-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Holy Father according to who?
- Thread starter 37818
- Start date
Yeah, and? There was an evolution of the Christian Church through those first few centuries and is seems to me that since it happened that was the way God wanted it to go. It was your guy John Smythe who rejected all that the One Universal Christian Church taught. He himself was a renegade from the from the original renegades, a former Church of England minister if I am not mistaken. Suddenly now he seems to have the truth about all things with the previous 1600 years of Christian teachings nothing but error filled. Go figure!
So a lie was perpetrated for 1000 years until the great schism happened between the Eastern and Western churches? But a funny thing happened with this schism, even the Eastern Church did not abandon the basic belief's and teachings of the aforementioned Western Christian Rite. No sir, both adhered to basically the same doctrines.
Tell me, if the church was so perfect in doctrine then why did they at one time not allow the common man to own a Bible. Why did the church persecute so many people?
37818
Well-Known Member
Well, that is what you currently believe. I believe the NT churches preceded the reformation Baptists, the apostolic authority of the NT never ceased and was rediscovered by the reformers as a matter of degree. The Baptist belief being the NT.
RCommando
Member
The One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, alone, was given the privilege and the duty of safeguarding the teachings of Christ and the faith. Perhaps they didn't permit ownership for fear of everyone reading the bible and then coming up with their own ridiculous interpretation of it, thereby, leading souls away from the truth. Unfortunately, this very thing occurred in the 1500's, and many souls have been guided to hell because of the thousands of denominations that have come forth, spewing their arrogant, self-centered "hot-takes" in regard to how the scriptures should actually be interpreted.
It never ceases to amaze me that no one truly understood what Christ was asking of us until the 1500's... ASTONISHING! According to some of you, no one has truly grasped the meaning of the Sacred Scriptures until they themselves showed up to reveal it. How can any Protestant denomination be seen as any different from the Mormons or the Jehovah's Witnesses? All founded on a lone man's interpretation (which really just means how he would like scripture to be interpreted according to his own preferences). Incredulous, that "Joe Blow" in the year of our Lord 2019 has as much authority to interpret the Sacred Scriptures as the very Church that compiled and canonized them? Ironic, that the scriptures have been given ultimate authority, when the authority of the very institution that gave them said authority has been written off as "anti-christ" and "false prophet". Whether you like it or not, you acknowledge the authority of the Holy Catholic Church every time you submit to the very scriptures she supplied you, by the grace given to her by Christ.
That would be why the Catholic Church was wary of granting anyone and everyone access to the Sacred Scriptures. The effects of the "Reformation" have been truly horrific.
I would be more inclined to believe that it was out of fear of unbiblical practices (ex: infant baptism, prayers to saints, etc.) and rackets like the selling of endulgences being exposed.
Show us the teaching and doctrine that you can't own a bible.
No problem owning a bible. But your talking about the equivalent of 100,000$ set of books today. A bible was so expensive people had them chained up.
When the printing press came 1450. That is when a poor man was able to get scripture.
Also why would you want a bible from Catholics if they are wrong? Why not get a genuine authentic one from the TRUE CHURCH instead? ......oh thats right no one else around.
Yeah well He said Teacher and Master too. Can't just whine about Father being a touchy subject and forget TEACHER and MASTER. This the the meal you fixed now swallow it.
1 corinthians 4
14I do not write these things to shame you, but to admonish you as my beloved children. 15For if you were to have countless tutors in Christ, yet you would not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel. 16Therefore I exhort you, be imitators of me.
I BECAME YOUR FATHER THROUGH THE GOSPEL.
Wow either Paul is breaking your silly rule or he is just using the title father in the same spirit we are instructed to imitate.
Philippians 2
22But you know of his proven worth, that he served with me in the furtherance of the gospel like a child serving his father.
You going to notice plenty of instances where the apostles, authors of scripture refer to their congregations as their children.
Matthew 23
8“But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers.
Now that we are all brothers can you get mom to send me a cake please, thanks.
What you are doing is very honorable. Keep following your good conscience
Look steph, we been trying to destroy the catholic church for thousands of years. Find the teachings in the catechism so a catholic doesn't have anywhere to swirm and run.
Here's a link to silly catholic beliefs
Catechism of the Catholic Church
Definitely do not study history or early church fathers from a unbiased source.
Make sure all your sources are baptist approved.
"to be deep in history is to cease to be protestant" Cardinal Newman.
Like taking a gun to your faith's mouth and pulling the trigger. Don't read any ancient christian early church fathers.
.
Is that all you got?
So tell me, God was going to allow a lie to be perpetrated on Christendom for over 1500-1600 years until your guy came along, thus damming to hell millions upon millions of believers who lived in those centuries? Pleeeease!
The Universal (Catholic) Church was given authority, Apostolic authority, which has been passed down from the Apostles to Bishop, upon Bishop, upon Bishop - right to this very day.
"21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained".Jn 21:22.
And there you have it, real power, real authority given to the Apostles by Jesus Himself who were assembled together, who in turn passed this power on to their successors just as I pointed out earlier. It's the only thing that makes sense.
And not to forget Matt 16:19 which says: “And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” Again, real power and real authority, both things passed on to their successors which is exactly how it was looked at by all Christendom for over 1500 years.
We have stayed the same, it is you folks who have gone in a different direction.
37818
Well-Known Member
The problem of false gospels date from the 1st century.
The Apostle Paul wrote the 1st century Roman church, ". . . of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . ." -- Romans 1:16.
The disagreement over what is true regarding:
gospel
Christ
salvation
believes
And those meanings in Romans 1:16 statement.
37818
Well-Known Member
That is your understanding. The church Christ is building is the point of disagreement. That church has existed since it began. Its Apostolic authority has since continued to be the handed down NT alone. Which since the first century irregular churches have denied the true teachings in one way or another.
Yes, and what is the "Gospel of Christ"? Nothing less than believing that He is the Savior, that salvation comers from him. And how did He become "the Savior" you ask? Why only because of His death on the Cross and his subsequent resurrection which is exactly what the Holy Catholic Church has been preaching for the last 2000 years! We believe this truth so much that it is the epitome of our worship service, the re-enactment of that very thing at every Mass, just like He said for us to do.
23 I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body, which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes. 1 Cor 11:23-26.
And that my friends is the full form of Christian worship. The full truth and the fullness of all holiness. We accept it and actually do it, while many Christians it is sad to say reject it and ignore it.
37818
Well-Known Member
The telling of the gospel is not the gospel itself. Grace excludes works. Works do accompany the gospel, the works are not part of the gospel, but do accompany it.
The Judaizers taught another gospel which was not another, but added the Law to grace. Adding the works which accompany the gospel to be paet of the gospel is another gospel in the same way.
". . . the gospel which I preached unto you, . , , By which also ye are saved, , , , For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . ." -- Corinthians 15:3-4.
". . . of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . ." -- Romans 1:16,
". . . For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, . . ." -- Ephesians 2:8-9.
". . . But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. . . ." -- 2 Corinthians 4:3-4.
Actually, there are four Gospels - Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. They tell the salvation story from four different perspectives and I believe every one of them. I also believe and my faith tradition also teaches everything you posted under your opening paragraph. We has been at this for a long time now, way before you and your guy ever came into this world. I hate to break it to you, but you are not the Grand Poobah concerning matters of faith.