an honest, well thought out, objective decision.

Here are a few note worthy quotes:

Rabbi Barry Dov Schwartz wrote in the 1964 summer issue of Conservative Judaism: Many Jews were persuaded to convert after the war, as a sign of gratitude, to that institution which had saved their lives.

Former Israeli diplomat and now Orthodox Jewish Rabbi Pinchas Lapide wrote a book Three Popes and the Jews, Lapide estimated the total number of Jews that had been spared as a result of Pius XII’s throwing the Church’s weight into the clandestine struggle to save them. After totaling the numbers of Jews saved in different areas and deducting the numbers saved by other causes, such as the praiseworthy efforts of some European Protestants, The final number of Jewish lives in whose rescue the Catholic Church had been the instrument is thus at least 700,000 souls, but in all probability it is much closer to . . . 860,000. This is a total larger than all other Jewish relief organizations in Europe, combined, were able to save. Lapide calculated that Pius XII and the Church he headed constituted the most successful Jewish aid organization in all of Europe during the war, dwarfing the Red Cross and all other aid societies.

Lapide also noted in the same book, eulogies from a number of Jewish leaders concerning Pope after his death:

Golda Meir, then Israeli representative to the UN and future PM of Israel stated: We share the grief of the world over the death of His Holiness Pius XII…During the ten years of Nazi terroe, when our people passed through the hoors of martyrdom, the Pope raised his voice to condemn the persecutors and to commiserate with their victims.

Nahum Goldman, president of the World Jewish Congress: With special gratitude we remember all he has done for the persecuted Jews during one of the darkest periods in their entire history.

Elio Toaff, Chief Rabbi of Rome, following Rabbi Zolli’s conversion *see below*: More than anyone else, we have had the opportunity to appreciate the great kindness, filled with compassion and magnanimity, that the Pope displayed during the terrible years of persecution and terror

The most well-known Jewish figure of this century, Albert Einstein: Only the Catholic Church protested against the Hitlerian onslaught on liberty. Up till then I had not been interested in the Church, but today I feel a great admiration for the Church, which alone has had the courage to struggle for spiritual truth and moral liberty.

**After the war, Chief Rabbi of Rome, Israel Zolli became a Catholic and, to honor the Pope for what he had done for the Jews and the role he had played in Zolli’s conversion, took the name "Eugenio"—the Pope’s given name—as his own baptismal name. Zolli stressed that his conversion was for theological reasons, which was certainly true, but the fact that the Pope had worked so hard on behalf of the Jews no doubt played a role in inspiring him to look at the truths of Christianity.

The Chief Rabbi of Rome, Israel Zolli, also made a statement of thanks: What the Vatican did will be indelibly and eternally engraved in our hearts. . . . Priests and even high prelates did things that will forever be an honor to Catholicism.**

In addition I presented here :http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/03/30/wisrael130.xml that the secret files of the Nazi Secret police have recently been discovered and released and within these files are proof that the Nazi’s weren’t too fond of the Pope and criticized him for his efforts in aiding the Jews…but again, it’s not anti-catholic enough for some to consider in their “study”.

My advice BG…Don’t feed the trolls.

 

[LadyEagle]

An example is in LE’s link, once I saw the rotating skull's I chuckled :laugh:

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[Colin]

Former Israeli diplomat and now Orthodox Jewish Rabbi Pinchas Lapide wrote a book Three Popes and the Jews, Lapide estimated the total number of Jews that had been spared as a result of Pius XII’s throwing the Church’s weight into the clandestine struggle to save them. After totaling the numbers of Jews saved in different areas and deducting the numbers saved by other causes, such as the praiseworthy efforts of some European Protestants, The final number of Jewish lives in whose rescue the Catholic Church had been the instrument is thus at least 700,000 souls, but in all probability it is much closer to . . . 860,000. This is a total larger than all other Jewish relief organizations in Europe, combined, were able to save. Lapide calculated that Pius XII and the Church he headed constituted the most successful Jewish aid organization in all of Europe during the war, dwarfing the Red Cross and all other aid societies.

Elio Toaff, Chief Rabbi of Rome, following Rabbi Zolli’s conversion *see below*: More than anyone else, we have had the opportunity to appreciate the great kindness, filled with compassion and magnanimity, that the Pope displayed during the terrible years of persecution and terror
After the war, Chief Rabbi of Rome, Israel Zolli became a Catholic and, to honor the Pope for what he had done for the Jews and the role he had played in Zolli’s conversion, took the name "Eugenio"—the Pope’s given name—as his own baptismal name. Zolli stressed that his conversion was for theological reasons, which was certainly true, but the fact that the Pope had worked so hard on behalf of the Jews no doubt played a role in inspiring him to look at the truths of Christianity..

