Ok I'm jumping in here kinda late, but let me ask a quick question. In my opinion it is just as important to keep mental purity. So if you let your daughter or son get involved emotionally in a relationship you are running a greater risk of them obtaining baggage for their future mate to deal with. That being said, would you advise your child to not become emotionally involved with anyone? If so how would they get to know their future mate before marriage? I would much rather my mate kiss or hold hands with someone (pre-marriage), then to have a past emotional attachment to someone.
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Holding Hands
- Thread starter Clean1
- Start date
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
There is no need for this kind of spirit in a debate. Even when bapmom and I have disagreed on topics she has always acted in a way befitting a gracious Christian lady. This condescending attitude is improper, especially in the youth forum.
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
I would like to see a few young men give their point of view on this. Where a girl may see hand holding or kissing as just a way to show affection and friendship, it is often much more to a guy. Both sides should be taken into consideration. How about it young men, anyone care to share how they HONESTLY feel when kissing a girl?
Maybe I am missing something here. When my wife and I are holding hands or kissing, it does something to me, I find it exciting and exhilarating. This is after 28 years of marriage. Do I really want my kids to experience those same emotions in their teens?
Cindy,
I finally found the comment that you may have taken as saying you were an unfit mother. I can see how you may have taken it that way.This comment was also out of place in this debate. "Just because your children have dodged the bullet, does not mean that they ALL will. And just wait....so far you haven't got any grandbabies out of wedlock. I certainly hope you never do! And I say that with all sincerity." I am not a moderator in this forum, so my words have no authority here, but should have read the previous posts more clearly and commented in both at the same time.
Maybe I am missing something here. When my wife and I are holding hands or kissing, it does something to me, I find it exciting and exhilarating. This is after 28 years of marriage. Do I really want my kids to experience those same emotions in their teens?
Cindy,
I finally found the comment that you may have taken as saying you were an unfit mother. I can see how you may have taken it that way.This comment was also out of place in this debate. "Just because your children have dodged the bullet, does not mean that they ALL will. And just wait....so far you haven't got any grandbabies out of wedlock. I certainly hope you never do! And I say that with all sincerity." I am not a moderator in this forum, so my words have no authority here, but should have read the previous posts more clearly and commented in both at the same time.
young male here!
i've never kissed a girl. i've never been kissed. for me, i know i'm not ready for that as of yet. God'll bring somebody along and will lead the relationship in the way it should go. to me, hugging, and holding hands does not lead me into temptation at all. for some it might. it's mostly personal preference, and what the persons can take. but i don't think that we should be testing how far we should go. 'cuz we don't know how far, and, well... you get my point. it could go too far if you test the waters too much. so for me, i stick with what i know will not lead me wanting more.
everybody's different. so if you do something with your partner and it does feel "exciting and exhilerating" as c4k noted, then do not go there. (this is if you're not married) if you do go there, then i think you've crossed that fine line of testing the waters
i hope that makes sense.
gekko.
i've never kissed a girl. i've never been kissed. for me, i know i'm not ready for that as of yet. God'll bring somebody along and will lead the relationship in the way it should go. to me, hugging, and holding hands does not lead me into temptation at all. for some it might. it's mostly personal preference, and what the persons can take. but i don't think that we should be testing how far we should go. 'cuz we don't know how far, and, well... you get my point. it could go too far if you test the waters too much. so for me, i stick with what i know will not lead me wanting more.
everybody's different. so if you do something with your partner and it does feel "exciting and exhilerating" as c4k noted, then do not go there. (this is if you're not married) if you do go there, then i think you've crossed that fine line of testing the waters
i hope that makes sense.
gekko.
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
Excellent gekko! You show great wisdom for a man your age!
Sigmund Freud is not a source I would hold as trustworthy. Why would I take his advice when it comes to these kind of issues?
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
Put my wife and I in your world. I was just reading some of your comments to her and she was "amening" heartily
.ive NEVER even had a boyfriend. ive never held hands with a boy and i dont even know what its like to want to kiss a boy. im just going by my own, like you said GinaL, limitations. i go to a private christian school with only 12-13 kids. only 1 boy my age there. i stopped going to public school in 5th grade, so ive never had a chance to have a boyfriend. ive NEVER had any temptatations to kiss a boy because ive never been in any of those situations. have i had temptations to hold hands? yes but im the kind of person thats too shy to ever do that. ive know other girls that would love to kiss, hug, and be alone with boys and another girl (16-17 years) who was pregnant. im not ready to be a mother at 15. i agree with Bapmom and PamelaK on the kissing issue. Yes TennisNE1... it would be their future spouse but that persons spouse none the less. you should save kissing for the one God has picked out for you. I would find it an honor that my future husband had refrained himself from kissing, huging, etc. and saved himself just for me. Also.. if you commited fornication and then brokeup with that person, you would also be (you know) with someonelse's future husband/wife but still that other persons husband/wife.
