Holt ministry celebrates its love of God - and beer

[KenH]

As it is a sin.

If you think that drinking alcoholic beverages in any amount is a sin, then it is a sin for you do so. However, when we use God's Word as our objective standard we understand that drinking alcoholic beverages in moderation is not a sin.

 

[Palatka51]

I am not real sure why you answered me in the way you did. I had no one person in mind when I put up my post on arrogance. But it did come to my mind as I read through a number of entries on this thread. It is not restricted to this thread.

When I was 18 I knew everything. When I was 19 I was in a Physical Science class and suddenly I realized there was something I didn't know. It has been down hill since and now I know that in the scheme of things I know nothing. Got a few glimmers throwing rays up over the horizon. Problem is when I finally reach a mountain top in my searches what do I fine, whole ranges of mountains ahead. I have learned to enjoy ambugity and do not find it frightening at all. Well, enough of this for now. Blessings.:type:

This post has really blessed my heart. Thank you.

 

[Palatka51]

If you think that drinking alcoholic beverages in any amount is a sin, then it is a sin for you do so. However, when we use God's Word as our objective standard we understand that drinking alcoholic beverages in moderation is not a sin.

It is in mine own Biblical studies that has convinced me that it is as sure a sin as if I took a knife to my own throat. As soon as the knife pierced my skin and went no deeper. Is it wrong to let another know where they stand on an issue even though they do not see it in the same light as you? If my stance is a stance of untruth then my stance is what it is and no harm is done to any one. Except that I go into eternity without the taste of a beer on my tung. I guess to some beer drinkers that would be a sin. :laugh:

 

[KenH]

I guess to some beer drinkers that would be a sin. :laugh:

Well, for those folks it would be like taking an airplane ride in first class and skipping the meal because they didn't realize that it came with the airplane ride.

 

[Palatka51]

Well, for those folks it would be like taking an airplane ride in first class and skipping the meal because they didn't realize that it came with the airplane ride.

Funny, Thanks Ken.
I have a confession that might shock some here. I actually cook with wine. Not often but on occasion. :saint:

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Funny, Thanks Ken.
I have a confession that might shock some here. I actually cook with wine. Not often but on occasion. :saint:

The poison cooks out from what I have been told.

 

[charles_creech78]

1co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Ga 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Ga 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Ga 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. I don't know about yall. But I want to go to heaven

 

[Palatka51]

The poison cooks out from what I have been told.

Yes,
Sometimes in my business someone gives a gift of wine. I graciously state that I am not a drinker but I do know a recipe that it should be great in. I have as yet to buy any in public and likely never will.

 

[KenH]

I actually cook with wine. Not often but on occasion.

I certainly see no problem with that. And, for the record, I have drank hardly any alcoholic beverages in my lifetime, the total amount could be placed in a single glass, and it's been well over 35 years since I have any any alcoholic beverage touch my lips.

 

[Palatka51]

I certainly see no problem with that. And, for the record, I have drank hardly any alcoholic beverages in my lifetime, the total amount could be placed in a single glass, and it's been well over 35 years since I have any any alcoholic beverage touch my lips.

As long as we are in confession mode. My parents had just joined a small Baptist Church that was holding communion. I was saved at the age of 9 and the Church had a closed communion but I was eligible to partake. My parents were not allowed to partake as Dad had a disagreement with them on some doctrinal issues. They were a very judgmental congregation. Anyway they served wine in the communion. Anyone here knows that the little glass holds less than a teaspoon of liquid. So when they passed the tray to us we downed it like good little Baptists and I felt it go down all the way to my 12 year old belly, then I felt warm all over. My sister, bless her little 8 year old self spewed it out and hollered out, "What was that?". We were used to Welches. :laugh:
That was my first experience with wine and from then own I did not like it. A beer I have never had. It wasn't like I did not have opportunity it's just that it does not appeal to me. Thank God, because there are a lot of things that I have to deal with other than an alcoholic addiction. An addiction that just might bring to the surface things that I do not want to see. Remember that God does not let us get tempted by the things that could easily beset us. If that little glass could make me feel warm then I don't want to know what a full 8oz glass might do.
As an adult my wife and I attended a wedding of a relative on her side. Unknown to us the punch had Champagne in it. The taste was funny but it did not register until about the middle of the cup I got that warm feeling again. I sat the cup down and just smiled at every one. :laugh:
Well that's just about it then.

Boy! Confession is really good for the soul. I've been carrying that weight around too long.:thumbs:

 

[Linda64]

If you think that drinking alcoholic beverages in any amount is a sin, then it is a sin for you do so. However, when we use God's Word as our objective standard we understand that drinking alcoholic beverages in moderation is not a sin.