Hi there,[FONT=&quot]
yes, in 1967 Israeli diplomat Pinchas Lapide wrote that Pius XII and his personal representatives saved up to 860,000 Jewish lives.[FONT=&quot][/FONT] This statement bases itself on the notion that all Jews who survived in Catholic lands owe their survival to the Pope. Doubtful then,[FONT=&quot][/FONT] the statement has been utterly discredited[FONT=&quot][/FONT] by the thirty years of scholarly research since. Regarding the rescuers, the following statistics have been found; Less than 1% of people who were affiliated with Christianity were rescuers. Church affiliation was the same for rescuers and non rescuers, as was attendance of church schools. More rescuers described themselves as either “very” or “not at all”[FONT=&quot][/FONT] religious than non rescuers. A surprisingly low percentage of rescuers cite religion as even one of their motivations (12-27%).[FONT=&quot][/FONT] This is true even with those who defined themselves as “somewhat” to “very” religious. That is, even most very religious rescuers did not find in their religion their motivation to rescue.[FONT=&quot][/FONT] Concerning those who did act from religious motivation, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]N. Tec[/FONT][FONT=&quot] comments: “pious rescuers had to rely on personal rather than official religious values ... moreover, the rescuers who were devout seemed to be devout in a special way. They were independent in their interpretation of religious values, and this independence prevented them from blindly following the teachings of the Church.”[FONT=&quot][/FONT] Concerning [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Hungary[/FONT][FONT=&quot], Braham notes: “Lacking encouragement from the upper levels of the hierarchy, the junior members of the clergy generally failed to become actively involved in protesting the measures that were taken against the Jews in the countryside.”[FONT=&quot][/FONT] With regards to Poland, where the greatest number of Jews lived, while the majority of Poles were Catholic, religion was more likely to be an inhibiting factor.[FONT=&quot][/FONT] As mentioned in an earlier post, the only rescue organization, Zegota, had no clergy in its leadership, and received no money from the Catholic Church. By a factor of thousands, more people who described themselves as “devout Catholics” personally murdered Jews than personally rescued them. That is, Lapide’s statement that all Jews who survived in Catholic lands owe their survival to the Catholic Church and its Pope is profoundly unsustainable. That it is still quoted by Catholic historians[FONT=&quot][/FONT] as “gospel” (based, it is feared, on the ethnicity of its author-which is always mentioned-rather than on any intrinsic merit) is evidence not of their search for truth, but of a desire to defend dogma to the ignorant.

Regarding the gold from Rome, after being asked, the Vatican offered to loan the gold to the Jewish community. In fact, the gold was raised without this assistance, which was nevertheless appreciated. None of the 50 kilos of gold sent to the Nazis came from the Vatican. Rabbi Zolli is a problematic figure, and I would suggest you research him more fully before quoting him. The Pope's utter failure re those Jews from Rome who were then rounded up and murdered is well known.[/FONT] The sole female survivor of the deportation, Settimia Spizzichino, found alive by Allied soldiers after lying in a pile of bodies for two days, spoke in 1995 about her ordeal: "I came back from Auschwitz on my own. I lost my mother, two sisters, a niece, and one brother. Pius XII could have warned us about what was going to happen. We might have escaped from Rome and joined the partisans. He played right into the Germans’ hands. It all happened right under his nose ... And when they say that the Pope is like Jesus Christ it is not true. He did not save a single child. Nothing”.[FONT=&quot][/FONT]http://www.baptistboard.com/#_ftn1


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[FONT=&quot][/FONT] Writing in 1963, the German Catholic Carl Amery stated: “If then the Catholic heroes, upon whom so much worth is placed today were prophets, it must be said that they were prophets taking a stand against their own religious milieu fully as much as against the domination of the heretics.” G. Zahn, 1963: 163.

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[FONT=&quot][/FONT] In 1969, 150 people answered an appeal via the mass media of Austria for people who had aided Jews to reply. Of these, only one stated that her act was prompted by Christian motivation. In 1939, 94% of Austria’s population was registered as Catholic . E. Weinzierl, 296.

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[Eliyahu]

Colin,

You made a very good research on this controversial issues. Your study shows the depth and covers the nuances and the delicacy of human hypocrisy and the complicated aspects of the history. Keep up the good work.