TennisNE1,
when I referred to "that doesn't mean ALL of them will" when speaking of "dodging a bullet" I should have been MUCH more clear. Im sorry that you got the impression that I called you an unfit mother. I was trying to refer to not ALL TEENS that are taught this principle of "practice before marriage." I was not trying to refer to only your own children. I can certainly see how you would have taken that wrong, and I apologize for not speaking in a more clear and careful manner.
This is a matter near and dear to my own heart, as I have seen the lives of my own siblings, as well as other kids, scarred beyond repair with this idea. And my parents just figured we had enough self-control to not go "all the way."
I also apologize if you think I was being self-righteous last night. This is just as much of an issue with me, to make sure Im teaching my kids right, as it is with anyone else. I need just as much help as anyone else.
Brice,
no one answered ya yet! I believe you have an excellent point. We encourage our kids to become friends with all the kids at school. They should have both girls and boys as friends. But we encourage them to not pair off into couples just yet. It is an official rule in the high school....no dating....though it can be exempted on a case-to-case basis. We don't provide dating times for them, or any of that. But what you said is exactly why, Brice.
Sure the kids go ahead and have crushes on each other. And something interesting has happened....they all seem to know who each other likes! It has taken all that secrecy out, and the kids have no problem with everyone knowing. That part surprised me.
They just are not allowed to pair off in distinct couples and only spend time with each other. THis has allowed them to become friends first, among their groups. That way you get to know the opposite gender on sort of neutral ground first.
when I referred to "that doesn't mean ALL of them will" when speaking of "dodging a bullet" I should have been MUCH more clear. Im sorry that you got the impression that I called you an unfit mother. I was trying to refer to not ALL TEENS that are taught this principle of "practice before marriage." I was not trying to refer to only your own children. I can certainly see how you would have taken that wrong, and I apologize for not speaking in a more clear and careful manner.
This is a matter near and dear to my own heart, as I have seen the lives of my own siblings, as well as other kids, scarred beyond repair with this idea. And my parents just figured we had enough self-control to not go "all the way."
I also apologize if you think I was being self-righteous last night. This is just as much of an issue with me, to make sure Im teaching my kids right, as it is with anyone else. I need just as much help as anyone else.
Brice,
no one answered ya yet! I believe you have an excellent point. We encourage our kids to become friends with all the kids at school. They should have both girls and boys as friends. But we encourage them to not pair off into couples just yet. It is an official rule in the high school....no dating....though it can be exempted on a case-to-case basis. We don't provide dating times for them, or any of that. But what you said is exactly why, Brice.
Sure the kids go ahead and have crushes on each other. And something interesting has happened....they all seem to know who each other likes! It has taken all that secrecy out, and the kids have no problem with everyone knowing. That part surprised me.
They just are not allowed to pair off in distinct couples and only spend time with each other. THis has allowed them to become friends first, among their groups. That way you get to know the opposite gender on sort of neutral ground first.
Brice, what you need to understand is that, as a general rule, for a girl, hand holding and kissing DOES denote an emotional attachment. You seemed to separate the two in the last sentence in your post.
I simply ditto everything that bapmom said in her response to you. We have not allowed our children to date.
I have been reading this thread for a couple of days and have decided to jump in. Clean 1, I admire your morals and high standards. You are a blessing and tribute to your parents, I am sure! But someday, you will meet a boy, fall in love and want to get married. What about the engagement period? Do you think it will be OK to kiss then? Just wondering if it makes any difference to you if you are engaged...
Gwen
Gwen
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
I am really proud of the young people posting here. Most them really seem to have their heads on straight and understand the dangers of "playing with fire."
It's interesting that no one here in his "faithfulness to the text" has corrected you in this. It is good for a man not to touch...NEVERTHELESS...let every man have his own wife. Or, in the words of the NIV, It is good for a man not to marry, but since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife....