Drinking alcoholic beverages is a sin for everyone--God is not a respector of persons. The Word of God is not our objective standard----it is our final authority and nowhere does it state that one can drink in moderation....moderation is a joke. How does a person know where to draw the line....one drink can make one drunk...better err on the safe side and not drink at all than take the risk of becoming a drunkard. There is no such thing as moderation of drinking alcoholic beverages. My late husband found that out the hard way...now he's dead.

Proverbs 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.

 

[webdog]

Maybe I've just been out of touch lately, but since when did coffee and alcohol become comprable?

Ounce for ounce, caffeine affects the mind more than alcohol. Fact.

 

[webdog]

It is really not a good idea to call someone a hypocrite. This is an exchange of ideas. Not agreeing does not define hypocrite.

It being against the policy of this board, I wouldn't do it again.

Have a nice weekend.

If someone can define alcohol as sin...but have no problem with the drug called caffeine in their church, I'm sorry, but that's being hypocritical.

I didn't know you are a moderater now

 

[webdog]

Plus the fact that Jesus would not have made a product that would have lead many to drunkenness. Test us He will but tempt us never.

Why? He made a "product" of fish and bread that could have lead to gluttony! I dont' see anybody saying Christ "tempted" the crowds to become gluttons.

 

[webdog]

God created the grape and men figured out how to make alcohol from it. Which God allowed, for from alcohol we get medicinal usage. The first time man drank it, it produced sin.

With that note I have stumbled unto something. The fermentation process is the breakdown of sugars interacting with yeast from dead matter. So from the process of death we have a trigger for life, alcohol. It's proper use will sustain life and will make clean (disinfect) a wound that has infection.

The same might be said about God's creation of cannabis, and poppy. In the case of poppy, medicinal use is wide spread. As for cannabis, the judgment is still out. I for one believe that there a medicinal use for chemo patients.

In the case of food, it is man's slothfulness that causes the obesity. And if for some reason he/she cannot be mobile then food intake must be cut back.

The tongue you've got correct. God created it, fallen man has corrupted it.

And point #4 gets a hardy, AMEN!

Your post implies man created fermentation. Fermentation begins to take place IMMEDIATELY upon a grape being plucked by the natural yeast on the skin. Man didn't create wine / fermentation....God did.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Ounce for ounce, caffeine affects the mind more than alcohol. Fact.

Funny, I have never read in the papers of anyone being killed by a driver under the influence of coffee.

12 fluid ounces of alcohol numbs the taste buds and dulls the senses. The same amount of caffeine does not have this effect.

 

[webdog]

No, that is an assumption. The fact that at a party such as this the drinkers would have been drunk as it is clear that they had drank all the previous wine. In a drunken state all things bad become good. The ugly bar maid becomes Venus de Milo. The nasty drink becomes tasty. The participants of this party would have been drunk out of their gourds. Do you honestly think that the wine Jesus made added to their drunkenness?
Therefore the wine at this wedding was indeed nonalcoholic from the beginning till the end.

Havenstadt provides Scripture...you provide opinion and flawed logic. I'll stick with Scripture.

Also, our Lord will provide what Christ confims is the "best" wine in Isaiah 25:6...the WELL AGED wine. I have yet to see someone state a juice that is well aged being the best. If this were the case, there would not be expiration dates on bottles of juice since the well aged juice is the best

 

[webdog]

It is in mine own Biblical studies that has convinced me that it is as sure a sin as if I took a knife to my own throat. As soon as the knife pierced my skin and went no deeper. Is it wrong to let another know where they stand on an issue even though they do not see it in the same light as you? If my stance is a stance of untruth then my stance is what it is and no harm is done to any one. Except that I go into eternity without the taste of a beer on my tung. I guess to some beer drinkers that would be a sin. :laugh:

You contradict yourself. You state any alcohol is sin...but condone it's use medicinally.

 

[Linda64]

Your post implies man created fermentation. Fermentation begins to take place IMMEDIATELY upon a grape being plucked by the natural yeast on the skin. Man didn't create wine / fermentation....God did.

Don't know from what science book you are getting your information, but fermentation needs MAN'S input. Vinous fermentation does not occur on the vine...if left on the vine, the grapes will rot and turn to vinegar, NOT alcohol! Let some grapes rot and you will find out. If the fruit of the vine turned to alcohol, man would not need wineries or wine making machines. God did not create alcohol, MAN made it!

 

[webdog]

Funny, Thanks Ken.
I have a confession that might shock some here. I actually cook with wine. Not often but on occasion. :saint:

So now you use something you deem sinful to cook with? That's like saying you buy Playboy to use as litter compost, or marijuana plants to decorate your atrium.