Paul is not forbidding an immoral practice in 1 Cor. 7:1. It is not immoral for a man to touch [Strong's # 680] a woman. Christ touched women:
Matthew 8:15 And he touched <680> her hand, and the fever left her: and she arose, and ministered unto them.
In every instance of the <680>, sex doesn't even enter the picture:
</font>
- Matthew 8:3 And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched <680> him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.</font>
- Matthew 9:20 And, behold, a woman, which was diseased with an issue of blood twelve years, came behind him, and touched <680> the hem of his garment:</font>
- Matthew 9:21 For she said within herself, If I may but touch <680> his garment, I shall be whole.</font>
- Matthew 9:29 Then touched he <680> their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.</font>
- Matthew 14:36 And besought him that they might only touch <680> the hem of his garment: and as many as touched <680> were made perfectly whole.</font>
- Matthew 17:7 And Jesus came and touched <680> them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.</font>
- Matthew 20:34 So Jesus had compassion on them, and touched <680> their eyes: and immediately their eyes received sight, and they followed him.</font>
- Mark 1:41 And Jesus, moved with compassion, put forth his hand, and touched <680> him, and saith unto him, I will; be thou clean.</font>
- Mark 3:10 For he had healed many; insomuch that they pressed upon him for to touch <680> him, as many as had plagues.</font>
- Mark 5:27 When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched <680> his garment.</font>
- Mark 5:28 For she said, If I may touch <680> but his clothes, I shall be whole.</font>
- Mark 5:30 And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned him about in the press, and said, Who touched <680> my clothes?</font>
- Mark 5:31 And his disciples said unto him, Thou seest the multitude thronging thee, and sayest thou, Who touched <680> me?</font>
- Mark 6:56 And whithersoever he entered, into villages, or cities, or country, they laid the sick in the streets, and besought him that they might touch <680> if it were but the border of his garment: and as many as touched <680> him were made whole.</font>
- Mark 7:33 And he took him aside from the multitude, and put his fingers into his ears, and he spit, and touched <680> his tongue;</font>
- Mark 8:22 And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch <680> him.</font>
- Mark 10:13 And they brought young children to him, that he should touch <680> them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them.</font>
- Luke 5:13 And he put forth his hand, and touched <680> him, saying, I will: be thou clean. And immediately the leprosy departed from him.</font>
- Luke 6:19 And the whole multitude sought to touch <680> him: for there went virtue out of him, and healed them all.</font>
- Luke 7:14 And he came and touched <680> the bier: and they that bare him stood still. And he said, Young man, I say unto thee, Arise.</font>
- Luke 7:39 Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth <680> him: for she is a sinner.</font>
- Luke 8:44 Came behind him, and touched <680> the border of his garment: and immediately her issue of blood stanched.</font>
- Luke 8:45 And Jesus said, Who touched <680> me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched <680> me?</font>
- Luke 8:46 And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched <680> me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me.</font>
- Luke 8:47 And when the woman saw that she was not hid, she came trembling, and falling down before him, she declared unto him before all the people for what cause she had touched <680> him, and how she was healed immediately.</font>
- Luke 18:15 And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch <680> them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them.</font>
- Luke 22:51 And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched <680> his ear, and healed him.</font>
- John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch <680> me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.</font>
- 2 Corinthians 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch <680> not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,</font>
- Colossians 2:21 Touch <680> not; taste not; handle not;</font>
- 1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth <680> him not.</font>
Gina is not absolutely right. Her response was based upon her own experiences as judged by her own opinions with no appeals anywhere made to the Scriptures. Though her testimony that she's "never had thrills run through her body over hand holding" may be true not only for herself, but for most women, I can safely assert that it was a wholly different experience for the boy. But notice that Gina did not have a neutral response. She said, "it's nice, it's comforting." An emotional bond is created through that kind of physical contact. Those bonds are intended for specific relationships, and dating isn't one of them.
The thing I find most disturbing is the destructive advice you're getting from the supposedly mature and educated members here.
[ November 14, 2005, 03:48 PM: Message edited by: Aaron ]
That's all well and good. I support you completely, and applaud you for drawing a moral line for yourself.
However, if you saw another couple who was dating, and they were holding hands, would you think it wrong for them? If you did, this is where you would be in error.
I held my wife's hand when I dated her. I even kissed her goodnight after about a month of dating. But we never had sexual relations, or even gave the impression that we had sexual relations, until we married. And mind you, I was 38 when we got married. Of course, just because I kissed my wife beforehand doesn't mean everyone should. This is a "let each be convinced in his own mind" issue.
As for "thrills running through the body" when holding hands, I got those just by looking at her. Holding hands had nothing to do with it
A little off the topic: I remember once aI had my arms around another guy's shoulders. A college aged young man came by and called me a "faggot". What he failed to realize was that the man I was with was my brother whom I hadn't seen for a year. To make things worse, the guy who called me that was wearing a t-shirt that had his church's name on it.
[ November 14, 2005, 04:02 PM: Message edited by: Johnv ]
Originally posted by Aaron:
I'm working off the assumption that if one is dating, one is looking for a marriage partner. If not, there's really no point!
Once you're old enough for that, you're old enough to start feeling emotions.
I'm certainly not going by my own experiences. I was abused and wow...certainly not pure by any means both because of that and later of my own volition as a radically unsaved person.
I understand the value of purity, and feel absolutely horrible on behalf of anyone that willingly gives that up. That's just terrible and they have to feel so bad afterwards...
I'm certainly not advocating sexual activity in unmarried people. Purity must be an awesome thing, pleasing to both the newly married couple and to God.
I am asserting that holding hands can be, and is, a perfectly normal part of a pure relationship. Of course there are some emotions involved. What is wrong with that? Boys are boys and girls are girls, there's emotions involved in just that fact.
Aaron or anyone else, if you can't hold hands with someone and control your hormones at the same time, simply don't. I still assert that for the average person, this isn't an issue, and that some emotion is perfectly normal and natural and ok and a part of growing up.
Appeals to scripture:
1. do not be a stumbling block to your children.
Are you being a stumbling block by being overly harsh and burdening them with rules you can't find in the scriptures?
2. Raise your child in the nurture and admonition of the Lord...do not add or take from the scriptures.
See comments under number one.
3. Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it.
Did you train your child up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, so that you feel assured that under proper supervision and influence, your child will not be driven to impurity by every day common acts of friendliness and affection?
4. ....not in passionate lust like the heathen...
Give the kids some credit and allow them to grow and mature as God intended them too. Don't assume they're all out of control heathens.
BTW one of the closest times in my old church was when everyone held hands and prayed together. You held hands with whoever you were sitting next too. No out of control emotions, simply a feeling of safety and comfort and unity as we joined together as Christians and prayed to our God. Was there any degree of sensuality in that? I'd certainly hope that a couple who is pondering marriage can hold hands and pray together, or just hold hands and be able to say hey, we're an item! It seems rotten to take that away from someone on the grounds that it would lead to illicit behaviors.
Aaron, I'm not really into arguing such an irrelevent topic. I sincerely feel it's not worth it! There's differences of opinion on this, to be sure.
I hope the teens here can see that not all issues are black and white. Decisions have to be made based on scripture, personal conviction, and the advice of your parents and those teaching you at church. That may or may not conflict with what I say, or with what Aaron says, or anyone else.
But...I do beg of you to not let such trivial matters bias your opinion toward other Christian friends of yours if their opinion on such matters disagrees with yours. What you all have in common is your love of Christ and your desire to do the right thing and stay pure, so focus on that together despite minor differences in approach.
A big problem in churches in that there isn't unity, and it's precisely because people get all worked up over issues and lose the focus, which is always going to be Christ!
That is a major error, and I see it being passed on to today's youth. Please recognize it as error!
Aaron and I may never agree on this particular topic, but I'm pretty sure he still understands that we're both Christians and we both have the same goal in mind with this topic...to honor Christ and to help encourage you guys to stay pure and do the right thing.
I certainly hope so anyhow!
So, for the sake of peace, I'm going to quit discussing this particular matter, as my thoughts on it have been made more than clear.
Aaron, I hope you do realize we're going for the same goal here. I appreciate that your heart is with our young people, and am thankful to God for fellow Christians like you.
There certainly is. Before one starts looking for a marriage partner, one must have a reasonable understanding, comprehension, expectation, and knowlege of what to look for in a marriage partner in the first place. This can be done for dating, even though one is not yet looking for a marriage partner.
Further, one must know how to deal with and interact with persons of the opposite gender. Dating gives a person the skills to do this.
It seems only in the last 50 or so years have we associated dating with sexual relations. Not so. We need to get our minds out of the gutter.